The Middle Ground

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02/11/2012 at 11:33

Morning everyone, been a bit busy recently so no time to post. We're getting a brand new run lab installed at work (gait analysis never looked so good in HD) and I also have more new shoes. I guess some things are just meant to be.

Josh, been trying to keep an eye on how you were doing and it's great to hear everything has been successful so far. I imagine you've been told this by any number of people, but take as much time to recover as you need. Hope everything will continue to progress well in the right direction!

alehouse, no so good  sending healing & good prognosis vibes.

Ratzer, the floats are just fast relaxed to maintain momentum, so probably a bit inside 800 pace. I've been advised to do the 150s as the final 50 requires less acceleration, hence more time at max v. It's just a case of cutting out the drive phase as much as possible (which you have mentioned a few pages back IIRC).

YP, sports massages are awful if you don't stretch  

I stretch an awful lot and I do think it helps with injury prevention, if everything is loose then less chance of something pinging. 

October stats for me of 133 miles, 3 races, no pbs but 3 good races all the same for different reasons.  Speaking of races, I'm off to race 3k down at the beach. 

02/11/2012 at 11:51

Don't know what my October stats were - I think the last log went on the fire when the temperatures dropped.  Estimated 100 miles with week+ off through illness, 3 races, no pbs unless the X-C was actually 10k in which case I took about eight minutes off my pb...  (My only 10k result is from about 5 years ago, a hilly, multi-terrain 10k when I was recovering from a knee op.)

Don't do massages, except with tennis balls.

Duck, understood, and I can see the purpose of that.  Also a very nice exercise on form maintenance when the acid starts to bubble up!

Lots of nice miles from everyone suddenly, almost as though the injury and illness stories have spurred a burst of enjoyment in training!

After 40 mins yesterday morning, went with the MD group in the evening rather than do the Oregon circuits with the sprint group.  10x300 with 100 walk recovery (about 60s) with times bouncing around between an early 54, to 57s and 58s, then back down at the end to a last three of 55, 54, 52.  As a first attempt it wasn't too bad, but slightly easy at the start so some gas left at the end.  Probably going to spend this month switching sessions, sprint and MD, before settling fully down into MD for Dec.  5k for Jan, 10k/HM for Feb, MP for March, Taper...

02/11/2012 at 12:50

I'm in York for a couple of day's next week anyone suggest any good runs?

02/11/2012 at 15:11
Hilly: no target races, just going with the flow until next spring, when I hope everything will be about 30 secs a mile quicker. Next May I move up an age range and would hope to be at 80%+ WAVA. Then I'll target a few 10k/10ms.

PhilP: I just added up my September miles they came out at 232 - slightly more than my October miles. To date this year I've run 1588 and if I can hit 1812 miles for the full year then it will be my best and most uninterrupted years running since 2006, total miles for that year being 3861! This years running has been steady and unspectacular stuff, which is really what is needed right now.
02/11/2012 at 16:21

Ratzer, only problem I can see with progressing with MD through winter is that unless you stick with a group that's peaking for indoors you might find speed endurance sessions a little on the thin side, and more geared towards 10kp stuff and cruise intervals, with only the odd glycolytic session to keep it ticking over.

In the theme of miles, yesterday I officially retired my Mizuno Wave Mushas, after almost 2,500 miles of running. They've seen me through a number of unforgettable (and some forgettable) moments so I shall keep them in the cupboard somewhere as a momento.

Speaking of unforgettable, second race of the Proms 3k series today. Had a number of good runners turn up today, Michael again (still my series target), Jenny Bannerman, Neil Jaffrey and Chris Tomlin all turned up for a decent top-heavy race. I was feeling pretty good so hoped a decent result was on the cards, hopefully top-5 again. Weather was a slight sidewind, but aside from that almost perfect conditions.

At the start it was a usual sprint forward, Neil and Chris both shot off like it was a 400m race and had a good 50m lead on everyone before we knew what was happening! Plenty of runners I didn't recognise also passed me early on and I was about 10th after the first 90 seconds or so. Things quickly settled down and I started to make up ground, susprisingly catching up with Michael after about 800m or so and sitting on his shoulder while I figured out what to do next (I had banked on catching him at about 2k). First K in 3'24 was great for the effort I had put in so far.

Jenny and another Metro runner were about 10m ahead so I upped the tempo and caught up to them just before the turn. As we got back up to speed at the turnaround point me & Jenny started to up the pace and soon we were well out in front. The top 2 were now starting to drop back after their fast start and I suddenly realised "hell, we're catching these guys so quick we might overtake them soon". Jenny was really pressing the second K, but I was keeping up well and wasn't flat-out yet. Second K in 3'29 and Neil & Chris were now less than 25m ahead, with us still catching.

Now it was crunch time. I took a quick stock of the situation. I was running well, on course for a healthy pb and possibly another top 3. I had Jenny alongside to help keep the pace going, and with the top 2 in our sights it really was a case that any of the top 4 could still win this. I upped the intensity slightly and with 400m to go I was within striking distance. 

Now I don't know much about either Neil of Chris as runners - what their short speed is like, for instance. I had to go on what I knew, in that I couldn't hold a hard pace with them for long (so any long surge to the line wasn't going to end well for me). So when they sped up with 400 to go I was torn between going with them or holding back and playing safe. I chose the latter. With 300m to go Jenny's coach appeared, telling her to get me on the line. "Not gonna happen" I thought, "have you seen me do a 6*200 session? " 

So I kicked, really hard. Jenny fell back and Neil had now moved past Chris and I was steaming down on Chris. With 150 to go I kicked again, past Chris. Garmin has me at 4:10/m for the final sprint, and Neil was now agonisingly close to me with no race left to run. I finished second in 10'12, a 16 second pb, less than 3 seconds behind a 35 minute 10k runner.

Edited: 02/11/2012 at 16:21
02/11/2012 at 16:22


1500m splits of 5'08/5'04 pretty much show how even the pace was. This was a great race. With someone else to push the pace with I was able to get a lot out of the race, if I can really go to  the wall I might be able to run under 10, but I'm not sure if I had that kind of performance in me today. 

Could I have won today? Had I gone with the late surge, I think I could have. Probably the only thing I did wrong in the race. This series has a high standard of runners in it so to win one of the races would have been a big deal. As it happens, I'm more than happy with the result as it is. 

02/11/2012 at 17:01

Fanatastic racing Duck, I fell off the edge of my seat!  Congrats on the PB and avoiding being chicked.

Tom.. great to see you on the up, always nice when after a few barren months the patience begins to pay off.  I think you may out-WAVA me at some point in the next few months! 

Nice session Ratzer.

Rob T.. the centre of York can be very crowded with narrow paths so not a good choice unless you know your way around.  You could do worse than making your way to the racecourse down Knavesmire Road (about 1m from the centre) and following some or all of the Brass Monkey half marathon course.  Very flat & all country lanes, details here..

Maps on this page

I would offer a personal concierge service but unfortuntely I am hill climbing in southern Turkey next week, about 25 degrees over there!   Beer may also be involved.

10.5m on the local country lanes today, nothing too strenuous as I fancy a decent lung buster at the Parkrun tomorrow.

02/11/2012 at 17:06

Josh - sorry to read about your woes. Take it easy and don't rush the comeback.

Alehouse - hoping things start to improve soon.


low miles this week - been out of sorts (Little Miss CB's 2nd birthday party, half term, not sleeping...) Hoping things pick up again next week when I'm back at work!

02/11/2012 at 22:24

Duck, I enjoyed that race.  Nice one!

Simple day today.  10m, about 90 mins I think.  Just slow, chatting with Boy on his bike.  Longest run I've done since April!  And we're off down to the parkrun tomorrow for a lazy one.  21 mins for me.  That's all.  No racing.  No Wardiing.  Sunday I'll be running longer again, training with a number on.  This is coming together.

Hope things do pick up for you, cb.

02/11/2012 at 22:26

Tom - long may it continue. 

Duck - great stuff. It's like reading a Boy's Own strip, some of your race reports. 

I've just found out that the winter track cycling schedule timing has changed which, to put it simply, means I probably won't now be doing the Dulwich parkrun, but just going for a bike ride on the road instead.  I should officially be in taper mode for the duathlon on Sunday week, so mid-length 40 bike Saturday / 14 run Sunday planned, or thereabouts.

02/11/2012 at 23:09
PhilP - thanks for that, generous and encouraging as always.
03/11/2012 at 06:54

Well done Duck.  You appear to still be running and racing strong!

Tom - sounds like a good plan of action.  Hope things continue to improve and we get to see your name on a race result in the near future

Good running Ratzer!

No it's not work morning, it's parkrun that's why I'm sat on here rather than sound asleep.  Happy parkrunning those who are!

03/11/2012 at 16:05

Duck - Nice chunk to take off your PB and good report as well! Looks like your endurance is doing ok as well as your lightning speed 

17 miles for me today on a super hilly route (1720 plus feet of climbing). Certainly the kind of thing you want to be getting in during base. Average pace of 7.57 which must be worth 20 secs a mile on a flat route. I'm starting to feel quite strong now so seems like the base is working. 11 miles tomorrow would bring me to 70 for the week so I figure that has to be done 

Edited: 03/11/2012 at 16:05
03/11/2012 at 16:19

Sounds a good solid run there Mr V!

Hull parkrun for me, but really off the boil today as was the Mr.  Think it's all the driving to Wales, Dorset, Birmingham this week, hangover yesterday and then a kind of jet lagged feeling during the run today.  So not going to moan, just one of those not with it days, but at least I was there having a run, whereas a few weeks ago I'd have been bag carrying

03/11/2012 at 17:20
Great report and run, Duck. Hope this gives you the confidence to keep the gap to the fast starters down to a more manageable distance.

Still a pretty decent performance today, Hilly, as was BR's.

Looking forward to RobT's report! A pretty fast course: someone else I know ran a pb on it this morning.

Great long run MrV. Great strength builder.
Edited: 03/11/2012 at 17:21
03/11/2012 at 17:56

Hilly.. I did stalk the Hull results, very good runs from both of you considering a more than hectic week.  As you say nice to be out there. 

Good effort Mr V, a solid 17m banked!

2 degrees but thankfully light winds at York this morning.   The usual fast & furious start ensued, at 1k I reckoned I was in about 30th place.  In front of me at this point were 3 x V60 blokes and 3 girlies - what an outrage! .  I kept a metronomic 6:23/6:24 pace going and started to pick up places.  Through 4k in bang on 16:00 and managed to overhaul the 1st lady with 500m to go (turned out to be Angela Tooby, now FV50 - bronze medal in the Commonwealth Games 10k in the 90's).  Official results aren't out yet but I know I was 15th in around 19:50 so pleased with the morning's lung buster!

03/11/2012 at 18:07

MrV - Sounds like all the mileage is coming good. Love those runs.

Wardi - Nice sub-20 and elite chick-beating.

50 windy miles on the bike today, plus getting involved in most of the contents my dad's garden shed being transferred into a skip.  Good x-training.  Fireworks get-together this evening and the host makes excellent cakes.  Life is good. 

03/11/2012 at 20:04
Came 2nd to little known Liverpool harrier (Johnny Mellor) he cruised past me after 1k and disappeared into the distance beating me by 70 secs
Ran 16.42 slippy under foot so cautious on a few tight turns but generally quite pleased. Beat my training partner by 26 secs and he's been picked to run for England in masters x-country next week so no slouch
Feeling things going ok towards 10k in December when I'll actually taper!
K splits 3.19,3.21,3.28,3.22,3.12
Alehouse who was you mate?
03/11/2012 at 20:15
Pretty decent solo run, Rob! As you say, today was also untapered. Are you going to get any other untapered races in before Telford? The guy I mentioned was 13th: he is newish to running. I know 4th a little, also: 3/4/5 were all from my club.
03/11/2012 at 20:31
Alehouse - Ian is my training partner didn't know you were Sale ! We train about 4 times a week together.
Yes racing next Sunday border league (local league but quite good quality) not a true measured distance about 9.5k and following Saturday north staffs x-country all being well and finally 10k first week end December if I think I need it.
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