The Middle Ground

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26/09/2012 at 16:51

Sensible to back off PRF ... too close to the big day now to take any risks. Where are you planning your sub-17 assault?

26/09/2012 at 16:54

Dr Dan - The PB chasing course is Hull.

26/09/2012 at 16:59

I was going to ask that! How are you feeling for it PRF revised session aside (which I am sure doesnt affect you at all!)?

Re: mile time, I'm as shocked as you lot are to be honest. I had no idea I was in that sort of shape, but 20:30 5k is a better conversion match I think (still that scares me too!). No chance to run one for a while anyhow so will wait and see.

Nice run Dr. Dan. Will you be depleting too or not pre race?

Phil glad you had a good time and tons of cycling will prove helpful for fitness I am sure.

YD I just do as PRF says (although a bit less protein and more carb for me as I deplete more for weight than race purposes so do it on a more ongoing basis).

Noakes interview on marathon talk was interesting, especially the bit about those who race on no fuel more than likely being carb resistant...


26/09/2012 at 17:31

As it happens today I have been doing what you describe prf. Not a proper depletion as described by Ratzer, I have had fruit (one piece directly after my lunchtime run) and some veg in my lunch but no starchy stuff. I may try and do it once a week along with some pre breakfast runs to see how things go.
As for your 17:15 target, based on today’s session you have no chance……….  
However if you beat my PB, I will just have to head over to Hull and run a 17:09, or 08 or whatever it takes. Not that I am protective over my 5k pb you understand......

Curly – if not right now an assault on sub 20 should be on the horizon over the next few months based on that mile. Either way, it’s a good indication that things are currently going well.

You should get to a meeting Dr Dan, discuss your addiction.

26/09/2012 at 19:21

Why would carb depletion help running?  Getting the body to burn fat more efficiently?

26/09/2012 at 20:51
This is probably the opposite of carb depletion, but it made me think of prf......
26/09/2012 at 22:30

Curly - In terms of Chester, I'm ready to give it a good bash. The training is now in the bag and feels at least as good as the VLM build we'll see whether that is fact or fiction next Sunday.

YD - No need to plan your next trip to Hull just yet but it might be prudent to dust off your diary in readiness just in case it is needed after Saturday.

Josh - The reasons for the carb depletion at this stage are nothing to do with fat ultilisation. In my opinion it is to enable all the other stuff (protein, minerals etc) to get properly repleted prior to a major race.

YP - She sounds like a dream McDonald's employee.

27/09/2012 at 06:45

Good running Dr Dan and Curly in your races.  I'm not reading back I'm afraid so really sorry if I miss someone else who has raced - just tell me again;-)  I'll watch my back Curly when we meet in the next race -  Cabbage Patch...  I'm not in sub 6 mile shape  myself at the  miniute!

Not a lot going on here - my legs were tired from the weekend and bit sore so only done a few miles and lots of drills really.  Going to the gym tonight, but I'm not forcing my legs to do anything they don't want at this stage.  It's a slow process even if I did run 20 miles at the weekend.  I have a tremendous amount of will power and determination at times that's why I can run 20 miles without thinking about it and because it's years of conditioning, but that doesn't mean to say the legs always like it...;-)

Keep up the good work guys and girls.  Only popping in occasionally at present as new job is keeping me very busy.


27/09/2012 at 08:48

Hilly I am thinking of aiming for a smidge of a pb at Cabbage patch so something like 72 (pb 73:08 is one of my toughest), but I wont be unhappy with a sub 75 given the rubbish year I have had - I'll still be miles behind you!

I'm sorry to hear the comeback is progressing slowly but sounds like you are keeping a level head and long term view on it!

PRF I think you are in excellent shape - lets hope it comes through to the 26.2!



27/09/2012 at 08:52
Curly45 wrote (see)
Re: mile time, I'm as shocked as you lot are to be honest. I had no idea I was in that sort of shape, but 20:30 5k is a better conversion match I think (still that scares me too!). No chance to run one for a while anyhow so will wait and see.

The best like-for-like conversion I have is this ...

23/07/11 19:34 Hyde Park parkrun ("long course" due to an event in the park)
24/08/11   6:03 Hyde Park Summer Mile

... so I'd be looking more at sub 19:30 than 20:30.

I'm not planning any fiddling around with my diet at thi statge ... more likely to cause harm than good. However, I do seem to have been carb loading for the past couple of days due to the left-overs from my daughter's birthday party on Monday. That will have to stop as of today!

Meanwhile I have a really bad back and the throat is no better ... I think I'll take a few days off.


Edited: 27/09/2012 at 08:53
27/09/2012 at 14:45

VLM confirmation through today.

Kenyans caught taking performance enhancing drugs.

Ran 40 mins this morning before brekkie and there's track tonight with Boy Ratzer finally getting to test out his new spikes.

Pretty good day!

27/09/2012 at 22:35

Pretty quiet day!

2x4x200 tonight, 2 mins between reps, 8 between sets.  About 80% was the guideline but I get the feeling that doesn't relate to MHR or VO2max at all.  I think it's about 80% of the effort you'd give to a flat-out 200.  Rough timings were 33-35s, but the last one was a 30.  Got hold of the month's schedule to compare with Sharkie's.  Slowly ramp up to two weights days on Mondays and Fridays, longer easy runs on Sundays maxing out at 35mins for this month, and regular easy running for 15-20 mins most other days, sometimes with doubles.  Track Tuesdays and Thursdays is more like 1-3 miles of work, depending on whether the recoveries are jogged or not.  Generally Tuesdays are longer efforts, and Thursdays are staying in touch with the higher paces.

So, running with dogs towing you, a help or a hindrance to running in the longer term??

28/09/2012 at 08:51

PRF.. do you remember that pleasant jaunt around Rowntree Park during the York Millenium Bridge 5k?  It looks a bit different at the moment..

Good luck with the 16:59 attempt!

Can't see the York Parkrun happening tomorrow, the access roads are flooded.

28/09/2012 at 09:13

Jeez! Wardi its barely rained down much rain have you lot had? I'll accept pavement flooding as an acceptable lack of training excuse (unlike snow, hail or anything else usually trotted out)!

Where is Simon at the moment? And Ducky?

Ratzer thats encouraging re: reps that the last one was much faster. I still find it odd how little mileage you track peeps do!

That doesnt surprise me about the Kenyans to be honest. Not that I think it improves performance massively but just gives you that little edge that makes the difference in a race situation. The pressure on them to win (rather than do well) must be huge. I would suspect doping in the UK is quite small in long distance stuff because the pressure to be world class is quite low and the numbers at the just under world class level are quite small.

Can some wonderful person dig out the wava list for me please?

Got XC tomorrow (5 miles), last time I ran 37:43 so this time I would like to beat that, but otherwise not really got any target as these are strength races rather than anything else. Its handicap but I still dont score so the only option to win silverware is for fastest times. I bet all the fast women turn up too

Edited: 28/09/2012 at 09:15
28/09/2012 at 09:24

Okay according to Mr Google this is the last one - I have highlighted those due to drop off after the weekend!

Calculator here: 

87.54% RobT (5k 16:27, July)
84.00% PhilPub (5K, 16:15, August) 
83.19% BR (10K, 34:40, June) 
81.22% PRF (10K, 36:37, June) 
80.19%  Hilly (5k 20:25, June)

79.15% forever (5K, 20:41, July)
78.83% Simon (4'26.73, August)
78.02% Duck (800m, 2'09.65, August)
76.18% Ratzer (200m, 27.55, August)
75.11% YD (6k, 21:06, August)
73.58% StevieG (5k, 17:37, June)
72.88% Mr V (5K, 17:42, July)
71.21% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:04, August)
70.55% Curly (1m, 5:57, September)
70.10% YoungPup (5K, 19:29, June) 

68.70% Darola (5K, 20:48, July)

Out of date:

28/09/2012 at 09:35

Wardi - And there I was moaning that the ground was a bit damp when the plane touched down on Tuesday night!

Curly - what sort of surface is the XC?  Mudtastic?  Got yer spikes yet?

Ratzer - Sounds like good specific work for any potential husky sled races you may fancy in the future.

No racing for me this weekend.  Had the Battersea Park 10k down provisionally for tomorrow but whether it's lack of sleep, post-holiday blues or what, I've got another gunky cold going on, so I'm probably best off staying in bed this weekend and hope I'm better for some quality runs before GER.  Rubbish!

28/09/2012 at 09:39

Phil sorry you're not feeling too good. Be careful with ear stuff - thats what caused my slide into ill health last year. Hope you can sleep it off!

Yep Richmond Park - I havent seen it since we have been back and last time it was bone dry, but I suspect it will be muddy. I do have spikes, got some waffles in the end (as did Magpie as thats all the shop had in our respective sizes - matchtastic!), but I'll wear my trainers up there and assess the course before deciding.

28/09/2012 at 10:28

Good stuff.  I'm a single spike short of having a full set of 6, 9, 12 and 15mm options with mine, so kind of looking forward to a bit of mud now.

On the ear front, I had it syringed a few years ago and it was quite incredible what came out!  So chances are I need to get this done again.  In the mean time I'm not sure what the connection is between feeling gunky and the ear, but a combination of flying, salt water swimming, lack of sleep and general debauchery probably explains it somewhere, so a bit of rest and return to routine will hopefully sort it out.

At least I didn't get done by a jellyfish.  You should've seen Matt's arm! 

28/09/2012 at 10:37

I need to check what spikes came with mine and make sure I get some longer ones for later in the year...

Ear wise - I would just get the doc to double check if you can. It only takes a few minutes and getting drops in there can really help clear it up.

28/09/2012 at 12:28

Not much happening here over the last few days.
In answer to your question Ratzer, I imagine a dog would be good for a fartlek session and that’s it
As for drug taking in Kenya, a shame, but not surprising, sadly. I have recently finished the David Millar biography Running Through the Dark (not the type of book I normally go for but it was a Birthday present), it was very good and offered an interesting insight into the route an athlete might take into PEDs. Worth a read if the subject is interesting to you.

Wardi – all this flooding has been a bit of pain, quite a few local roads have been shut round here, I hear you had it bad in Taddy?

Enjoy the XC on Sat Curly, looking forward to getting stuck into some XC myself, though I am rubbish at it!

Good you are taking it easy Phil, hope the lurgy clears for a good stab at you HM time at GER.

Got my London Marathon rejection letter through yesterday, not a surprise to get a ballot rejection, but I was more disappointed not to get a spot than I thought I would be. So with that in mind I have emailed someone at the club to find out if I can have one of the club spots. I think it’s a ballot open only to club members with rejection letters, so I should have a reasonable chance of getting in. Fingers crossed.

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