The Middle Ground

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03/11/2012 at 22:02

Thanks everyone. Top 4 eventually separated by 7 seconds in the final results, definately on a par with the Olympic 5/10ks  And a WAVA of 71.92% which is my highest non-track WAVA yet.

Mr V, nice run on the hills. Sounds pretty tough going, 7:40's on the flat for that long is a really strong indicator of good endurance coming through.

Hilly, was today an exercse in how many ways you could handicap yourself  at least you got to run, so progress in the last few weeks indeed.

Wardi, another great effort. It's satisfying passing so many people later on in the race isn't it? 

rob, nice going with the slippy terrain. Did you not get picked for masters XC? Given your times I'd have thought you would have been in with a big shout at least.

Well I flew into work today. In fairness I threw in strides and it's a decent net downhill to get there (it's basically all downhill for the first 3.3M or so, then only mildly uphill for the final 2.5), 7:24/m average for the 5.9M. Bring on some XC tomorrow, hopefully I can carry the recent form into it. 

04/11/2012 at 07:37

Duck - you have to say you're want to be considered I decided I wasn't after doing it last year and not enjoying it at all worst race since I started running again by far (came 15th in age group) and it knocked my confidence for quite awhile. In hindsight should have gone for it but too late now (may have banished the demons!!)

04/11/2012 at 08:23

Nice one, Wardi.  Flyer, rob!  Shame you didn't give that Masters' a go, but you're sounding confident now!  The long drives can be draining, can't they, Hilly.  Sometimes it's not the physical but just the mental side for me.  You get home and just don't feel it for a day or so.  Nice rolling, PP, and a tough long run there, MrV.  As I can't avoid hills in base I have to agree completely that you need those runs in there! 

Did what I said yesterday at Newport parkrun.  No faster than 21 mins.  No slower either!  As usual my 1k and 3k splits were way behind, and my 2k and 4k splits were almost spot on.  So there was either some variation in distance or effort.  Off to Cwmbran in an hour for some streams, stiles, roads, hills, and knee deep mixes of mud and cow-chocolate.

04/11/2012 at 09:03

Josh – bit of a trauma eh? Good that it appears to be resolved, take it easy young man!

Sorry things aren’t improving much at the moment Alehouse

Rob – shame I am not about this week or I would have popped over to York for a run. Another idea might be running on the riverside path, it will be lit up (I think) if you are running at night. Great splits and well done on the 2nd place.

Wardi – great parkrunning yesterday and enjoy Turkey!

Great miles Tom

Some good monthly numbers from Phil and YP

Bliddy hell Duck, that’s blidddy fast, when the weather looks good get to a fast parkrun and run a 17:xx will you!!!!

Good mileage Mr V, see you next Sat right?

Good effort at parkrun Ratzer, enjoy the ‘cow-chocolate’.

NOSEMI, stop arguing with Barnsley Runner on facebook, get to Middlesbrough next Sat and settle your differences there!

Hilly – all that traveling can certainly take it out of you, I hope not for me next Sat (M25/M1 on Friday afternoon )

Been a busy few days for me unfortunately meaning I am missing my half marathon today. Also missed out on getting an entry to the Abbey Dash in a couple of weeks, serves me right for leaving it so late (and number swaps are out before anyone suggests it)
I won’t be about much this week, I am heading south later today for a training course that starts in the morning, not back till Friday, so hotel living for me. Though I have written to Watford AC to see if I could tag along to one of their sessions this week and they have agreed to let me come along to their hill session on Tuesday. So at least that’s a bit of company one night, I have been meaning to start a bit of hill work so that fits nicely.
Running going ok with 11miles before breakfast on Friday, 9 miles yesterday and whatever I can fit in today around traveling, might head out for an exploratory few miles when I land tonight.
In other news, on Friday night Mrs YD drunkenly agreed to do her first parkrun in the morning, well I held her to it! Middlesbrough Albert parkrun was the choice and she got round with only a couple of short walk breaks. Not bad off zero training and a hangover, she was talking about doing a bit more running and doing another parkrun soon without the walk breaks! Result

Anyway good luck to any racers today, and all being well I will get to check in this week if I get on a computer (I dont like posting on my phone)

04/11/2012 at 12:33

rob - Nice 5k there, looking good for Telford.  We've got one guy going up for that.

Well done to Mrs YD on the parkrun debut.  A good hangover cure in itself I reckon.

16M at 7:30/m in cold rain this morning. Going gloveless proved to be the best policy, I was surprised how well the hands held out.  I think this was my longest pre-brekky run so far, and given the abundance of energy at the end, I'm definitely tempted to continue with this tactic as the length increases.  I was well loaded with ginger cake, pumpkin loaf and cinnamon swirls from last night's firework party though. 

04/11/2012 at 14:13

Ratzer, you going to get some running in at Cwmbran too 

YD, that's a shame you're missing the HM. Well done to Mrs YD this morning! 

NIce long run Phil this morning, especially on an empty stomach. Do you tend to get up and head straight out or wait for a bit beforehand?

Well I have a few things to talk about, today's race being the last of all. 

First, I'm now up to 5 and a half minutes on the plank. My core's defiantely pretty strong right now!

Second, finally got a set of scales to weight myself this afternoon. After eating very well the last month and a bit, I've dropped from 75kg to 71kg (165lbs - 156lbs), and what's more it's a healthy weight. No wonder my road times have dropped recently.

Finally, today's race. The option was the open 3M or 6M races, I chose the former. Having said that, I overheard a few people talking and one of them said "are you doing the 3-miler or the proper race?". 

Course was 1.5M, so two laps for the race. Warming up, the first 0.75M was narrow and twisty so position was key. The second half was hilly, with some very steep downhills to compensate and a decent flat section to finish. Underfoot was reasonably hard after the cold night beforehand.

At the start, I tried to go off quick for the first 100m to get position through the first turn. I ended up about 20th behind the sprint starters. Never mind. So I dropped the pace and let the first twisty section go. Tried a few surges past, but ended up getting blocked off which was frustrating. As we got to the hills I started to pick up the intensity and passed a good few people. The fast starters were dropping back now so end of the first lap I was up to 9th. Breathing was pretty good but there wasn't much in the legs.

Second lap was about picking off runners when I could. Got one soon into the lap, another towards the end of the twisty section, then upped the intensity to get past anther two to get into 5th with a K to go. 

After this point, 4th was too far ahead to close the gap to, so could only really hold station for the final K and finished 5th in 18'13

A solid graft today but didn't feel anything spectacular. Hamstrings felt pretty tight, especially in the final mile, but aerobically I was ok. Still happy to finish 5th after being so far back in the early stages.

04/11/2012 at 16:35

Good parkrunning guys!

Well done on the race Duck.  A good position not feeling spectacular.

On handicapping myself - always good to have an excuse for a poor performance

Driving can be very draining Ratzer!  I think if we had just done Wales to Dorset it would have been okay, but it was Wales to Dorset, then Dorset to Yorkshire in the same day, then Yorkshire to Birmingham on the Friday.  Wouldn't want to do a lot of driving for a job!

Sounds like a nice pre-run food intake Phil

YD -  most clubs don't mind out or town runners tagging along.  A good way to make new running friends too

15 miles this morning for me in what were really cold, but very still running conditions, the sort I like!  Would have gone further but didn't feel too great, too much curry last night maybe

04/11/2012 at 16:44

Long time no post from me.

I see Duck has been racing strongly and Josh has come through a nasty health scare.  Alehouse - all my best wishes.

I'm having a running period the like of which I have not experienced in thirteen years.  Since the Hull Marathon in April, I've managed one half-decent 10k, some ok parkrun performances and the 10 x sub 20 parkruns in a day.  However my times since June have been consistently 10 secs / mile below normal.

Yesterday I went to Hull in pretty much ideal conditions, with a guy I normally beat by 10-15 secs the only rival and managed to run a PW 17:39, losing out on `first finisher' by 15 secs.  I had gone in expecting around 17:10 on current form so was genuinely surprised to be a further 10 secs / mile down.

On today's run, as last week's long run, I faded badly after about 100 mins, dropping to a trudge and my legs have deep, deep aches in them - like I've raced.  I can only think virus.  I accept a little loss of fitness recently but many runs are becoming like death marches.

I have been driving lots in my new job (at least 2 hours / day - sometimes 3) and instead of using the half-term break to rest and sleep decided to drive to Wales, Dorset, Birmingham and Hull.  I need my zip back.  If you find it, could you email it to me?

NOSEMI - oh, so you're the guy who thinks it's not worth travelling 90 minutes to race 5k (or 3.1 miles).  I'll throw that one open to the thread - is there a maximum distance folk are willing to travel for a certain race distance?  Obviously family / work commitments sometimes take over; however I shall willingly travel 90+ mins to race an 800m on a summer evening.  Many of my happiest running memories have been through travelling to run.  Also, I remember Tom undertaking a few long drives a few years ago just to have a social training run with people in Barnsley.

04/11/2012 at 17:07

BR - good to see you posting again. It does sound like something is not right at all with you! We go through peaks and troughs as runners but this sounds like an especially big trough. 

Perhaps you are just totally burnt out, with the new job and all. Have you thought about a period of rest from running? It might be a case of 2 steps back but it might be the steps back your body needs. 

Barnsley Runner wrote (see)

 I'll throw that one open to the thread - is there a maximum distance folk are willing to travel for a certain race distance?  Obviously family / work commitments sometimes take over; however I shall willingly travel 90+ mins to race an 800m on a summer evening.  Many of my happiest running memories have been through travelling to run.  Also, I remember Tom undertaking a few long drives a few years ago just to have a social training run with people in Barnsley.


Well, I drove 500 miles to run an 800m so I don't think I'm the best person to ask  I bolded a relevant point at that weekend in London to run that 800m was a very good memory and one I'll remember for a long time. 

I think it would be context dependent for me. If there was an opportunity to run a fast, flat, certified race, in a good location (and meeting up with various thread members!) and I had the time to travel there and back, then I would give it serious consideration. I would probably tie such a race in with a long weekend break or something similar.

When I still lived in Aberdeenshire it was 40-45 mins to travel to parkrun every Saturday morning. I enjoy the people and the feel-good factor parkruns give me (both running & volunteering at them), and I'm planning a trip to Camperdown pakrrun soon to try it out (which is ~70 mins away). 

So overall I'd say I cautiously agree, but a lot of it depends on overall context.

04/11/2012 at 20:24

Duck - another solid performance, good stuff.  Re: early runs, no I feel very uncomfortable heading out straight away.  I need an hour to, er, make sure there are no stoppages during the run, and I like a coffee to perk me up a bit.

Hilly - curry and running.  Top weekend.

BR - No speculation from me.  Just hope it comes good for you sooner rather than later.

I suppose I'd be more likely to travel a long way/make a weekend of it for a marathon than a 5k, but that's more to do with it being the culmination of big training investment than the distance of the race per se.  Do 5,000m runners get more value for money for their even than a sprinter or do they just turn up and do their thing on the day?  Chichester's gonna be a fair old trek for a 10k in January. Always a good excuse to race somewhere new if you've got the time to do so.

04/11/2012 at 20:51

Phil we are doing that too! We'll see you there then

It was either that or Dewsbury... who knows how many miles that is from here! I'll travel anywhere if I have the time too. Get a nice weekend away and enjoy a new town or a visit to an old one - York being a good case in point.

Okay, things are progressing on the job front. I am likely going part time with something completely different for a while then going back to do a masters and phd next October full time (with funding). Going for a trial of my new possibly job next Friday, it will mean working some parts of the weekend, but is about 5 miles away and cycleable, part time so I can run/write and do lots of stuff. If it goes well it will be happening fastish so fingers crossed!

Running wise - ran a parkrun pb (not 5k though) of 21:02 at little stoke on Sat nd 17 miles today at 8:58 mins/mile. Feeling pretty good at the moment, lighter sessions next week to let all the speedwork bed down then Gosport the week after. Have decided on sub 1:35 as an A target but will be happy with a slower time if the weather is poor!

Great racing from Duck!! Twice, but the 3k was especially good.

Wardi nice sub 20 5k! And nice running at Newport for Ratzer - I suspect it was boggy today.

Phil no dulwich We were talking about a little junt over there in the new year...

Great milage from Tom - hope it produces the planned results.

Sorry Hilly and BR havent been able to relax as much as planned!

Sorry the racing hasnt come off for you YD but grats to MrsYD for parkrun cherry popping!

Rob wowser nice running at parkrun

04/11/2012 at 22:27

I hope this is the most recent?...I've got another race (Eastleigh) to add to next year's build up

November
11th - Town Moor 10k - MrV
18th - Leeds Abbey Dash - Dr.Dan, Hilly, BR, YD, PRF
18th - Winter Ballbuster Duathlon - PhilPub
18th - Gosport Half - Curly, YoungPup , SG (potentially)
18th - Preston 10 miler ? - RobT
24th - South of the Thames 5m XC Champs - Curly, PhilPub
24th - Norman Woodcock Memorial 5M - MrV
25th - Sandhurst TVXC - SG

December
1st - Surrey Womens XC League 1 (6k) - Curly
2nd - Guys 10 Miles(Garstang) - PRF, YD?
8th - Dysart Cup (4k) - Curly definite
8th - Kent Count Vets XC - PhilPub
9th - Handy Cross TVXC  - SG
16th - Telford 10k - RobT (Main Target)
22nd - Mob Match Ranelagh Vs SLH (7.5m XC) - Curly
29th - Henty Relay (1.5m legs) - Curly

January 2013
1st - Knacker Cracker 10k - YoungPup
5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
6th - Tadworth 10 - YoungPup
20th - Brass Monkey Half Marathon - YD, MrV, Dr.Dan(?), Hilly, Wardi

February 2013
3rd - Chichester Priory 10k – PhilPub, SG(vaguely pencilled in), YoungPup
3rd – Dewsbury 10k - MrV, BR, Hilly
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
17th - Brighton Half Marathon - PhilPub 
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan, MrV, BR, Hilly, Wardi

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) – PhilPub
10th – Northumberland Half Marathon - MrV 
24th - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan
24th - Eastleigh 10k - YoungPup

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub, BR, Hilly, PRF
28th - Greater Manchester Marathon - YD

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

 I'd like to find a 10k / 10m race in mid April as a final sharpener.... time to scour the events listings....

05/11/2012 at 10:16

Nice racing Duck and Curly.

Good long cold mileage Hilly and PhilP.

Bad luck on Abby Dash YD ... they wouldn't let me swap my number last year when I got injued.

BR - sorry to hear things aren't running smoothly. You've have a pretty relentless race/run schedule over a long period ... ever considered taking a PRF-inspired easy period of letting the body do/eat what it feels like?

Driving to runs ... I did drive solo from Leeds to Lake Vyrnwy, race the HM, and drive back in September. And I  would travel to more races ... but family time rules at this stage of life.

Sooooo, Saturday's parkrun didn't go to plan ... I struggled on Friday after the 14.3 miles on Thursday evening, and those miles were still in my legs on Saturday morning. Nevertheless, I set off with sub-20 in mind ... but I knew it was slipping away by 2K, even though I came through just about on target at 8:01. I dropped my son between 2K and 3K, but it wasn't due to me speeding up as I was 12:08 by 3K with little confidence of making up the time. Then at about 3.8K (just before the left turn onto the muddy bit for those that know Hyde Park) my son came past me like a steam train and I couldn't latch on ... I was 16:13 at 4K. The legs didn't like the final km and I came in in 20:31 (that's the slowest since June). However, I think I needed the 14 miles more than the sub-20, so no regrets.

My son managed a PB of 20:12, which is a nice number in Olympic Year. Another year of him growing and he will be leaving me in the dust ... but we are quite evenly matched on times and WAVA over 5K at the moment. We should have a few good battles over the next year so long as we keep the staus quo (i.e. me training lots and him not).  Last four parkruns...

Dad                                    The boy
20:31 69.62%                      20:12 70.21%
20:00 71.42%                      20:41 70.10%  
20:08 70.94%                      21:22 67.86% (stitch)
20:04 71.18%                      20:26 70.96%

Edited: 05/11/2012 at 10:18
05/11/2012 at 10:28

Ooh, me legs are aching this morning, but it was a damned fine LSR.  I don't know how this image is going to come out when I post this, but if you can see it, you will see that contrary to my FB posting where I said it went up for 15k, it in fact went up for 16k before coming down again for the last 4k.  How do you find a run with that profile?

http://www.fairwater-cwmbran-runners.org.uk/sites/default/files/pictures/profile.JPG

 Anyway, I started out slow treating it as a training run and running with a mate who was on injury recovery.  Problem, his calf twinged within the first mile and he sensibly decided to pull up.  That meant that I was looking for the next runner in my club to chat to.  Narrow paths and queuing for stiles meant that the runners spread out quite early on, and starting at the back was therefore pretty unwise if you wanted to catch up to anyone in front.  But I did, and then I kept catching.  Silly for a training run!  Fun though.  I didn't get overtaken, but I've no idea how many I overtook.  The splits also tell a story of the difficulty and queuing.  5k at 26 something, 10k at 53 something, 15k at 1:23 something, and finish in 1:49:34.

Oh, and I've found another good use for sprint form.  If you stick your toes first into the mud, your foot comes back out again relatively easily.  Heel first and your shoe comes off.

No speculation, BR, because I'm the worst for having downs and ups and not being able to relate them to anything.  Repeating the point though, driving is draining.  As to distance, well, I've travelled 30 minutes for 100m, and if you extrapolate that it's the equivalent of travelling to Sydney for a 5k!!    I think PP's point about value per meter is a good question to associate, but if you were to look at elite competition you see that it doesn't matter - Usain Bolt travels as far as Haile Gebrsellaisse.  I think that works down the scale as if I were asked to represent some level I wouldn't care if it was 100m or Marathon - I would travel.  If it's just for me and therefore, by definition, just for fun, then it's not just the race itself, it's the whole package that makes the trip worthwhile.  I was going to do the CP10, 145 miles and overnight accomodation, for a thread meet.  I wouldn't do it for the race alone.  I would spend a weekend anywhere, and add a race in if available, or parkrun, if I wanted to spend the weekend in that place.  A decent race might simply tip the scales for me going to spend that weekend.

05/11/2012 at 10:37
Ratzer wrote (see)
http://www.fairwater-cwmbran-runners.org.uk/sites/default/files/pictures/profile.JPG

Ouch!

05/11/2012 at 11:38

Ouch indeed Ratzer! The climbs at 4 & 7k look beyond brutal. Sounds like fun though, totally different kind of race to what most of us are used to.

Curly, saw your Fetch blog. It sounds like a good plan, especially if you are getting funded for Masters & Phd (one of the reasons I decided against it this year was because there's no funding anywhere for the field I've studied). 95 @ Gosport would be a great time, coming off the back of a parkrun pb there's no reason why it can't happen. 

Dan, that's a very good time off of a long run the day before. Looks like you have plenty of strength in that regard. Your son must have a good pacing head on him!

Did 9M this morning, pre-breakfast (including a Phil-inspired wait to let everything 'settle'). A solid effort (but not pushing the pace), 7:33/m average. Much better than I felt yesterday.

Results are trickling in from yesterday. Winner (16'46 5k pb) was 58s ahead of me, and third (2'02 800, 4'16 1500) was 50s ahead. So not bad at all!

05/11/2012 at 11:53

Ratzer - I love a nice hill profile... this was my 12m slog in the pissing rain yesterday

http://s3.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/37826/gallery/running_home_04-11-2012__elevation_0.png?width=350

 

 

 

 

05/11/2012 at 12:14
The Duckinator wrote (see)
Did 9M this morning, pre-breakfast (including a Phil-inspired wait to let everything 'settle'). A solid effort ...

At this point I was thinking .... " Nooo, too much information....".

You race results are looking even better after  stalking of those competitors!

BTW, my daughter has applied to do Geography next year.

Curly - sounds like a good plan! Things might be different outside science, but I'd skip Masters and go straight for PhD, unless for some reason it's a prerequisite. When doing a PhD, you usually have to register for MPhil first and then (if you pass the hurdles) transfer to PhD after a year (if full-time, longer if part time) ... you then drop the MPhil bit, but the time/work done is counted as part of the PhD.

 


 

05/11/2012 at 12:19

You cant do a PhD in Phil usually without a masters... its okay you sign up for both at the same time and just make it four years instead of 3

Anyway have to get on a course yet. It's research so doesnt matter too much where as long as they have a decent e library!

05/11/2012 at 12:29

So would you complete the Masters first and then start the PhD ... or is it fully integrated, so that Masters work counts as part of the PhD? Good luck with finding a course. Is there much funding around? Getting on a programme is fairly straight-forward if you have the prerequisites - it's competing for the funding that's usually very difficult.

Edited: 05/11/2012 at 12:29
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