The Middle Ground

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06/10/2012 at 17:00
" As for outing Dash and a thread day out, the two could be combined at the Norwich Half in March "

Hey? Outing me? No thanks. My closet is far too comfy. Silk-lined, candles, the lot..

P.s Doing GER next week. The race, not drugs from Scotland.
06/10/2012 at 17:57

I sure do Phil  It's quite a satisfying feeling passing runners who flew by you at the start. My pacing strategy means I basically never get passed in races anymore (last time I got passed was the Bromley 800m on the line, before that was my 5k pb I think which was back in May!). 

Sounds like the right decision with your calf. They can often turn into more serious problems (mum thought she'd got cramp a while back & had to miss Crathes).

Josh, that's good to hear (my shoe bore-ness is paying off!). 

Josh Blatchford wrote (see)

 At what distance do your times start to drop-off?

Erm... about 400m! 100/200 translate into slower 400 times and everything after that is well out of line (5k pb predicts ~65 I think). 

06/10/2012 at 21:37

Healing vibes to all those with niggles!

As I said on facebook Dan, hard lines, however you have plenty of good races to look forward to, so no need to waste all those good fitness gains. Chin up.

Dash - 13th March 2011 City of Norwich Half, was that the rescheduled 2010 race after bad weather?

Duck – cracking bit of racing over the last two days, any plans to get to a fast 5k course to see what you can do?

Wardi -  some nice consistent consistency being shown by you at the moment.

2ND rest day in a row for me today. I could feel some creakiness in my legs after my 13 miler on Thursday so thought a couple of days off wouldn’t do me any harm at all. It’s been a tough three weeks with two hard raced half marathons in my legs + some good training. Heading out for a long run with a buddy tomorrow, he was talking about adding in a few quicker miles in prep for a Marathon he is running at the end of the month. So should be fun, fresh legs should help!

06/10/2012 at 21:58
Tom - I had Morton's Neuroma between Jan and May this year, confirmed by MRI and ultrasound. It began fairly acutely and I had convinced myself it was a metatarsal stress fracture, having already had a heel stress fracture the previous year. I think I took a week off and tried to run again, but the problem remained - this was after seeing my usual physio who said it wasn't a sf, but hadn't diagnosed MN, thought it was an inflamed tendon. It was quite odd as nothing had changed in my training, infant I was running less after an ill December, no new shoes, surfaces, etc.

I think I then had another 7-10 days off, XT in the meantime, but again it was the same when I tried to run again. Mine started almost straight away. I would feel "flickery" and nervy, with odd moments of feeling fine once, what I assume was the nerve being shifted. I endured it. Longer into a run, and especially on the XT machine, it would feel numb, but I never really got the stone in the shoe feeling that is very common with MN.

I eventually sought an MRI as I was still concerned with a sf and my husband had some healthcover at work that I could take advantage of. The fact that the claim then got rejected because it was referred by a physio and not a hospital did nothing to improve my mood!

From the people I spoke to, they basically said MN wasn't something I could make worse, unlike something like achilles damage, etc, so I just decided to keep running, despite the discomfort. Like Wardi's ailment, it eventually just disappeared on its own. Mine was the opposite of yours though as it would immediately be sore, but then sometimes ease off later in the run. The thing is though, both scenarios could be true of the same issue, so it goes back to your point about how to diagnose and when to get on with it and when to back off.

I think if I waited until I felt 100%, I would never run! Having been though a serious bout of ITBS in 2010, heel stress fracture in 2011 and then the MN this year, I feel like I'm more able to get a grasp on what is just a niggle, fatigue, etc and when to stop. Just last week, I had an odd feeling in my right foot for a few days that I thought could have potentially been the beginnings of PF - and that would have really screwed with my head as having finally got over the MN, I maybe had a few good weeks in May and from June until now-ish (still lingering), I've struggles with asthma - anyway, I continued on, prepared to rest if it got worse, but thankfully that has disappeared.

I've totally lost track of the point of this post, completely waffling, sorry!

Oh, I had the MRI first and the ultrasound second. I was still having issues when I got the ultrasound and she was really rooting around and pressing while investigating - lo and behold, I think the next day, it was totally normal and remained so from then. I had a follow up with the consultant the week or so after and he said it could have been something as simple as the probe shifting the offending nerve. So - maybe get yourself a good foot massage .

Whilst I consider myself cured, apparently the neuroma will always be there, unless it is surgically removed. I know Dash experienced a flare up at a later date and certainly for myself, things like being on tip toes reaching for something and getting off balance, coming out of the shower barefoot (ha, it would be odd to come out of the shower in shoes) and my foot shifting, certain scenarios, I'll still feel what I call that "flicker" feeling. I haven't had any problems with running with regards to the MN since May though... And still wearing the same trainers, so it wasn't caused by that in this instance.

Sorry if this is completely incoherent, it has been a long week!
06/10/2012 at 22:04
Can't edit on the iPad, but that infant typo in the first paragraph is annoying me. That is supposed to be infant. There, I knew it wasn't me and I hadn't typed that, it is iPad autocorrect. In fact - who knew it is not a single word
06/10/2012 at 22:09
Kelly, great memory! I had a flare up about a 9 months later but it went away after 2 weeks of cross training.

YD, I ran the Norwich half in March which was just as well as I was in Birmingham rocking Weller and shandied up when the November one was cancelled due to snow and ice.
06/10/2012 at 22:19
Progress. 21.37 at parkrun today, down from 22.13 two weeks ago (didn't really try last week as had XC that afternoon), very windy, as usual. I would have felt over the moon to see 20.37 for the effort used, but it is what it is and the downward trend is very pleasing. Still over 2 minutes slower than my best, however 5 minutes faster than it was during my really bad asthma phase only a month or so ago .

Today was parkrun 97. I'm going sub 21 or bust by number 100.

YD - I don't think I congratulated you, we'll done at Redcar!

Mr V - certainly seems like whatever you are doing is working. What changes have you made? Is it going gluten free? Anything else? Glad to see you happier, you deserve some good performances for the work you put in.

Curly - you too. I know you've also had a difficult year with illnesses and that one thing after another spell, so time to be rewarded for your perseverance. Oh and my mile pb is officially 6.24, actually, I don't think I have ever knowingly run a sub 6 mile, so get cracking on that sub 20 5K

PRF - have a good one tomorrow.

Dr Dan - really sorry you had to pull out of Chester . The training won't go to waste though, go and smash the sub 40 at Leeds.

Sorry for missing others, I'm so tired I can't think, or type, straight. Think I'll open a bottle of wine (second one this year?!) to put me to sleep.
06/10/2012 at 23:29
Kaysdee...welcome to neuromas-are-us. Very helpful post, which has given me a bit of confidence going forward. Your post seems to encapsulate all those uncertainties and problems we have with mystery injuries.

Injurywise, I've had some belters over the years. In hindsight what's of interest is not the injuries themselves, but the stupidity of allowing them to get to the state that they did. That's a combination of the "running through brick walls" philosophy that underpinned my early years (hope you're reading this HIlly)....three years of undiagnosed and untreated planter...thingy, that had me hobbling across the bedroom every morning!

Back in 2004 I had a really bad pain uo the outside of my shin. My regular therapist didn't get near to resolving it, so after a fruitless four weeks and a recommendation I went elsewhere... the new guy cured me on the couch by recognising a misallignment of my ankle and manipulating there and then. Two years later the same wonder-physio failed to spot a collapsed sacro-illac joint and had me spending nine months of pointless piraformis stretching and pain stricken running. Such is the nature of injury diagnosis I guess.
07/10/2012 at 09:30

PRF - Good luck today, I'm expecting great things! Glad to see good conditions for you.

Dan - Sorry to hear that. It's quickly onto some speedy reps to convert that endurance into a flying Abbey Dash.

Kelly - Great to see you with some progress finally. You'll be the happiest person on here that Summer is now well and truely past! Any target races before the end of the year? Yep just going gluten free. Three weeks now and I already feel tons better. I'll have done about 60 miles this week wheras just before giving it up I was having to walk during a 4 miler. Feel a lot better generally as well - was so tired and fatigued beforehand. I was sleeping like 12-13 hours a night when I got the chance!

Tom - I wish I had known what I know now when I started out running. I've had 2 bad injuries in my time - both entirely preventable. I also think a good physio is worth their weight in gold. I visited many useless ones before finding someone who really knew their stuff. 

07/10/2012 at 09:34
07/10/2012 at 13:14

A great time from prf! 

The Duckinator wrote (see)

prf, i'll predict a palindrome-tastic 2:55'52 for you.

And I'll just leave this here for the time being 

YD, Aberdeen is fast! It's just never not windy. Might see if I can pop down to Edinburgh at some point. Unless anyone wants Dulwich, part 2...

What races are next for you? Once the training benefit of the last month or so comes through you'll be immensely strong. 

Kelly very promising stuff. Are you looking forward to #100? 

In terms of injuries I've only had one really bad one, which was when I tore my achilles walking up a hill  That was less than a year after I started running. Then the ITBS incident too which despite only putting me out for 2 weeks seemingly set me back 6 months in terms of fitness. 

Anyway no running today but did some plyometrics at the track. Weren't the best ever after a hard last 2 days but I got it done and it's all training in the bank. 

07/10/2012 at 14:41

YD, are your rest weeks going to be complete rests?

Duck, maybe you should take up gambling. Can you predict me a sub-4 1500 next year

Good progress, Kelly. Mr V, it is quite amazing that a diet change has had such an effect on you.

07/10/2012 at 15:15

Dash, your posts never fail to amuse me. You provide some light relief amongst the seriousness of the thread at times

Quick report, and then I'll get out the way as prf is the big man today.

Southend 10k, 80mile drive down there in overcast miserable weather. Opened the car door, quite hot.

Worked hard, and I think it's a sign you've paced it spot on, when noone overtakes you after 0.5km, and you continue to overtake up to 9k.

Therefore, not too down with a 35:41tbc

I feel in sub 35:20 shape (current pb) at minimum, and am sure a good crack at sub 35 is on the cards. Certainly what the 27:56 5miler suggets.

However, today, with the fairly warm temperature, 1km on stoney gravel, and 3k into fair wind, it wasn't to be!

Nice trip though, and would recommend the race, cracking seaside views.

Unfortunately It was a bit of a loner trip down there, but with someone it could be a whole day job

I look forward to CP being the exact opposite, potentially about 15-20 runners I either know in the flesh or from this and the other thread!

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 15:17
07/10/2012 at 17:56

Quick report, to see if I can get it in before prf.  Did a 4 lap xc today with more lumps than my old gran's custard and I was swimming in that muscle-burny stuff before lap 1 was over.  Managed to hold on but no idea of placing, timing or length, just a simple feeling of still being absolutely knackered.  I think I'm going to have an easy week.

Starting now.  G'night!

07/10/2012 at 19:07

some interesting thoughts on injury diagnosis and treatment - thanks for those as I am I am not alone in wondering how experienced runners do things differently with niggles and injuries!

Amzing racing twice from Duck I expect your conversions to get tighter over the winter rather than drift away if this is any indication of form!

Well done Stevie on a good time on tough day. I think you havent been quite on top training form recently so to get so close to your pb is good.

Viper sounds like good progress on the diet front enabling more training and less sleeping. My step dad is unable to eat gluten and the difference when he stopped was amazing. I would take a multi vit for a while as you may well be deficient in  few things if you havent been absorbing food properly!

Rest day for me at Morghan's request as I am cold infested... all snot now though so its on its way out! However, cold aside, I did run a year best at parkrun yesterday with 22:04, at Bedfont which is a tough course and was  puddle fest, I ran the last 0.15 (its over distance) at 5:46 pace so plenty left to give. Looking forward to an opportunity to race 5k at some point.

Well done on the long stuff Ratzer, must have been a shock to the system!

PRF awesome running! Looking forward to your report.


07/10/2012 at 19:09

Ta Curly, i think it's only right, i post a laugh at my own expense.

Coming to the end of the race today, I ducked down what I presumed was the last turning, and saw a clock saying 35:10. I sprinted to get under 35;20 to try and steal a pb, but noticed no timing mat.

The fools had put an additional clock in.  At 9.88km

Why would they do that?

07/10/2012 at 19:14

That happened in the mile race too Stevie except it actually was the finish, so my photo shows me still going well over the line!

07/10/2012 at 19:16
SG, Cracking effort and as much as I'd love to proffer insight it just ain't gonna happen!
07/10/2012 at 19:22
Curly, great effort but surely if you are finishing at that pace ( at 5k) you could go faster to begin with?
07/10/2012 at 19:28

Dash, come on son, you know the racing laws by now

  • You can always go faster in a race than in training
  • you can always muster some kind of faster finish than what's just gone on, however knackered you are.
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