The Middle Ground

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23/09/2012 at 06:36

I hear that Young Pup. Preparing for my usual sunday 7am job. Doesn't look too inviting out there, and it's only September

23/09/2012 at 11:25

16.75 undulating off-road miles done this morning, with overall average pace of 08:55/mile and avg HR of 138bpm.

I did it as a progressive run, and really enjoyed experimenting with how my HR varied as I sped up.

Miles 1-5 : avg of 09:40/mile - avg HR of 128bpm
Miles 5-12: avg of 08:32/mile - avg HR of 140bpm
Miles 12-15: avg of 07:54/mile - avg HR of 149bpm
Miles 15-end: avg of 09:34/mile - avg HR of 140bpm

I also managed to finish just before the rain started

23/09/2012 at 11:29

So I did manage to get out on Friday, after dark, no headtorch required because I headed down the dull main road.  It gets dark early as well as light late.  And because it was late and in the only gap I could fit, I did it too fast.  So I had to do a recovery yesterday morning (only 20 mins, Simon) and then a later easy, after dark again!  Hopefully today the rain will ease up for an hour and I can see something whilst running.

Tautology is a pretty nice word.  Oxymoron is almost exactly as good.

Nice racing at the relays!  Good to hear that leg's recovered, Hilly.

WAVA is a nice scale to use, DrD, but why try to label it?  I like the table as is.  Once you try to label the scale you get issues over rarely run distances - whether the records are quite as hard as the well-paid distances.  And you have sprint vs. distance, popularity, good generalist vs. good specialist.  Just leave it as percentages and everyone can compare.  Of course there are those natural levels we all aspire to, the nicely rounded ten percents, and the slightly quirkier fives.

23/09/2012 at 11:40

Well done on the relays, Brilly.

YP, nice run even if you had to hang around in the dark. What's your Max HR? Did YYP beat the virtual racer yesterday?

Ratzer, glad to see a more respectable recovery run time.

"Comfortably hard" is my favourite running oxymoron.

I did Nonsuch yesterday at MP intensity. Just over 22 minutes compared to 20 for the same HR at my peak. Ugh!

"Long" run this morning around Richmond Park of 9 miles though and I can feel the fitness starting to come back now.

23/09/2012 at 12:30
Simon - I think my maxHR is 187 and my resting rate is 48, so an average of 138 for the run is around 65% WHRR, which is nicely aerobic

YYP did indeed beat the virtual racer yesterday, and we came in at 35:01 per my Garmin. He also enjoyed it again which is the main thing, although whether that's because of the running or the cakes and hot chocolate is a moot point

Good to hear you can feel the fitness starting to come back...

Hilly - hope the leg feels good today after yesterday?
23/09/2012 at 13:14

YP - nice run, from what I have read, if you like doing progressive long runs I would recommend you do something like: 13 miles + 3 miles hard.  Then progress to 12 miles + 4 miles hard and so on.  For half marathons and marathons a great peak workout is 6 miles easy + 6 miles at HM pace / 11 miles easy + 11 miles M pace.

Simon - let me know tomorrow what your plans are regarding Sandy Balls.

Illness has ruined training for me this week.  I think mileage will come up to about 58ish.  I have still not got over it yet, and things will be crazy busy at work next week because it is the end of a quater so I am still going to take my planned recovery week.

I am using this 10 day period of forced downtime as a sort of end of season break, given I have been training since February. 

Here is my reflection on the training for my relatively short year:

I do not want to sound boastful, but I am really proud of how far I have come this year.  I went from being the worst shape of my life, injured and never thought I would run again in Feb, to hitting 86mpw in September

I am also enjoying running so much more than ever have before. One of the reasons why I feel no urgency to start racing again is that right now I am still in the mental state where I am happy just to run again (and eating lots of food and being slim at the same time XD ).

In my mind, I am calling Feb-September as getting back into shape phase.  And October onwards, will be my winter base training.  Potentially, I may target either the mile or 5k in the next summer.  But as my long-term goal is to be a good marathoner, I will be keeping the milage high and probably doing longer threshold runs than normal.  Can anyone else think of changes they would make in a training cycle, given the intention to step up to the marathon in my mid-20s?



23/09/2012 at 13:19
Josh Blatchford wrote (see)

Simon - let me know tomorrow what your plans are regarding Sandy Balls.

23/09/2012 at 13:59

Josh - I'd be wary of the danger of not getting out there and racing.  You can train until you're blue in the face and agonising over hitting the perfect race in perfect conditions.  For me, I would advise building in a monthly 5k time trial, possibly one of those 9am Saturday jobbies.  There is a mental art to racing as well as a physical one.  Racing frequently is an ideal way to train that mental strength.

Nice long run YP.

23/09/2012 at 14:18

I seocnd BR Josh. You need to see where you stand  and there seems to be little point in putting all this training with the view of racing marathons later in life if you're not getting the racing experience in too.  

Great to hear you're getting the racing legs back now BR. Shame it couldn't be organised better, but jumping up a few places in the team standings is a good step forwards collectively.

YP, that's a nice, strong run. How did the sub-8 section feel after 12M beforehand? 

Simon, did you do the downhill section at Richmond? That was great fun 

I also did 9M today on the usual hilly route. Picked it up to a strong steady pace in the final 2M and finished in around 70 minutes. Felt a little sore from plyos yesterday, a consequence of  having not done them for a few weeks I'm sure. 

I have to add the East District XC relays to the race list. Haven't done a relay before - really looking forward to it.

September
23rd - Spen Greenway 10K - PRF?
23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
29th - Self Transcendence 10k - YoungPup
29th - Page Cup (5m XC) - Curly
29th - Lancaster 5k ? - RobT
30th - Bristol HM – Ratzer
30th -  Redcar HM - YD

October
6th Halewood 5k ? - RobT
7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, BR, PRF
13th - East District XC Relays - Duck
14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub
14th - Cardiff HM - Ratzer
14th - Flintshire 10k ? - RobT
21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup, BR, Hilly?, PRF, Simon, Curly, Ratzer?, PhilPub
27th - Mob Match Orion Harriers Vs Ranelagh (7.5m XC) - Curly
27th Oct – Whitby NYSD XC - YD
28th Oct – Yorkshire Coast 10k Scarborough - MrV

November
4th  -  Lancaster HM - YD
11th - Town Moor 10k - MrV
18th - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV, YD, PRF
18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
18th - Gosport Half - Curly, YoungPup
18th - Preston 10 miler ? - RobT
24th - South of the Thames 5m XC Champs - Curly, PhilPub
24th - Norman Woodcock Memorial 5M - MrV

December
1st - Surrey Womens XC League 1 (6k) - Curly
8th - Dysart Cup (4k) - Curly possible
8th - Kent Count Vets XC - PhilPub
16th - Telford 10k - RobT (Main Target)
22nd - Mob Match Ranelagh Vs SLH (7.5m XC) - Curly
29th - Henty Relay (1.5m legs) - Curly

January 2013
5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
20th Jan - 4 Villages HM - Dr.Dan

February 2013
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) - PhilPub
24th March - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

April 2014 
Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR

23/09/2012 at 14:24

Nice long run YP.

Josh - it's good that you're enjoying your running and have come far.  Personally I too would encourage what BR suggests.

Simon - I'm sure the pace will come back soon enough!

My leg felt great after yesterday, surprisingly!  I thought I'd join friends for their final long run as they're doing Chester Marathon in a couple of weeks.  Again I thought I might struggle a bit having run quite hard yesterday and the lack of running miles in my legs, but we did 20 and I felt good.  The pace wasn't fast, but I was able to pull away for the final mile a bit quicker.  My leg feels fine with just a tiny amount of stiffness, but certainly not enough to warrant being called an injury anymore.  I will continue to monitor and nurse it until I feel it is 100%.  50 miles for a come back week - nice

 

 

23/09/2012 at 14:37
My God, I have something to add to the list!

I am so relieved that autumn has hit. Finished my course of steroids and things are looking promising on the asthma front. Did 22.12 at parkrun yesterday, comfortably hard, which is around 4 minutes better than recently.

I feel like things are finally starting to ease off and have had a decent week, although my right foot has been a bit odd for the past few days. I swear if this turns into something, I'm giving up! Ok, not really, but I could use some good fortune, having had the past 10 months pretty much written off.

Remarried my husband, had an amazing time in Rome and really hoping I can crack on with things now.

September
23rd - Spen Greenway 10K - PRF?
23rd - "Kirkstall 7" (trail) - Dr.Dan
29th - Self Transcendence 10k - YoungPup
29th - Page Cup (5m XC) - Curly
29th - Lancaster 5k ? - RobT
29th - Sherman Cup (Temple Park XC) - Kelly
30th - Bristol HM ??? Ratzer
30th - Redcar HM - YD

October
6th Halewood 5k ? - RobT
7th - Chester Marathon - Dr.Dan, BR, PRF
13th - East District XC Relays - Duck
14th - Great Eastern Run HM - PhilPub
14th - Cardiff HM - Ratzer
14th - Flintshire 10k ? - RobT
21st - Cabbage Patch 10 - YoungPup, BR, Hilly?, PRF, Simon, Curly, Ratzer?, PhilPub
27th - Mob Match Orion Harriers Vs Ranelagh (7.5m XC) - Curly
27th Oct ??? Whitby NYSD XC - YD
28th Oct ??? Yorkshire Coast 10k Scarborough - MrV

November
4th - Lancaster HM - YD
11th - Town Moor 10k - MrV
18th - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, MrV, YD, PRF
18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
18th - Gosport Half - Curly, YoungPup
18th - Preston 10 miler ? - RobT
24th - South of the Thames 5m XC Champs - Curly, PhilPub
24th - Norman Woodcock Memorial 5M - MrV

December
1st - Surrey Womens XC League 1 (6k) - Curly
8th - Dysart Cup (4k) - Curly possible
8th - Kent Count Vets XC - PhilPub
16th - Telford 10k - RobT (Main Target)
22nd - Mob Match Ranelagh Vs SLH (7.5m XC) - Curly
29th - Henty Relay (1.5m legs) - Curly

January 2013
5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
20th Jan - 4 Villages HM - Dr.Dan

February 2013
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) - PhilPub
24th March - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

April 2014
Boston Marathon - prf/Hilly/BR
23/09/2012 at 15:29

Josh, great improvements from you this year, well done. I'll fourth what BR said. Racing also gives you an honest evalutation of your fitness so you can plan training intensities accordingly. I don't know about others, but I have a tendency to fool myself into believing I am a bit fitter than I am.

Also, I think you should decide on a feasible (or even slightly over amibitious) marathon target for the future and make next year's goal to run that pace for x miles in a race. The following year you could aim for 2x miles, then 3x and so on. That's a slightly different way of saying make sure you have the speed you need to run as well as you can in the future.

Duck, yes I ran the downhill section. Didn't go as fast as we did last time though - not allowed in base The park was packed this morning. Seemed to be a lot of ultra runners in there.

Kelly, good news on the parkrun. Surely you can only remarry an ex-husband?

23/09/2012 at 15:53

Good to see some of the hard luck stories seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, and I also had to google tautological.

Thanks for the insight into scienceofrunning Ratzer, I agree that some of his practical advice (sessions and the like) is decent, not sure about the rest of it yet. After all this sprint work have you found your ‘easy’ pace a bit fast early in runs? Do you have to reign it in?

Hilly – excellent progress this weekend, happy to read it

BR – also good that you are seeing signs of improvement.

Kelly

Josh – get racing man! I am the same as Simon, in that after a few good training runs I start to think I am Kenenisa Bekele. Racing soon lets you know your weaknesses and is a key tool in keeping your feet on the ground and getting faster.

Nice long progressive run YP

Nice work on getting into base with a ‘long’ run each Duck and Simon.
I don’t think it will take you long to get back into a 20 minute Marathon Pace parkrun territory Simon.

Good long run for me this morning, 15.68miles @ 7:12 / mi.

I have not done any quality sessions this week, so my plan was to add in a bit to the long run. Intended session was to run 5miles easy, 5 miles steady and 5 miles at MP. Splits came out at:

7:48, 8:20, 7:39, 7:31, 7:38
7:24, 7:16, 7:13, 7:12, 7:03
6:29, 6:33, 6:27, 6:23, 6:23
+ jog cool down.

It ended up being more of a progressive effort than I had planned, but a good tough run all the same. My legs complained a fair bit during the MP section so it must have been doing me some good. Cut back for Redcar now.

Edited: 23/09/2012 at 15:56
23/09/2012 at 17:17

That's great news Kelly. What's been the problem, exactly? It's been a while since you posted last so I can't remember  

YD, very good long run, especially between 11-15! You'll breeze through a half now.

9M/75 mins is probably going to be the longest run I do for most of the next year! 

23/09/2012 at 20:25
Simon - true. I just said remarried as he sometimes asks me if I would still marry him... and then I wonder what he's done wrong. The renewal was simply wonderful and the kids looked cute. Katie nearly had me in tears when she read a poem. An equal day to 10 years ago

Duck - asthma has been the problem. It has always been a little worse in the summer, but never anything like this year. Basically since 3rd June - I remember that specifically - my breathing has been shocking and made every run feel like very hard work with fatigue, I suppose because the muscles weren't getting enough oxygen. I was running around 9.15 and it would feel like 5K pace. Had to seriously cut the mileage and loads of rest days, as I was just so knackered. Thoroughly miserable when running 7 mins slower than my pb and it felt harder.

I completed a course of prednisolone recently and my preventer inhaler has been doubled in dose for the past few weeks. Noticeable improvement since the weather "improved", ha. Easy pace has dropped back to around 8.45 this week, but apart from parkrun (and even then, it was fairly pathetic), I haven't done any paced work (incapable) since probably May.

YD and YP - nice runs, I do like progressive long runs.

Hilly - I understand your frustration completely, glad you seem to be on the other end of it. To be able to still knock out a 20 miler with all the setbacks is something else.

Josh - I completely agree on the racing front. It doesn't have to be the be all and end all, but a benchmark is always useful, physically and mentally.

Ratzer - I love reading your posts.
23/09/2012 at 22:14

Kelly, this one goes out to you.   Nice to hear you've got a parkrun in you and things are improving!

OMG, yes, YD!  Go off too fast and get to the finish too soon.  It's not something that's ever happened to me before...  I do have to rein in speed on easy runs.

Like tonight.  Actually, no, tonight happened to just work as an easy run, one of those really long Sunday runs, 8 miles.  It also showed me that I need my rest day tomorrow as I began to flag at about five miles.  This might have had something to do with the fact that from that point there's about two miles of general uphill, which was face first into the driving rain.  Two miles of that and not a lot else matters in the world, everything seems to fade into insignificance against your discomfort.  It's therapy, in a very strange way.

Anyway, yes, only 8 miles as a long run.  Hilly, you're so resilient it's amazing.  20!  But, in my defence, I have done 8 days on the trot, and most of them doubles, even if they're short.  That's been my purpose for the last few weeks, getting doubles to be regular and habitual.  It costs a lot in washing powder and shampoo, but I can get an 'empty' and a 'full' run in each day.  It might have results.  I certainly enjoy the shorter runs!

They will get longer...

Edited: 23/09/2012 at 22:15
24/09/2012 at 06:36

Also, I think you should decide on a feasible (or even slightly over amibitious) marathon target for the future

I recall sub 2:20 was the stated aim... 

Excellent progress Kelly and good solid progressive run YD.

Ratzer - do most sprinters operate off such little mileage?

24/09/2012 at 06:41

Kelly - glad to read you're back to feeling almost 'normal' again after months of not.  A friend of mine who has been asthmatic since a child has a new inhaler that incorporates the preventer and reliever together.  She says it's the best inhaler she's ever had.  Not sure what it's called, but I'll ask her.

Ratzer - Resilient = stubborn/OCD   Yes twice a day running does generate a lot of washing!  Good excuse to buy lots of kit...

An easy day today for me after my abrupt return to full running at the weekend.  The leg is fine, just a little sore, but not particularly in the area of injury, more to do with running hard as the other calf is a little sore too.  Just not been used to running hard for a while.  So a turbo and maybe 3 mile run on the treadmill today.

24/09/2012 at 08:21
Morning all,

Josh - it was interesting to read your progress report. What kind of mileage were you doing before February? Also, thanks for the ideas on other sessions for the long run.

Ratzer - good luck with the doubles and all the extra kit. My wife is constantly moaning about how much "effing" running kit I have, so I would be worried I would get served divorce papers if I told her I needed twice as much due to running twice a day!

BR - interesting comment about the mental art of racing. Are there things other than racing frequently that you think help develop the mental aspects?

Duck - I was pleasantly surprised by how my legs felt during the last 3 "quick" miles of my run, and it wasn't until the last mile when they started to complain a little bit. I was just focussing on keeping my leg turnover rate high, and trying to keep my breathing to a 4 step routine, and didn't really notice my legs at all

YD - great long run from you as well. Your splits make mine look pedestrian though

Kelly - sounds like things are on the up for you, and you must be one of the few people who are glad that summer is over and we're back to damp, cold, autumn

Hilly - whether it's OCD or just stubborn, you clearly haven't lost much fitness if you can just knock out a 20 miler having run twice the day before! Hope the leg ache is just muscle stiffness (and shock )

I'm planning a gentle 3-4 miles recovery run today, which will almost certainly be in the rain - still, maybe that's good for developing mental fortitude...
24/09/2012 at 08:54

BR, each summer season week consisted of two training days on the track, with the regular 1/2 - 3/4 of a mile of work, plus three steady state runs totalling 1 hour.  Yup, that's three runs averaging 20 mins each.  I haven't seen the winter programme yet, but mine is already substantially different, as I'm presently at 6-7 hours per week, just holding steady around 40 miles.  Doubles means my longest regular is about 4.5 miles!  Wow, it looks so short in black and white (blue).

Nothing for me today, even though I keep slipping into thoughts of what the weather will be like a lunchtime.  Must be a good day to wash everything!

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