The Middle Ground

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13/10/2012 at 11:26

Ratzer - Hope the meds sort you out and your flying again soon.

Josh - Blimey that sounds nasty . Hope you are recovering well.

14 miles with Newcastle parkrun in 19.10 this morning. Didn't feel anywhere near 5k intensity but becuase its so long since I've done any fast stuff I couldnt access anything faster. I'm sure that will come back pretty quickly though.

13/10/2012 at 16:01

Josh: doesn't sound like fun! Hope you are back running shortly. Have read three Armstrong books, including it Not just the Bike one.

I notice a few Barnsley Harriers doing quite well at parkruns this morning!

Other news: having discussed matters with urology nurse and Achilles consultant, am going to have the Achilles op on 17th (next Weds) and the prostate tests the following week. It was generally thought that a few days longer to wait on the prostate front was not a significant risk. Not looking forawrd to the next couple of weeks or so!

13/10/2012 at 16:42

Best wishes alehouse and hope the next few weeks turn out to be not as bad as you feel it could be!

Josh - sounds awful.  Hope you're recovering well!

Well done Mr V!

I had a good run myself this morning.  After having no reaction in my leg from my efforts this week and no significant pain, just some dull aches occasionally, I decided to do a long run.  Not just any long run though, 18 miles hilly with the hilly Barnsley parkrun in the middle.  Felt tired, but strong doing the parkrun in 21.29, which is only just over a minute off the best I've done on the tough course.  I was really craving a mars bar on the 7.5 miles back home after though  The leg still feels okay, so I feel I am now at the stage where normal training can resume, but it will be single runs for a couple of weeks so as not to overload too soon, then introduce some doubles again.  I also plan on a month of hills to regain strength and pace.  Feeling much more optimistic after this morning that I will at least be able to complete Cabbage Patch next week.

13/10/2012 at 20:49

Phil, I don't think I was inspired but you're quick enough to warrent a look at any shoes you get 

Hopefully whatever's in your system will be gone soon. That 3M tempo's still good though.

Wardi, nice k reps, looks promosing for a sub-20.

Mr V, what size feet are you? I'm a 12 and it's so difficult to get shoes in my size - any that we have on stock that are my size AND on sale I have to get! Good training there.

Josh, that's utter crap

Hilly, nice going! Sounds like a sensible plan.

I'll race report below - I've had a good day 

13/10/2012 at 21:14

2 races today - parkrun in the morning and the East Disctrict XC relay in the afternoon in Dundee. Plan for parkrun was a tempo-style effort around the 20 minute mark.

We set off and I fell back into about 15th initially and kept everything very easy. Ran for the first mile with a few runners I know are around the 20 minute mark and the first 2k went by almost casually in 3'58 & 3'47. I'd slowely crept up into about 7th by the halfway point where mum was marshalling, and with the parkrun points being reset today, feeling like I was running around MP intensity and third place only about 200m in front I basically had an "oh, f*ck it" moment 

Next k was 3'46 and I was steadily gaining on 5th & 4th without dipping too far into the reserves. Third place kept stopping to tie his laces  so I passed him quickly and put in a 400m surge to get onto the back of 4th and 3rd. Stuck behind them and 4k went by in 3'50. I knew I had the pace to beat them to the line so mentally I had third in the bag, so I sat back and with 200m to go I lit the afterburners - garmin has me running the final 0.15M (240m) in 35s which is 4:04/m and I finished third in 19'10

So a good first race of the day. Intensity probably around threshold - at the start of the third mile I had a talk with 3rd as he had problems with his laces and I was talking in full sentences to him. 

Then it was time for the 60M jaunt down the coast to Dundee. Camperdown Park was pretty wet from the rain and hearing from the others there were some pretty muddy corners that had to be taken carefully or you risked falling flat on your ass.

I was the anchor for the second team. That was a problem as by now the field was strung out so it was essentially a time trial, something I'm not especially good at (I need others around to run well). I started my leg with about 20s to make up on the two runners in front and a similar gap to the runner behind.

I was feeling reasonably well and the first K was on the grass so wasn't too slow. I didn't tihnk at this point I was catching up with the runners in front but the runners behind weren't closing either. Second K was more muddy and with a few treacherous corners and by now I was starting to feel pretty tired but breathing was still ok.

Third K was almost totally uphill, with a few twists and turns and I often was running without anyone in sight - quite hard mentally. I was now losing ground to the runner behind but as we exited the trees for the final K around the grass section of the park I was closing on one of the runners in front.

I was working pretty hard now but my legs were about shot. I was gaining on the runner in front and being gained on by the runner behind! The final 800m was downhill so I tried to open up and gain some ground. With 400m to go I was almost on the heels of the runner in front and could hear the runner behind - probably about 40-50m. With 200m to go I kicked past really, really hard - basically everything I had. Finished in 15'07, with the runner I'd passed about 5s behind neck and neck with the runner who'd been behind me.

K splits were 3'41/3'58/4'17/3'11 (950m), for 6:10/m avg. Felt the morning parkrun catch up with me and my legs were really tired. Breathing  was ok but I couldn't push any harder. Finished 80s slower than one of our runners who runs ~16'40 so it's possible I ran the equivalent of a low-18 5k this afternoon which would be great. I'll need to see how I compare to others on the results, but a great strength booster and a nice start to XC 

Think I'm going to lie down for a while now!

Edited: 13/10/2012 at 21:16
13/10/2012 at 21:19

Mr V – 14 with 3 @ 6:10m/m is a good workout. Get that 5k below 19mins as part of a long run with a bit of MP and you have a cracking sub 80 HM workout IMO! I will be doing something similar before my next HM. Nowt wrong with your fitness, good to see.

prf – any thoughts on that 10 mile race?

Excellent days training Hilly!

Brilliant running there Duck, by eck you’ve come on this year! You were saying you are not good at time trialling, doesn’t read that way to me!

7.4miles before breakfast this morning, felt good, not had a good running week so it was nice to see. I intend to get more pre breakfast runs in now, been slack on that front for a while.

14/10/2012 at 00:20

Duck- good day's work!

Hilly - nothing like easing yourself back into training!

MrV - nice mileage and things looking good for you.

Josh -ouch!

Good solid training YD - asalways!

A 20:00 parkrun at Leeds today. Hoped to be a bit quicker but I'll take it for now. Based on my 2010 log, I need to be sub 19:45 at Hyde Park by now to make a sub-40 conversion at Abbey Dash. So still some work to do!

14/10/2012 at 08:26

Duck - excellent racing.  Days like that just give you such an incredible high

Dr Dan - I did a week of 3 and 4 milers

YD - what time would your pre breakfast runs take place?  Ours always have to be at around 5am, which at the moment I'm missing, but I bet I won't once they start up again...

The weather looks great out there this morning.  Nothing nicer than running in the autumn sunshine, so will be heading out soon for a little trot with friends.

14/10/2012 at 11:01

Thanks guys. YD yeah I've come on a hell of a lot this last year, 18 months ago a 19'19 5k had me hurling at the end and now I can run that as a warmup for an XC race.

Hilly, yeah I had a fantastic high yesterday after I'd finished. I didn't even mind I had no power steering in the car...

Dan, hopefully you can find 15s with an injection of quicker work. You did it once so you can do it again! 

Well my legs are utterly shot. Could only muster 3M this morning so I'm taking tomorrow totally off - no plyometrics, nothing more intense than walking to the bus. PLanning next week to be a low volume/higher intensity week to get some quicker sessions in. Last 4 weeks have been 36, 34, 33, 35 so a good first month. 

14/10/2012 at 11:01

Hilly – anything less than 6miles can be squeezed in with a 6am start on a School day, as long as I am organised i.e. have ironed my shirt the night before….... For the most part that will do during the week, I am planning on doing 2 or 3 early runs in the 4 – 6 mile bracket, then an early longer run on Sat morning (7-8 miles) with long on Sunday.

Keep the faith Dr D, it could still be on!

XPOST - not suprised your legs are shot Duck

16.33miles with 5 faster miles in 6:31, 6:30, 6:31, 6:23 & 6:20 for me and a buddy this morning. One of those lovely cold crisp sunny winters days, great for running in once you are warmed up, though I did have to wear 2 layers + gloves!

Edited: 14/10/2012 at 11:02
14/10/2012 at 12:11

I reckon it's still there DrD, if you switch to a bit of faster stuff.  You've got the endurance.

Nice racing, Duck!

I like your planning, YD.

First run back for me this morning after a week off.  Not perfectly comfortable, so definitely not on form, and the fact that I was feeling it in my legs after a week of nothing is strange and suggests something really off.  I'm sure it'll all be fine in a couple of days.

Glad you're getting something sorted, alehouse, even if it's not something to look forward to!

14/10/2012 at 15:05

YD, great run! You've earnt Sunday roast today 

Ratzer, I could feel it a bit after 2 weeks off so I don't find it totally susprising but still best to be safe if you think something is up. 

Anyway the results are in from yesterday - 15'08 individual leg, 2nd fastest leg on the team, 10th fastest Fife time out of the 24 runners, and 22nd team overall. And now here comes the fun part.

I searched the results for everyone who ran a 15'0x, and PO10 stalked the hell out of them to see some comparable road times from this year (didn't include parkruns unless they were PO10 approved). On average showed most were running 5k in mid 17'xx and 10ks in mid-to-low 37'xx. There was also a 3:00'34 marathon, a 4'53 mile and a 29'45 5M in there too. 

I know XC can level the field to quite an extent so I am in no way taking this as proof I can run those times, but still.... not bad at all 

Edited: 14/10/2012 at 15:08
14/10/2012 at 16:54
Afternoon all,

Best wishes to those on the injury bench, great training to those who are ploughing through, and congratulations to those who are racing strongly....

As always, I'm failing to keep up

In my running news, me and YYP did Nonsuch parkrun yesterday, and he took just over a minute off his PB, with splits of 10:23, 10:50, 10:17' plus a little bit. I was very proud of him as we had decided that the plan was to run at a steady pace and see if he could do the whole thing without any walking breaks, which he did brilliantly.

I love this photo of him, as it really looks as though he was concentrating....

I also did a fabulous hilly 14 miler over to Box Hill with the dog this morning - and agree with the comments re fantastic running weather ( although i will admit to wearing gloves and a buff).... I tried a new route from my new house, and only got half-lost twice
14/10/2012 at 18:19

Good racing Duck

MrV - you're coming back strong

YD - that's a real old-school run.  You'll make massive improvements. 

Encouraging morning YP

Ratzer - you've got the thread virus

Alehouse - what do you reckon on the nearly £50 entry fee for the Manchester Marathon?

Alehouse - indeed.  As Barnsley Runner swapping from Barnsley Harriers to Barnsley AC I considered it fitting to run to Barnsley to do the Barnsley parkrun.  No real competition and a 45 second victory without really extending myself.  The time of 18:17 is generally considered to be worth a minute on a flat one, so with at least another 5 secs per mile in reserve on the day, plus the fact I had run 7.5m to get there I reckon I could be back under 17 on the right course.  Things coming back together now after a long period of `who's pinched my 10 secs / mile'?

14/10/2012 at 18:29

No gloves, hats or buffs here, fabulous winter sunshine meant none were needed  13 miles for me with 2:30, 2:42 and 2:49 marathon runners, so you can imagine it was no 'walk in the park'  I did manage to stick with their easy pace for the first 10, then faded slightly on the last 3, but given my proper come back week, not a bad effort.  Definitely an easy day tomorrow...

Dr Dan - I still plan on attacking the sub 40 at Abbey Dash and I'm not quite in your shape, so as YD says keep the faith!  I was originally hoping for sub 39 based on running low 39 earlier in the year, but then the strange virus (similar to what Viper and Ratzer now by the sounds of it had) wiped me out and then the injury, so if I could get to sub 40 by AD I'd be one happy lady!

YP - well done to YYP on the parkrun pb!

Nice running YD, some strong pace in there!  On the morning runs, 4-5 is about what we get in - it all adds up at the end of the week

Ratzer - hope whatever it is you have clears soon.  If it's the strange virus a few of us seem to have had it seems to clear after about a month of very strange lethargic, high HR, aching jogging (running properly was just too hard) which was horrid really! 

PRF - hope the ankle is okay!

14/10/2012 at 18:50
The Duckinator wrote (see

I know XC can level the field to quite an extent so I am in no way taking this as proof I can run those times, but still.... not bad at all 

Is a decent guide though isn't it.

You'll always get the "specialists".

I lost to a lady last year by a good minute over 2 or 3 xc races, who doesn't get within 5mins of my times on a flat road half marathon ....funny old game.

(ok i was a little underpar, and she was in stonking form fresh from winning some offroad ultra, but still)

14/10/2012 at 19:24

Evening! BR (of the BAC not BH variety): I hadn't clocked the price of the Manchester Marathon, but I have clocked that if you put the code MEN5 in you get £5 off.  I understand that the glitches of last year have been ironed out, certainly in terms of the course. Good to see you (and Hilly) running how's the job going?!

Duck: nice!

YP:  getting lost is half the fun on a long run!

14/10/2012 at 21:08

Duck - Superb racing.  You're turning into prf. 

Hilly - excellent progress, must've been nice to make proper use of this weather.

YP - Well done to junior.  I'm planning to get over to Box Hill before the duathlon next month, although running could be tricky in cycling shoes + overshoes. 

YD - Good practise for your LRs incl. MP there. Nice pace.

Ratzer - I recommend chocolate and wine. Not sure of their medicinal qualities but they've helped me get through these viral times. 

I'm continung to train through what appears to be still lingering, so definitely no regrets about pulling out of GER today.  40-odd miles of cycling yesterday on track and road, and 15 miles this morning at 7:30/m.  Felt OK but I reckon pace/HR is still about 20-30 secs/mile out.

Kent AC had a good GER today on the whole.  Bagged the team prize, and two more of my regular training partners have secured VLM Champs qualifying for the first time.  We could easily have 8 or 9 on the Champs start next year.  That's a very nice marathon training group.   

15/10/2012 at 09:14

Duck – A 13 normally but usually 14 in running shoes. Great to see the progress you have made. It’s also interesting to see how much your longer distance stuff has improved given the MD focus.

YD – My garmin had my average pace at 6.07. Made me realise I’ve got to extend that pace by 10 miles if I want to get sub 80 at Brass Monkey. Plenty of work to do then I guess  You seem to be enjoying those tough long runs at the moment.

Dan – A sub 40 might be tough then but at least you have the experience of having done it before. That might be just enough to help you get there.

Ratzer – That was how I felt on my first run back. Hope you sort it soon.

BR – Nice to see you running strongly again. What do you think was the cause of your lost 10 secs a mile? Virus?

Phil - At least you are still training ok. Hopefully you'll be good to go for the Cabbage Patch.


15/10/2012 at 09:49

Hello all - Haven't read back since my last post, but a quick glance over the last few days gives a brief overview! Get well soon PP, Josh (ow!) and good luck with everything Alehouse. Good running YP jr!

I stopped posting over the summer as I was rarely at home, and then realised that I had been pretty much addicted to Runners' World! So I hope I've broken the addiction and will ease my way back in gently.

I managed to keep my running ticking over through most of the summer holidays, but in mid-august sprained my ankle and couldn't walk properly for over 2 weeks, let alone run. I've slowly built up and should be looking at my first 40+ week this week, got my first 10 miler in for ages yesterday, and a first interval session for ages this morning. No racing plans as yet - it'll be a while before I'm race fit again.

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