The Middle Ground

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21/11/2012 at 09:31

Alehouse - I do remember Kevin but I packed in '85 so don't think we ever raced though in '85 I did run 1.50.8 for 800m  he raced against one of my training partners, loosly termed, as he used to destroy me on the track!! (Ikem Billy) who ran 1.44.65

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 09:32
21/11/2012 at 09:33

YP - Good shout.  Is everything strictly "easy aerobic" or are you going to throw in some "high aerobic"/sub-threshold stuff?  I find I like to push the pace a bit if I'm feeling particularly good, even in base phase, although it is nice getting out the door knowing there's no pressure to target particular paces.

MrV - I don't know whether your clicking is much to worry about but it sounds familiar!  I often experience a very mild click in the achilles when I'm raising my right foot to put my sock on in the morning.  No other time, which tends to suggest it's when things are still a bit stiff and then it loosens up.  My right achilles was the very first running niggle I ever had, but that was years ago and it doesn't cause any problems now.  Keep doing those soleus stretches, should be fine!

Looking back at last night's session I've got to be pleased with it but at the time it probably seemed like harder work than it should because I was working really hard to keep pace with guys I'd normally expect to be with comfortably.  I suspect they're just getting fitter!  What a team! 

*edit*... The ease with which I put on weight when recovering/being injured/being ill is one of the reasons I don't own any weighing scales!  I know what is the right thing to do, so I don't think it helps to know when I've put on a pound or ten.  I haven't weighed myself for months but my jeans are telling me I'm somewhere between 11st and 11st 5.  Probably.

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 09:37
21/11/2012 at 10:21

Phil - I'm not planning to be all that strict about it, but the general plan is to have most of my runs for the next 6 weeks be easy aerobic. This will be based on heart rate, so probably average heart rate of around 135bpm (70% max), with the only exception being one medium long run a week where, if I feel like it, I will do a bit of sub-theshold  / faster stuff stuff towards the latter end of the run (and will be fine with my average heart rate getting up to 154 (80% max)). If this starts to feel dull at any point, there may be the occasional Parkrun....

21/11/2012 at 10:32

This took some finding!

November
24th - South of the Thames 5m XC Champs - Curly, PhilPub
24th - Norman Woodcock Memorial 5M - MrV, Kelly, YD
25th - Sandhurst TVXC - SG

December
1st - Surrey Womens XC League 1 (6k) - Curly
2nd - Guys 10 Miles(Garstang) - YD
8th - Dysart Cup (4k) - Curly definite
8th - Kent Count Vets XC - PhilPub
9th - Handy Cross TVXC  - SG
16th - Telford 10k - RobT (Main Target)
22nd - Mob Match Ranelagh Vs SLH (7.5m XC) - Curly
29th - Henty Relay (1.5m legs) - Curly

January 2013
1st - Knacker Cracker 10k - YoungPup
5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
6th - Tadworth 10 - YoungPup
20th - Brass Monkey Half Marathon - YD, MrV, Dr.Dan, Hilly, Wardi

February 2013
3rd - Chichester Priory 10k – PhilPub, SG(vaguely pencilled in), YoungPup
3rd – Dewsbury 10k - MrV, BR, Hilly
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
17th - Brighton Half Marathon - PhilPub
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan, MrV, BR, Hilly, Wardi

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) – PhilPub
10th – Northumberland Half Marathon - MrV
24th - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan
24th - Eastleigh 10k - YoungPup

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub, BR, Hilly, PRF
28th - Greater Manchester Marathon - YD

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

21/11/2012 at 10:35

Mr V - Definitely nothing to worry about. I've certainly experienced that clicking at times but I have no idea why it starts or why it stops.

Alehouse/RobT - Whilst you're reminiscing about past middle distance runners in the North West, do you recall my ex teammate John Blackledge? He was reasonably handy over 800m with 1:47.

Hilly - I may be being thick but why is that called a crocodile run? It sounds like a fartlek session done with a few other people?

RobT - The races were:

Cabbage Patch 1:06:20 (6;40/mile)
Lancaster HM 1:34:14 (7:15/mile)
Abbey Dash 41:34 (6:40/mile)

You're right that most runners are loathe to let their hard earned fitness slip by having deliberate downtime but for me it makes logical sense. I call it my injury proofing time and fortunately have never had a running injury, a bit of bruising from falls and tumbles every now and again but no actual running induced injuries.

And despite having two such periods this year there has still been time to squeeze in 83 races this year with 6 weeks of the year still to go, so it isnt as though I miss out.

The way I look at it is that during the downtime the muscles start to lose some of their mass, and hence strength, but at the same time all the connective tissues get to fully recover, repairing the damage caused by the weeks of repeated heavy punishment.

Getting the muscle mass built back up afterwards and losing the excess weight gained is straigtforward enough and then you go into the next period feeling robust as can be .

Mr V - Always up for a smackdown.

 

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 10:37
21/11/2012 at 10:47

Good job I cunningly planned my 6-week annual up-time to co-incide with PRF's 6-week down-time, to record my first victory over the old codger!

21/11/2012 at 10:57

Downtime when needed can be a great thing. I reckon all the problems I've been having for the last couple of months are because I let my season go on a couple of weeks too long. I was exhausted, but there was one more meet that I really only did for the club - and which I ran really badly.

21/11/2012 at 11:22

I have no more target races for the year so am just going to tick over with general training and am taking down time from my job - does that count?

6.8 miles @8:36 mins/mile this morning. No hint of knee problems so as I suspected it was just a niggle (phew). I have revised training paces too which is nice. Remind me I said that when I am struggling on the long runs a bit later on!

Some great training going on PRF's slow runs aside!

Glad to hear you survived the back to back hard days Hilly but I'd be careful about pushing too hard too quickly to regain the fitness. Its already coming, the rest will happen! Crocodile reps sounds weird to me...

Duck some tasty reps there once you had got going! When does your season start again? Are you doing indoors stuff this/next year?

Phil wowsers blimey thats a session and a half!

Alehouse good news on the walk nd the progress it demonstrates.

Amended race calendar coming up...

21/11/2012 at 11:26

November
24th - South of the Thames 5m XC Champs - Curly, PhilPub
24th - Norman Woodcock Memorial 5M - MrV, Kelly, YD
25th - Sandhurst TVXC - SG

December
1st - Surrey Womens XC League 1 (6k) - Curly
2nd - Guys 10 Miles(Garstang) - YD
8th - Dysart Cup (4k) - Curly
8th - Kent Count Vets XC - PhilPub
9th - Handy Cross TVXC  - SG
16th - Telford 10k - RobT (Main Target)
29th - Henty Relay (1.5m legs) - Curly

January 2013
1st - Knacker Cracker 10k - YoungPup
5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
5th - Surrey County Women's XC 6km - Curly
6th - Tadworth 10 - YoungPup
20th - Brass Monkey Half Marathon - YD, MrV, Dr.Dan, Hilly, Wardi

February 2013
3rd - Chichester Priory 10k – PhilPub, SG(vaguely pencilled in), YoungPup, Curly
3rd – Dewsbury 10k - MrV, BR, Hilly
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
17th - Brighton Half Marathon - PhilPub
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan, MrV, BR, Hilly, Wardi

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) – PhilPub
10th – Northumberland Half Marathon - MrV
17th - Clutton Cup XC 10m - Curly
24th - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan
24th - Eastleigh 10k - YoungPup
30th - Baker Cup 3m - Curly

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub, BR, Hilly, PRF
28th - Greater Manchester Marathon - YD

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

21/11/2012 at 11:40

PRF - what a fantastic outlook on running you have and 83 races amazing!! I wish I had your discipline I seem to go till I break and that's not a sensible approach  .

How do you motivate to race so often, how do you prioitise?

I don't remember John but I should yet another quality 80's athlete! Oh those were the days

Curly - goods to hear knee hasn't manifested into something worse

 

WJH
21/11/2012 at 13:59

Hi all – thanks for the positive words of encouragement following my club run on Saturday…on reflection it was indeed very hard work so thank you all for the encouraging comments.  Following a much needed good nights sleep, I felt much better on Monday! It seems a fair few of you on here have suffered over the last week or so in similar fashion by the looks!

Well done Curly on a great half marathon time at Gosport! Makes the long trip all the more worthwhile! I was marshaling just inside Daedalus where the 5/9 mile points met so would have passed me 3 times in all. It’s been a fun experience marshaling there in the past what with the gasps in awe at the runners just leaving the airfield for the first time approaching 5 miles from those just entering! The only real issue I had yesterday was when 3 cars came from nowhere wanting to cross the 5/9 mile area…this was typically timed when the faster runners were  coming up to 9 miles with many other runners approaching 5 which caused a moment of temporary panic. I am not normally bossy but instinct took over with one particularly impatient driver – I almost felt like a human shield at one point!

Shame you couldn’t run Stevie G – I am sure from reading what you did at the GSR that you would have ran a very good time! Always next year though!

Some great mileage totals recently from YD and Mr Viper (will check more recent posts in the thread later as need to catch up a little).

31 miles from me in total last week whereby I will be hoping to maintain this minimum target in the lead up to the end of the year and the Stubbington 10K on 20th January. 6 more miles last night with 4 miles being a quality tempo run. I am planning to do a park run Saturday in Cardiff with the rest of the weeks running being easy paced. That said, actions speak louder than words and I will see how things progress week by week.

On the subject of wider plans next year, my main goal at the moment is the Brighton Marathon on 14 April next year……currently thinking of entering a half before this (Llanelli Waterside on 3rd March). I have also entered the Chichester 10k which will be on 3rd February and Eastleigh 10k on 24th March.

Wider aims are to do another marathon (Amsterdam in October) or the Zevenheuvelenloop (Seven Hills Run) in the east of Holland in November next year. I am sure some of you may know of this 15km race and it always attracts a world class field;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zevenheuvelenloop

All in all, a potentially busy year 2013 race wise on the cards (with others bound to enter into the mix of things)! I may need to think of specific training goals in further detail over the months ahead (as previously discussed) and also perhaps consider which races should be priorities, etc. With Brighton, I will be looking to consolodate a respectable time in comparison to race times achieved over other distances after injuries suffered in London (2010) and Brighton last year. All in all though, I’d rather be racing and active than doing nothing.

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 14:20
WJH
21/11/2012 at 14:10

WJH it was a great race! I didnt see any cars, but have had similar issues when marshalling myself...

Consistent mileage will give you good improvements and Cardiff parkrun is a fab course to have a bash on too!

What would you consider a good time at Brighton? I ask because its a good race to make your early year target and build the rest of your racing plans around that.

WJH
21/11/2012 at 18:21

Curly...being sensible I would like to go between 3:30 and 3:40 at Brighton next year....PB is 4:12 at London and Brighton last year was completed in 5:27 but injuries struck in both but I think that is more to do with the fact that I failed to respect the distance on both occasions - however, I have since learn't a lot about my body and what it can and can't cope with and don't want to make the same mistakes again! Both times I ended up with bad knees - whether or not it was something like ITBS? not too sure to be honest but either way, it meant that the 2nd half of Brighton was completed in agony earlier this year in over 3 and a half hours!  So at the moment, it is about just getting a respectable time to make up for! Also thinking of the option of entering the Bramley 20 which is some point in February...all these decisions need to be made sooner rather than later...

Alehouse - well done on the progress!

Hilly - good sessions including the doubles (only ever done one double set in my life earlier this year).

Hoping to run a nice easy paced 5 or 6 miles tonight.

WJH
21/11/2012 at 18:42

Dr Dan - Nice cunning plan, so thats the real reason you dropped out of Chester then?

And it just shows the value of persistence, when was it that you first tried taking me down? 1986 was it?

Curly - Notes taken ready for responding to your long run moaning. So what is the next target then if theres nothing else this year?

WJH - Good to see next year's plans shaping up.

RobT - Most races are essentially just part of the training. I usually aim to have 4 or 5 'going to the well' efforts each year. This year they were the two marathons, VLM (2:57:04) and Chester (2:55:36), and then GNR (1:18:41), Hull parkrun (17:25) and Leeds Golden Mile (5:00.2).

 

10K @ 9:10/mile this evening. Felt good

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 18:43
21/11/2012 at 19:26

WJH:  re Wevenheuvenloop, if you look for a guy called sevendaughters on Monday's daily thread (hopofully linked below), he did it this year, i.e. last Sunday. I have met the guy a couple of times and feel confident that he would be happy to speak to you about it. Well worth reading his report: sounds like he had a great time. Would make a great thread day(s) out! The report is the last two posts on page one of the thread:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/training/monday-19th-november201/233144.html

21/11/2012 at 19:29

PRF: I should hope you did feel good at that pace. Are you tapering? And YP didn't think he'd cope with your sessions!

21/11/2012 at 20:32

Dr Dan.. if you think PRF is an old codger I'm already in my rocking chair!

PRF.. sensible stuff, I've been doing 'easy running' periods of a month or so for the last few years (some injury induced & some not).

PP.. great session there!

Alehouse.. fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Hilly.. found this link to the Abbey Dash 2006 where you clocked 38:54.  You well & truly chicked me that day (39:26).  Happy Days!

4.3m + 7m yesterday & a steady 5.2m tonight.

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 20:36
21/11/2012 at 20:52

Simon, treadmill running is horrendous  - getting an hour is impressive. 

YD, that's a good looking tempo. The glycolytic system, AKA lactic acid system, is  the one used most in MD racing. Training it this early is a bit pointless (although dipping slightly into it for maintenance isn't the worst idea ever IMO) which is why I'm going to back off a little.

Phil, those times are rather symetrically pleasing! Nice running there.

Mr V, you might have inflamed it a bit and it's rubbing against the surrounding area? I had something that sounds kind of similar about 6 months ago.

Curly, season won't start until April time, but I'm looking at some indoor races in January & February (probably some 4's & 8's to set benchmarks). There's a meet December 16th which is a 60m league which could be interesting!

parkrunfan wrote (see)

My normal rule is that the nearer that food is to its natural form the better, so loads of fruit, fish etc. 

Pretty much the approach I take too. "5 a day" for me is more like "8 a day", as well as fish (inc. cod liver oil etc), wholegrain, and protein (Chickpeas & Kidney beans being a staple). 

It's strange because as little as a year ago I doubt I could have eaten like I do now, whereas these days I'm really enjoying eating how I am & it's filtering back into training and racing.

4M this morning, in the dark. It took an age to get going but it's a good feeling to have training for the day done and dusted by 6:15am!

Edited: 21/11/2012 at 20:53
21/11/2012 at 20:59

Thanks for that Wardi - them were the days and remembering back I had a bad run that day - oh to run 38 mins now and say I had a bad run

Thanks for the advice Curly  Seriously I'm aware of pushing too hard.  On that note 15 miles at a steady pace tonight, which felt comfortable and very enjoyable.

I'm sure crocodile reps have many names in different clubs and yes PRF they are just a a bit of fartlek in a group, but instead of running to a post or some other object you run to the end of the line of runners.  I guess it's called crocodile because it's a long line of runners and a crocodile is kind of long or maybe we're supposed to bite legs as they pass?

Good plan on building up the runs YP.

robT - impressive 800m time in your younger days!

22/11/2012 at 09:08
parkrunfan wrote (see)
Dr Dan - Nice cunning plan, so thats the real reason you dropped out of Chester then?

And it just shows the value of persistence, when was it that you first tried taking me down? 1986 was it?

PRF ... in hindsight, I should have cracked open a bottle of bubbly - it might be another 26 years before I clock up another one. When's your next marathon ...

 

Wardi wrote (see)
Dr Dan.. if you think PRF is an old codger I'm already in my rocking chair!

Tongue-in-cheek Wardi ... he's only 3 weeks older than me .

 

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