The Middle Ground

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16/09/2012 at 17:23
10k race for me today came 5th in 34.28
Looking forward to GNR reports
16/09/2012 at 17:27

Stevie - Great to see you back in PB shape. Sub 28 is very respectable indeed 

Rob - A very low key mention of you time there! Pretty impressive - remind me how that compares to recent times?

Forgot to mention my brother ran a 7 minute PB for a 1.43 today - so he obviously didn't need my pacing help! A better run for me today. 10K at 8m/m. If I can manage something something similar most days it should at least help maintain some fitness until I'm back fighting fit.

16/09/2012 at 17:28

Mr V, I reckon something's definitely up if you felt so bad after the break. Hope you get some answers soon, but nice to see you felt a bit better today.

Congrats to YoungYoungPup on a new PB. He seemed to be enjoying the run when I saw him at half way.

SG, great stuff. Congrats on the new PB. Enjoyed your report (although it was tough leaving this thread to read it)

Well, I was meant to start running again today, but starting drinking at 1pm in the afternoon the day before is apparently not the best preparation. I'll start again tomorrow ...


Edited: 16/09/2012 at 17:29
16/09/2012 at 17:33
Afternoon all, stuck at South Shields trying to get a Metro back to the car! My phone won't lete post on Facebook for some reason so thought I would check in here.

I will post up a report when I get on a computer later but I clocked 81:56 today. Was very comfortable at 8 miles on 6:04 pace and still on for sub 80 at 10 miles but my quads turned to stone and I had a disaster over the last 5k. Not through lack of effort just didn't have the legs for the job. Still over 3 mins off my previous soft best and a 10mile pb en-route. Think I need to run higher mileage to convert up to half from my 5k and 10k times. Question is do I go for a even 81 in 2 weeks?
16/09/2012 at 17:36
Simon - this pic would suggest YYP enjoyed himself.......

I think the dog looks fairly happy as well.

SG and Rob - stunning times from you both.
16/09/2012 at 17:55

thanks folks...

Well done Rob, we expect no less from you.

YD, it's a big pb for you, even with a disappointing ending. Sheer guarantee plenty more to come. Shame you can't do CP to join the party.

Simon, are you not racing at all for a while?

Mr V, your brother is in that glorious position where you can lop massive amounts of time off. Make sure he really treasures the day. Good luck with your mini recovery.

Edited: 16/09/2012 at 17:56
16/09/2012 at 18:23
YD, SG and Rob, excellent work all.

YD, As said earlier, think sub 80 next time is a given.
16/09/2012 at 18:55

YP, great pic

Nice one, Rob.

YD, a nice big PB there, so well done. Are you sure increased mileage is needed? it seems like an obvious answer after what happened, but other explanations are possible: perhaps there was too much tiredness in the legs or you hadn't done enough at race pace. I don't know, but it's probably worth thinking about. I'd go for sub-80 next time if I were you.

SG, my next proper race is XC on October 20th. I'll be spending the next four weeks doing mainly easy running and strides and building mileage before "proper" base training starts on October 13th, when I'm going to run an all-out effort at Dulwich parkrun to gauge fitness (it won't be a sub-17 attempt as originally planned when my break was going to be after CP)

16/09/2012 at 19:15

Good running robT, SG and YD.  YD more to come in the future for sure!

alehouse, I can imagine what the first watches were like as my first one wasn't that special, but I liked it because it was a pretty colour

16/09/2012 at 19:16

Mr V - glad you felt a bit better today - onwards and upwards 

16/09/2012 at 19:54

A question for Phil, or anyone who knows about turbo training...

I bought a second hand racing bike to use on my turbo seeing as I can't run as much as I would like in the hope it will help me to maintain and even build on my fitness.  I did my first session today, which was just 30 mins of no particular structure, although my HR was higher than it's been for a while.  It was quite tough!  Anyhow the question is are there particular sessions I could do that would benefit my running?  I hope to eventually get back to twice a day running, but still use the turbo for a bit of extra, but for now it's replacing my second run, which I'm holding off doing as my leg is not ready for it.  Also I can only run slow at the minute so am hoping  by getting my HR up on the turbo will stop me losing some fitness.  What do you think?

16/09/2012 at 20:34

 Well it was the race of my life today (apparently )

It was an interesting build up because after the progressive 10 miler @6:32 avge on Tuesday it felt like there was every chance of a good run today.

Then yesterday I did a pacing job at Leeds parkrun. It ended successfully with a pb reduction from 18:19 to 17:59 for a young lady in form but it didnt strike me that 5:45 miles were feeling all that comfortable to be confident of maintaining 6:06 over 13 miles today.

So while sinking the 3rd pint of Boddingtons last night, in true Alf Tupper fashion, I told YD that I had no gut feeling one way or the other how it was going to turn out. But then this morning I went for a SLOW jog at about 5:30am, and by slow I mean 14+ mins/mile, and strangely on the back of that I then got the feeling there was a good run coming.

On to the race and the plan was just to flow through the first 5 miles without too much concern for the pace, work hard through the next 5 miles and then a kitchen sink job at the last 5K.

Miles 0-5: This section had to be comfortable if a sub 80 was going to be achieved. Trying to keep everything smooth with no sudden changes in effort levels the miles went by in 6:07, 6:12, 5:57, 5:57, 6:08 for a 30:22 opening 5 miles.

At times it was amusing as YD and myself were barged out of the way by people in a rush. When one guy pushed through YD said 'we'll be seeing him again at 7 miles'. He should be so lucky  - he was treading water by 3 miles! And that wasnt an isolated incident.

Anyway, 6:04 average for the first 5 miles was inside what I had expected but it was now time to start grafting.

Miles 6-10: The rain was now coming down and was very welcome. It was also now down to a very sparse strung out field so it was easy to get your head down and get into a zone.

This section went by in 5:44, 5:40, 5:43, 6:04, 5:56 for a 29:07 2nd 5 miles.

I was determined not to let the fact that I'd just thrown in something like a 17:46 5K in the middle of a half marathon convince me that I was tired.

Last 5K : The time for the 10 mile mark differed between the Garmin reading and the roadside clock. The Garmin said  59:29, the roadside clock 1:00:00 - the difference being that we got nowhere near the racing line in the early stages.

So at least the mental arithmetic was easy, a sub 20 5K for a sub 80 HM.

Time to get down to business. It was getting hard now but one mile at a time.

The 11th mile felt tough but when I saw a 6:03 come up that was an immediate 'job done' moment. I wasnt going to lose the sub 80 from there so it was now time to start thinking about sub 79.

The 12th mile included the sharp downhill but it was definitely feeling like a going to the well moment now. A 6:09 told me I was slowing but only 1 mile to go, it was now man or mouse time.

It went on forever (as usual) but I could see the gantry in front and thought that was the point to turn off onto the grass with about 400m to go. However as I closed in on the gantry it then dawned that I was still in the elite window (up to 80:00) and so the ganty was the actual finish.

A final surge saw a last mile of 5:59 and a last bit at 5:38 pace for a 1:18:41 finish.

I couldnt have given it any more at all today but am looking at all the stats and thinking that was one of those races that will live long in the memory and was therefore worth all the effort.

Edited: 16/09/2012 at 20:36
16/09/2012 at 21:09

Spectacularly splendid effort PRF!  Lovely to be improving as a veteran ain't it??  I like the Boddingtons pre race refreshment approach too - and if it were me I'd have some more tonight!

A very fine 'soft' PB for Y D as well.   Well toughed out at the end fella.

Cracking 10k Rob and well placed, any prize booty?

Hilly.. worth asking TR about turbo training, he has had one in his garage for years.

Mr V.. really sorry to hear you've got one of those mysterious bugs, best of luck in sorting it out.

Close but only half a cigar at the York Parkrun yesterday.  I had a real bash at breaking 20 mins including leaving my eyeballs on the grass verge near the end!  Just fell short with 20:06 I think (results aren't up yet).  Still, that's my best P/run yet and another 11 secs off my time from 2 weeks ago.  Did a steady 4m last night & another 10.5m today.

16/09/2012 at 21:17

prf - brilliant. A really great, strong race and a big barrier broken. And what a way to do it!

Hilly, she's taking a week off regardless of how it feels so she's hopeful it should make a big difference. 

Stevie, great race from you too, what a relief after the trip to get there!

And a good race from rob too!

YD, shame you couldn't push on in the later stages but a pb is a pb so congratulations and you must be confident that there's a sub-80 there now.

YP, I love your dog 

Wardi - so close! Hopefully you can get into the 19's soon.

I start back training tomorrow, just getting back into the routine this week w/whatever lightish quality I can fit in, then back into it proper the week after. 

16/09/2012 at 21:41

Now had chance to catch up after all the self indulgent nonsense.

Minni - Nice to meet you today and put another name and face combo together. How did you get on?

YP - Interesting what you say about junior YP and a natural instinct for pacing. I dare say it is a natural skill that is there to be utilised as long as it is nurtured early. Hes obviously enjoying himself.

And impressive mileage haul for you this morning.

Stevie G - Nice to see you racing again And straight into PB bagging, very impressive!

You're obviously pretty good at this racing lark, you should do more of it.

Rob - Excellent 10K today, you seem to be very consistent with your 10K times.Any prizes for 5th? There must surely have been a vets prize of some sort....

YD - As already said, congratulations on the new HM PB and the new mid race 10 mile PB. Plenty positives and plenty feedback to help you towards the next set of improvements.

I must point out as well that YD and myself were given drinks on the house in a pub not far from the finish as 'the first Great North Run finishers to cross their threshold' I think I was as chuffed with that little offering as much as today's time.

Now for an interesting stat:
I was 93rd V45 in this year's VLM and yet today I was 7th V45 in the GNR, a similarly sized race. That simply doesnt stack up except to show just how little interest the faster end of club runners have in the GNR, which I think we knew anyway!

Edited: 16/09/2012 at 21:42
16/09/2012 at 21:46

thanks prf, enjoyed your race report. I hear the GNR isn't exactly a pb course either, so extra quality result.

I Look forward to see the "Big 3" of you,BR and Hilly at Cabbage Patch all being well.

16/09/2012 at 21:47

Quite a few well dones!
Wardi (nearly!!), YD, StevieG, Rob, and PRF:
your GNR seems very similar to mine from (quite) a few years back. (think I was 43 or thereabouts). Ran the first 10 k in 40 minutes due to traffic, and then the next 11 in around 42. The first couple of miles were a nightmare! And yes, its a long way from 10 to 11, and even further from 12 onwards along the sea front.
Hope the Boddingtons was real rather than the manufactured keg stuff that seems to be on offer these days! Today should set you up nicely for Thursday: anyone else going to wish Ron"happy 74th"?

16/09/2012 at 21:55

Wardi - Sorry, missed your York effort. Trust me 20:06 at York is worth sub 20:00 at Hull so onwards and upwards, you're back into sub 20 territory!

16/09/2012 at 22:08

Hilly - I do a few base training type sessions in the Autumn and winter that are as follows, I use a HRM to give me something to quantify the effort but sometimes HR is low if you are tired but over time you'll learn "by feel" too:-

10min w/u, 20min 70%max, 15min 80%max, 10 min 85% max (I cant hit this most mornings though), 10min w/d

10min w/u, 45min 80%, 5 min w/d

I suggest that you play around with the timings and HRs though as turboing is tough at first and you might find the sessions harder or easier than me. If you get fed up you can do things like 4mins effort/1min easy, or 8mins effort/2min easy with a w/u and w/d. A combination of turboing pretty hard and running easy seems to keep my running going along nicely during the Autumn and Winter.

........its pretty boring stuff at times though !

16/09/2012 at 22:15

Some splits and thoughts:

Splits                      HR         %HRmax
06:09.7                  165         84.62
05:57.8                  171         87.69
06:02.9                  174         89.23
06:04.2                  177         90.77
06:14.6                  178         91.28
05:53.8                  177         90.77
05:56.6                  176         90.26
06:00.1                  177         90.77
06:15.8                  182         93.33
06:17.4                  180         92.31
06:28.0                  180         92.31
06:37.3                  179         91.79
06:39.9                  175         89.74
01:17.9                  176         90.26
21:56.0                  176         90.26

Right, splits laid bare, according to Garmin I went through 10 miles in 60:45, though I think my Garmin was off today, mile splits were coming up before on course markers. So by calculations based on my garmin measuring 13.19miles today I think I went through 10 miles in 61:05, so only 5 seconds slower than target, but this is a guestimate. I know from memory I was at half way in 39:55 as I looked at my watch when we went by the half way point sign. Same calculation as above gives me the same time. 
So pacing was ok, legs felt excellent until the 8 mile point breathing was very very comfortable. I am surprised by the HR reading being as high as it is at 5, 6 and 7 miles as I was holding the pace back and was actually thinking I would be smashing 80 at this point. At 8 miles the course turns right on the John Reed Road, bit of an uphill drag and a headwind (only one encountered today conditions were tip top otherwise), I realised pace was off here so relaxed up the hill thinking I would be back on pace when we levelled out, but when we did level out I couldn’t pick the pace up.  My quads started to tire very quickly and increasingly stif

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