The Middle Ground

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28/10/2012 at 17:08

Well done Stevie.  I did Great South when I was quite new to running a few years ago and remember it being very windy along the final 2 miles.  On a calm day I bet it's super fast, but on a windy day it's like somebody holding onto your clothes and pulling you backwards

Ratzer - I find true MP doesn't really happen until nearer the time of the marathon when you're well trained.  Personally I just run and look to do a pace which feels for x number of miles and then see what that pace comes out at.  Mind you there's more than one way to train...

YP - sorry things didn't go right at the parkrun.  Hopefully nothing too serious and you'll be back after a rest day.

Phill - excellent long run after your cycle yesterday.  I can imagine the colour of your cold fingers having seen them at CP!  Certainly was cold yesterday!

17 miles for me today before heading down to Wales, where I sit now looking out over the Welsh countryside  Endurance certainly stays, that's why I'm able to go out and run over 15 miles when I've done little since July.  My pace isn't too hot, but hopefully that won't take long to build on.  I can still feel a niggle when running, but it stays a niggle and doesn't get any worse when running.  I thought it might yesterday when I did Hull parkrun as I went out quite hard, but the fact I was able to run again today with no difference definitely means things are near enough fixed.  Parkrun yesterday was very windy, freezing and lots of wet leaves, so was pleased with 20.16, which hopefully means on a better day sub 20 shouldn't be too far away again.

One thing I'm noticing at present though is my breathing is quite bad.  Needing my inhalers a lot as I'm finding I'm gasping even at a slower pace done today. Yesterday after the parkrun I couldn't stop coughing due to the strain on my chest.  I'm not sure if it's the cold weather or a slight drop in fitness causing it, so will monitor over the next few days.  I took my peak flow today and it was quite low at 350, then when I'd had my inhaler and left it an hour it was up to 400.  So something to keep an eye on.

28/10/2012 at 19:43

Decent effort in less than ideal conditions Wardi.

YP smart call that, foam rolling will help.

Decent effort Stevie, worth plenty considering the wind I would think.

Cracking mileage on both the bike and run Phil.

Good to see Hilly back running some decent mileage and a decent time at Hull.

Ratzer – interesting thoughts on MP, I would have thought running aspirational paces at lower volumes (say sub 6 miles is fine). It might be better to run more to effort when doing longer stints at MP or at the back end of a long run.
I will post some more details on my marathon plan later this week, it will be interesting to compare notes. I will be doing a fair bit of aerobic capacity (threshold) work early on in the campaign before moving onto Mara specific closer to race day.

Well my sore throat seems to be easing a bit. I went for a short 4m run tonight and it felt ok. So hopefully, I will feel 100% this week ready for a decent crack at my half mara pb on Sunday.

In other news my training partner won the Town Moor Marathon in 2:54 today. He says conditions were tough, almost like a cross country race at some points and the wind was also putting in an appearance. He posted his splits on my bookface page if anyone is interested. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on how the race unfolded Kelly?
Same to you Minni, when I posted yesterday I only skim read on my phone and was under the impression you were marshalling, anyway, how did it go for you today?

Edited: 28/10/2012 at 19:44
28/10/2012 at 20:29
Minni was running and did very well. I will let her reveal her story.

Dan - it was rough, or maybe that's because I was standing still for hours on end. No, it was exposed, which is always the worry there and whilst the ice had gone, there were some very difficult stretches. It has been very muddy lately and the gravel paths are difficult anyway. I didn't see the grass hill but can imagine it was a mess. Some of the runners were covered in mud splashes up to the top of their thighs.

It was really difficult to keep track of runners, especially with 5 laps, but I was marshalling about 0.25m into the start of each lap, so was able to watch the progress. The first 3 men set off quite quickly and Steve was in 4th place. The positions didn't change by the start of the third lap (10m+). The guy in 1st place had quite a lead by now and looked strong.

1st looked very relaxed and your mate looked focused but not as flowing as the leader. I think it was at this point that I stuck up a conversation with his dad and we had quite a long chat so that was funny, small world.

At the start of the 4th lap, Steve had moved to third and second place was still quite far ahead. 1st was even further ahead and looked very strong indeed. I thought he had it in the bag. I don't recall seeing the guy he had overtaken for quite a while but couldn't work out if they were slowing down, or your friend was speeding up.

I saw them begin the 5th lap and by the time the leader got to me, the gap was probably 0.15m and the leader wasn't quite as chipper as he had been but he still looked in control. Steve did look to be tiring but looked very determined. It was shortly after this point that I texted PRF to pass on his position to you and I still wasn't sure if he would catch him. There was a long gap to third and the previous groups had long spread out.

Not long after, the race organiser cycled by and said the course record may go, but I wasn't sure who was leading. I could see the start/finish from my position and kept looking at my watch. His very proud dad then dashed by from another vantage point and informed me he had taken the leader. He would be at the finish any minute and some runners were starting their third lap, felt really sorry for them as it was cold. I saw him come into the finish and noted my watch was 2.54 something but wasn't sure what the record was so didn't know if he broke that. I'll be interested to look at his splits.

As for the women, the winner had a big lead from the off and was never in any danger but Minni later said she was going for around 3.03 and won in 3.17. Again, not sure if it was a big blow up or if she adjusted her target. She certainly still looked very strong at the start of the 5th lap (21m).

Minni herself looked very much in control and ran her own race and I knew she would work her way through those who had set off too fast.

I still think I should do this marathon, but it just looks so unpleasant!
28/10/2012 at 20:34
Just checked the female winner on Fetch and she has some extremely impressive times and was coming off a 1.26 HM.

Forgot to mention, the front of the race was quite strung out and there was only one group working together (around 6-10th place), which had disbanded by the third lap, so it must have been really difficult as it was essentially a solo race for most people.
28/10/2012 at 22:18

Looking forward to hearing Minni’s take on proceedings….

Interesting what you say about the race Kelly. Steve was saying on facebook that he never got into his rhythm, so you saying he wasn’t flowing matches. Sounds like he dug the win out with some good old fashioned determination. Good on him.
As for doing the race, I will do it if you do it  

29/10/2012 at 00:32
Great to meet Kelly today and well done Steve. The only time I saw him was on the first lap when he was in 4th place. From there on in every time I had a chance of seeing those in front the leaders were too far ahead.

I ran my own race. I hadn't marathon trained and although this was only going to be a lsr I knew once I got the the start I'd want to give it me best shot without killing myself in the process. First lady was off in the distance from very early in and for the first three laps I was in 5/6th position. I felt confident I could work my way up and did this on the third lap. I think I got into third position by the end of the third lap then by the start of the 4th I knew I couldn't catch second but also knew the person behind me wasn't a threat unless anything went terribly wrong. I ran the last 10-12 miles on my own but I felt really comfortable with my pace and have to admit I really loved the entire run, which almost passed too quickly.

The course was windy and muddy but the reception from the marshalls and the organisers was as warm as ever and this counts for a lot.

3rd female in 3:25 and first v40.

I think I can honestly say that the marathon is the only distance I'm confident over and the only distance I'm not complete shite at!!!
Edited: 29/10/2012 at 00:38
29/10/2012 at 07:07

Well done on 3rd place Minni.  Enjoying a distance and feeling confident about your ability over that distance goes a long way to making you good at it! 

29/10/2012 at 09:09

Kelly – I actually really enjoyed the cross country but like you say it was ridiculously muddy. At least you didn’t have to do 3 laps!

YD – Good result for your club mate then! There were some quick guys way off their normal times so no doubt worth a lot more on a ‘normal’ course! It was certainly windy when I went for a run as well so I imagine the town moor was bad.

Phil – Nice volume there. You are going to be an aerobic machine if you keep this up

YP – Hope it’s nothing serious, sure you did the right thing dropping out.

Stevie – Well done again and maybe you would have run a PB were it not for the wind. At least you know the last one wasn’t a fluke now

Hilly – To be close to sub 20 despite having not done much training since July isn’t too bad I’d say. Looking promising that you are nearly fixed anyway.

Minni – Well done, sounds like you really enjoyed things “I really loved the entire run, which almost passed too quickly.” Don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that about a marathon before

Enjoyable cross country for me on Saturday. Proper course with lots of ups and downs and knee deep mud! Even with spikes I was struggling for grip. Club handicap tonight. A good result would give me a chance of top points scorer but given current fitness I probably won’t get a great finishing position. Anway this month is looking good training wise as it should be my highest total of the year and some decent sessions in the last couple of weeks as well.

29/10/2012 at 10:39

Mini - impressive marathon!

YP senisble ... you'll live to fight another day.

Nice racing Stevie!

PhilP ... supermaaaaan!

Hilly good to hear you're able to do the big miles and still run 20ish at 5K, despite all the disruption!

Good mud-bathing efforts from Kelly and MrV.

I did the Harewood 10 mile trail race yesterday. Not a course to worry about getting a fast time on as it's hilly and winding, with sections through woods and muddy fields. There was some riddiculous mud yesterday... quite a few folk took a spill. Most of the final mile is a slog up a big hill which is a pretty cruel way to end a hard 10M race. Anyway, all good fun and it ticked the box for me as I needed a hard endurance test. I managed 75:39, 4 seconds faster than 2010 - back then I managed 19:44 at Leeds parkrun the next weekend . Would love to see if I could repeat that on Saturday but not sure I'll escape the house as we have visitors staying.

My son managed 5th in the 2 mile race (3rd in category) in 13:07 ... it also involved running up most of that horrible hill which was pretty tough for some of the younger fun runners.

29/10/2012 at 13:52

Hello all, YD invited me to this thread a month back so ive been lurking a while now. I occasionally post on sub 3 but i dont think im fast enough for that just yet!

Im in to a bit of everything, cycling, karate and Running wise  tough fell races and fast flat pb courses. 

Ive attempted a bgr and failed so that still lingers on. I did Snowdon at the weekend and came apart at 16-20 with my legs tightening up, calves then going up through knee to hamstrings. So a course pb but not too impressed with my 3.37. Any tips on aleviating tight calves and hamstrings? Foam roller perhaps?

Leeds 10k next hoping to get back to a low 37 which will be a seasons best then ive entered Brass monkey. Thi swinter im planning to up my running mileage from around 30 a week by dropping speedwork (which i think tightens me up) in favour of slower running and building a base like i used to for the cycling. Think im capable of sub 1.20 at Bm but need to up the miles i think and get used to consistent pace running. 

As you were! 

29/10/2012 at 14:29

I had an enormous post... which only a few lines posted and now I can't get it back  

Very abridged it was: well done to all racers at the weekend and good training from the rest. 

Had replies to Phil & Ratzers posts and now I have to go remember what I said 

Edited: 29/10/2012 at 14:31
29/10/2012 at 15:14

Dan – Looks promising. If you can equal that 5k time it starts to bring that sub 40 into play at Leeds.

Nosemi – Good to have you posting. Yeah a foam roller should do the trick. If you get into the habit of using one regularly it works wonders. Hopefully I’ll be joining you in a sub 80 attempt at the BM. What's your PB at the moment?

29/10/2012 at 15:24

Minni – sh1te at other distances? I seem to remember you running a pretty swift couple of half marathons recently!!!! Good effort at the Town Moor on Sunday btw, were you a little tipsy perchance last night?

Mr V – good to see you enjoying some XC, I missed mine on Sat, shame as it would have been fun!

Dr Dan – good effort there, plenty good fitness and strength benefits to be had doing that kind of race. Good comparison stats as well.

Good to see you popping in NOSEMI. Not able to diagnose, but you often hear about lower leg issues coming from weak glutes and hips, also from a lack of flexibility in the hip, glute groin area. It wont do you any harm to introduce some work on this area, if you do a core routine add in some front and back lunges, glute bridges, clams + a load of flexibility work and see if it helps. I would put my bottom $ on a physio telling you to do this stuff, even if it isn’t the cause of your particular issue.

For the rest of you NOSEMI runs for a rival club in the next town over to me, parkrunfan may recall him as he was involved in the little group we were in over the last kilometre at the Melmerby 10k this summer. He beat us both that day!
Looks like all three of us will be locking horns at the Abbey Dash again in three weeks

Come on Duck, get retyping

29/10/2012 at 16:11

Mr Viper 1.24.20 something from memory at bm in 2011 i think. Had hoped for faster that day to.. In fact i always seem to hope for faster 

Hi YD, What are you hoping for at Abbey Dash? 

Steve must be running well at the moment, he was always a pretty good cyclist to. 

Strangely on day two after the marathon i have know real muscle soreness which is suprising as i was struggling during the run. hmmm

Edited: 29/10/2012 at 16:12
29/10/2012 at 16:40
Y D wrote (see)

Minni – sh1te at other distances? I seem to remember you running a pretty swift couple of half marathons recently!!!! Good effort at the Town Moor on Sunday btw, were you a little tipsy perchance last night?

Tispy?  I was hammered.  Too many bottles of wine followed by shots till midnight....

29/10/2012 at 20:50

NOSEMI – yep Steve is on form at the moment. As for the Abbey Dash I am aiming for sub 36 minutes.

Minni – multiple bottles of wine and shots on Marathon legs, harcore

8.68miles fairly brisk for me tonight with about 3.5 miles of fartlek
Felt good to blow the cobwebs off, no bad reaction from my sore throat, so all good.

30/10/2012 at 07:15

Mr V - like the sound of your xc

Dr Dan - well done at Harewood.  We did it last year, a nice course with a bit of sting in it's tail in the final mile!

Welcome NOSEMI and well done at Snowdonia.  I plan on doing that one next year!

Having a lovely time in Wales despite a few car problems making us have to change plans.  DId a small run yesterday around old childhood haunts and will be heading off out in a moment for a few more miles just to keep things ticking over.

30/10/2012 at 09:00

Hi Hilly, Cant reccomend Snowdon Marathon enough, One of my favourite races.

YD you must be training hard and getting some results then as we were around 38 at melmerby or was that a bad day for you? Good luck with that time. I will be delighted with 36.59 but dont think i am there just yet. 36.36 is my pb which is 2 years old and i took most of last year out to concentrate on the bgr. 

Got a massage last night from Jelley legs (the yorkshie running guide) Feet and legs are great today so going to get back to training today. Ive had 3 weeks off the bike now so i will start the commute again tomorrow as well. 


30/10/2012 at 09:06

Minni, well done, and I echo the comments about feeling good about a distance.  I've always felt good about HMs and the couple of Fulls, but never about the shorter stuff.  Still, practice should make perfect...

Good result, DrD.

NOSEMI, hi, and welcome in.  Tight calves?  Don't run intensely hilly marathons?  I can see how good your time would have been if you hadn't had problems.  That's a club outing annually, that one, and yet I haven't done it.  Perhaps next year, but not as a race.

40mins easy for me this morning.  Looking like a really lovely day out there.  Club session tonight has me debating sprints or MD.  3 500s and 3 250s or 8 400s.  I bet I end up doing the sprint session.  I shouldn't, really I shouldn't, but I enjoy the session and the company, and Boy Ratzer does the sprints.  It's a strange and tenuous connection, but I reckon I can blame not shifting to MD on car problems...

30/10/2012 at 09:17

Nosemi – Similar to me then. Mine’s 1.24.11 but also set back in 2011 at the GNR. So hopefully I should have moved on significantly from that kind of time come BM time!

YD – Looking hopeful that you will be ok for Saturday’s sub 1.20 attempt. It would be very nice to get the sub 80 sub 36 double. They were always my big targets as they used to be the qualifying times for rankings. Still plenty of work to get there though! (for me not you)

Club handicap for me last night. Being 2nd last to set off when you aren’t really fit means solo time trial time! I ran alone for the first 2 thirds then started to pass a few. Struggled in the first half with splits of 6.06 and 6.18 but brought miles 3 and 4 home in 6 dead for both miles. Definitely easier when you aren’t running alone. Average pace of 6.06 for the whole run which was 16 secs a mile slower than last time I ran it back in January. Felt pretty comfortable but no pace in the legs at the moment. So just 9 miles to extend that pace by for BM time  . Still its progress from the parkrun 2 weeks ago which was run in 6.07 pace and obviously a mile less distance. I think the big gains will come when I finish base and start hitting the race specific sessions. At the moment 6 m/m pace feels moderately comfortably but without any fast sessions my legs won’t go faster than that.

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