The Middle Ground

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20/11/2012 at 20:57

RobT - I'll let you off, that was a well earned top spot in the WAVA league!

Duck - I too have no idea what you're talking about And sub 30 sec 200 metres being a 'tad sluggish' is just taking the proverbial.

YD - If you run 25 minutes I'll buy you a pint, what more incentive could you want?

Having said that if you do run 25 mins I'll be wanting to have a look at the course accuracy certificate!

Good session tonight on legs 'not playing ball'.


10.0 Miles @ 8:47/mile this stopping me now

Edited: 20/11/2012 at 21:01
20/11/2012 at 21:03
0.8k walked in 12 minutes. There's no stopping me now, either. Will take a rest day tomorrow.
20/11/2012 at 21:19
PRF - sorry to have to ask but have you been injured too? Only ask as your pace is way down on what I remember!

Alehouse - good to see you picking up pace how did your other issue pan out?

Duck - some nice 200m for a November speed session

Another 9 for me tonight moved along at 6.53 pace hip ok again but suffering from quad tightness (DOMS) haven't had that for a very long time!
20/11/2012 at 21:19

Doing a hard session the day after a race did not affect me too badly to be fair.  I have done another 7 miles tonight with faster guys and some crocodile reps thrown in for a bit of variety and although the legs were tired I found the faster bit actually helped to wake them up.  Tomorrow is longer but slower  Only doing doubles at the weekend at present too and am still having a day off, but trying to do all 7 days this week, which will include 3 hard sessions - never heard of in my training lol, let's see how long it takes to get back to full fitness - not long I hope!  Will then start building for the marathon and put in more doubles.

CB - sometimes just running a few faster reps help to loosen the legs and for some reason remove that feeling of tiredness.  Well done for altering the session.

robT - good luck with the MRI results!



20/11/2012 at 21:23

PRF - nice to see improvement in your training pace

Way to go alehouse  Enjoy the rest tomorrow.

20/11/2012 at 21:29
Rob: prostate results Friday. Wish they were yesterday!

Re race then hard session the next day surely that's easier than two full on races back to back.
20/11/2012 at 21:38

Alehouse - It will be interesting to see how things respond to gradually increasing workloads.

robT - No, not injured. I've just had my normal month of post marathon downtime, although it became more like 6 weeks this time. So 6 weeks of eating anything I fancied and running only when I really wanted to.

The result is roughly a stone heavier which is about right for that length of downtime.

I was amused to read Marigold's routine after the 50K, it sounded idntical to mine only he managed to pile the stone on quicker! If it is good enough for world champions........

Hilly - What are crocodile reps? Sub 19:30 on Saturday?

20/11/2012 at 21:38
Alehouse - hope everything goes ok Friday
20/11/2012 at 21:44
PRF - did it not drive you crazy? And do you not eat what you like when training as hard as you do?

I went to see a nutrionist once and after 2 hours of tests v02, body fat etc etc his amazing conclusion was " eat what ever you want and as much as you want" cost me ??120 to be told that !! The only real thing he said was to take a good quality recovery drink and vitamins!!
20/11/2012 at 21:55

Simon - Good patience on the treadmill, that's precisely 10 minutes more than I've ever spent on one.

alehouse - onwards and upwards.  All the best for Friday.

Duck - Oof.  Speedy.

We went the other way with our reps this evening. 4 x 2000m off what I can only call bastard-short recoveries, 100m walk / about 1 minute.  6:38, 6:37, 6:38, 6:37 = almost bang-on 33 mins 10k pace, pretty handy but bloody hell it was hard work.  Still had Sunday's 21 miles in the legs I think, not to mention a lunchtime gym session.  Rainbow trout went down a treat straight after that.

Edited: 20/11/2012 at 21:57
20/11/2012 at 22:00

RobT - No because if I really fancied a run I went for one and still did a few races along the way, including a 10K, a 10 miler and a HM. There was just very little training going on.

On the food front, thre was just a higher incidence of take aways and eating out which, to be honest, I get fed up with after any more than a month. My normal rule is that the nearer that food is to its natural form the better, so loads of fruit, fish etc. The appetite is king and knows what it wants but to function properly it needs regular exercise, otherwise it starts to get confused.

Sounds like that nutritionist saw you coming.

Alehouse - Fingers crossed for Friday.


x-post: Phil - Very tasty session, 8K @ 33min 10K pace off minimal recovery is in 'it hurts to think about it' territory!!

Edited: 20/11/2012 at 22:06
20/11/2012 at 22:53

PRF - sub 19.30, don't be daft!  Crocodile reps is when you have a line of runners and you each take it in turn to sprint to the front.  You might chose a long road and do it all the way along that road, or decide to do it for a length of time.  It's quite good just to chang the pace of a normal club run.  It's  quite enjoyable as it's short, but speedy

21/11/2012 at 08:14
Morning all,

As always, there's loads of scarily quick times and paces being posted here, and people doing sessions that sound like seriously hard work.

Prf - your down-time may be the only time ever that you have posted sessions that I think I could do

Alehouse - hope the results are ok on Friday, and great work on the recovery.

Simon - an hour in the treadmill sounds dull as dishwater, but I guess it's better than not running at all. Were you plugged into an iPod and listening to music?

Hilly - thanks for the link to the Jim Alder interview, I enjoyed reading that, and his "Yorkshireness" came out very clearly. It sounds like you are now fully recovered and getting back into full training?

My training at the moment is much less impressive than what everyone else is doing, and is all about base building. In the last three days I've done 15m, 9m and 7m, all of which has been at a nice aerobic effort level. My plan is to spend between now and Christmas building up the mileage, hopefully to something 50+....
21/11/2012 at 08:47

PRF - you may well be right! You're training times make sense now but can I ask why 6 weeks and let yourself put so much weight on? What times did you do your 3 races in? Is the task of getting back not that much tougher?

Phil - Brilliant session, I do like 2k's and do them myself

YP - each to their own keep some people train faster than others but it doesn't diminish the effort you do.

Simon - well done on an hour on treadmill it can be very boring I did 3 session whilst in recouperation last week and I don't listed to music!!

Hilly - crocodile reps sound like a session we used to do called Indian file!!

21/11/2012 at 09:07

YP, no music. I never listen to it while running, although perhaps if I'm going to be spending some time on the treadmill it might be an idea. By the way, your training is more impressive than mine

robT, I had a deliberate two week break in September and put on about 8-10lbs. I put on so much because like PRF I ate exactly what I wanted, which was lots of take-aways, sweets and beers. It was a nice break after staying race fit all summer.

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 09:07
21/11/2012 at 09:13

YP:  I think you are going about things the right way...I also think that you would be fine on most of PRF's sessions...generally seem to be very steady.

Down time, in PRF’s defence!
When I was middle distance team manager for my club, to my frustration at times several of the track stars used to take October off, and indeed up to the New Year took it pretty easy. When they ran they ran easy, and did do the odd cross country race, but by and large treated this as a time to enjoy themselves, go clubbing etc which they couldn’t do for the rest of the year, which was pretty intense. Looking back I don’t think that they could have sustained 12 months of such high level training, and the down time will have helped psychologically, and possibly even prevented overload and therefore injury. One of our number in particular put on a stone to a stone and a half every year, but then was able to take it off in the spring, to good effect: he still ran between 3:34 and 3:37 for 1500 every year between 1990 and 2000, which is some record. 1:45 for 800 and 3:53 for a mile. Hope this helps your defence, PRF.

RobT:  I know that session as Indian File as well. Perhaps you only get crocodiles in Yorkshire. Also you have probably run against the runner mentioned above:


21/11/2012 at 09:17

PRF – Good effort on the bulking up. I think now is the time to try and get you for a smackdown

Phil – Tasty session, no surprise it hurt! Suggests good things though.

Alehouse – Hope the news on Friday is good.

Hilly – Sounds like you are making up for lost time with all these hard sessions!

A question for Alehosue or anyone else with any experience of Achilles trouble. I seem to have developed a strange clicking or rubbing sensation in my left Achilles. It’s not there when I run but just when I move my foot in a certain way. It maybe happens a few times a day, a similar feeling to when you click a joint. There’s no pain or discomfort, some stiffness perhaps but nothing out of the ordinary. Anything to worry about?

21/11/2012 at 09:20

Alehouse - Maybe we are showing our age  PO10 link doesn't appear to work!

PRF doesn't need defending  I am just interested as I get paranoid if I even contemplate a long break having said that I did have 22 years off!! so I was well and truly rested and I put on 2.5-3 stone!! which has now well gone

21/11/2012 at 09:21

MrV: that sounds a strange problem with the Achilles, if it is indeed the Achilles. Make sure you are doing lots of stretching on it, but I do think you need to run it past a physio if you know someone reliable.

21/11/2012 at 09:25

I've tried again! Hope it works this time.

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 09:25
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