The Middle Ground

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28/11/2012 at 11:56
Wardi/PP - another fan here for the "Forever Changes" album. Also recommended from that era are Surrealistic Pillow (Jefferson Airplane), Oddesey and Oracle (Zombies), It's A Beautiful Day (It's a Beautiful Day) and What We Did On Our Holidays (Fairport Convention). Oh and Phil, I'll bet your a fan of Curved Air, if so, you might also like the album The Machine That Cried by String Driven Thing

Unfortunately I've currently got a bit more time than I would like to listen to my 60s albums, as I'm struggling with a disagreeable hamstring. I'm at that dodgy stage of tottering on the edge of either it clearing up or me doing something stupid and it getting was always thus, either injured or in the process of getting injured.

Hilly - good to see things starting to come together. Are you running completely pain free at the moment and has BR shaken off the blues?
Edited: 28/11/2012 at 11:57
28/11/2012 at 13:59

Cheers Tom, a few items for my wish list there. I'm not familiar with String Driven Thing but a fan of Curved Air so I'll check them out.  I saw Curved Air at Glastonbury not so long ago and had the pleasure of chatting with Sonja Kristina afterwards whilst she was signing my new Curved Air anthology CD.  Lovely woman!  Surrealistic Pillow is also up there for me and I've got all the Sandy Denny-era Fairport.  One back at you - have I recommended the band Trees before?  Very Fairport but not very well known, having only released two albums in 1970. Celia Humphris is another gorgeous hippy-chick with a lovely voice, and I particularly recommend the re-released On the Shore which, funnily enough, saw me to work this morning.  And good luck with the hammy. 

6.5M jog at lunchtime /  beer & curry this evening.

Edited: 28/11/2012 at 14:38
28/11/2012 at 15:07
Phil - thanks for the Trees recommendation now added to my Amazon wish list. Another album of that era you may have heard is Eclection, the only British band ever to sign to the Electra label and which eventually provided the backbone of Sandy Denny's Fotheringay project. Given your excellent taste another singer I'm sure you're familiar with is Thea Gilmore - her album of "co-written" Sandy Denny songs "Don't Stop Singing" should have had a Mercury Prize nomination!


Ps I don't know if you are a fan of Ashley Hutching's folk-rock projects but there's an album called "No Roses" by Shirley Collins and The Albion Country Band which absolutely knocks the spots off the (allegedly) seminal "Leige and Leif"

Pps Apologies to everybody else for hijacking this thread with my 1960s folk rock ramblings....back in me box!
28/11/2012 at 15:23

Hee thats okay I have weird music tastes too and next week will be in Brixton for a Ben Folds 5 gig which is going to be awesome (Matt Lucas got up and did a number with their support act the other day!)...

A less donkey like 10.5 at lunchtime that flowed very nicely. Was much more wrapped up though so its likely the sudden change in temperature was at least partly to blame for last nights inability to run well!

28/11/2012 at 16:23

Sounds like progress, alehouse (the exercise, not beer prices. Although last time I chekced you could get a Sam Smiths for just over £2 around Tower Bridge.)

Very nice intervalling, Phil

Curly, you're right not to be disappointed. I think it takes a few sessions to get used to a new type of training. I remember last April doing my first interval sessions of the season and found them really tough. By June I had absolutely no problem with them. I must say I never found lactic tolerance sessions easy - they were just pure pain.

Just seen the physio, and my problem is the medial collateral ligament. I had some ultrasound and interferential and have icing instructions and some exercises to build up the left leg (which is underdeveloped compared to the right).

But the good news is I can carry on running - should just cut volume a bit and take an extra rest day. She reckons 4-6 weeks for it to hea fulll, and the key is blood flow. So, apart from icing I want to keep it warm. May have to wear tracksuit bottoms on runs

Something interesting she told me - icing for up to 5 minutes increases bloodflow. Beyond that bloodflow is decreased. So in the case of an initial injury, icing for 15-20 minutes is a good idea (to stop the bleeding), but for rehabilitation you should limit it to 5 minutes.

28/11/2012 at 21:50

Tom - yes I'm running totally pain free, but still building back up.  I'm still only at around 45-50 miles a week, but will gradually up this as I start to feel stronger. I'm running a few runs faster than I would normally, which I think is helping to get the fitness back.  I'm doing a 10 mile race on Sunday, so it will be interesting for me to see where I am over that distance - I have an idea, but would like it confirmed

BR is suffering awful at present, not so much with the blues, but with what I think is the same virus I had for months and makes any running feel like it's in slow motion.  Not good, but he's still coming out with me and doing the odd harder run.  It's hard for him to keep positive when running is so important and he's so competitive, but I keep telling him that it will get better and he just needs to allow whatever virus is in him to leave.  It's a horrid virus and when I had it I couldn't quite believe the severity! 

Just over 8 miles for me tonight with 2 x 2 miles at effort, what effort I have no idea and really not bothered lol, it was just faster than I would normally run on a steady run.  I'm really not concerned these days with paces on training runs, just how it feels and if it feels hard on a session that's good enough

28/11/2012 at 22:08

Hilly thats great news you are able to run pain free and I hope Sunday confirms your fitness thoughts!

More good news from Simon hope the road back is smooth.

BR I do hope you can shift the virus soon.

28/11/2012 at 22:48
Hilly - send the old fella my best wishes.....not sympathy, you understand....just my best wishes.
29/11/2012 at 06:31

Cheers Curly.

Of course Tom

He'll post again when his running is back on track...

A question,,,

When you're suffering with illness or injury that affects your running do you find it hard to come on RW and see all the postive runs being done by others or do you like to come on as it gives you hope and helps you forget a bit about your own woes?

I very nearly went out for a run at 5.15 this morning, but got up to go the loo and looked out the window to a dark, frozen street and then looked at my warm bed and yup you guessed it the one won over the other  Oh well keep trying and I'm sure the drive to get out there in the dark and cold will return...

Edited: 29/11/2012 at 06:34
29/11/2012 at 08:31

Hilly I understand the bed winning! I find it hard to come on RW when I'm not running effectively (hence my long periods of absence) I try to immerse myself in other things to keep me occupied.

29/11/2012 at 10:50

Hilly It depends... when I was recovering from my fractured rib and still able to get out and walk and felt like I was okay and getting back on track I found other's posts motivting, when I was awaiting my operation I avoided it because I didnt know if and when I would be able to run again!

I can understand why BR is avoiding it at the moment, Magpie's back when on Tues at club so he's taking a few days to a week off and hes quite fine about it as it has an end point and is a cause he knows about. BR's virus sounds a bit like the illness version of this race!

29/11/2012 at 11:22

YD - I'm rushing to get my entry in right this very minute, wouldnt want to miss out

I've actually been to that farm on business and to be honest I dont blame them if they can get a bunch of fools to provide them with an additional income stream.

It seems to have been all beer and music for the last couple of days apart from Curly running like a donkey!

But to use a donkey as an expression to suggest you werent running well is a bit unfair on the donkey world, or at least on the ones I know. Have you seen a donkey run? They're quicker than Duck!


And, yes, I think most people post roughly in proportion to how well their own running is going.

29/11/2012 at 12:01
Curly45 wrote (see)

 BR's virus sounds a bit like the illness version of this race!

Now sorry to get all philosophical on y'all (it's not even Friday), but...

"Now imagine that this comfort was taken away. Imagine that you are tired, cold, aching, hungry, lonely and depressed and on top of all that you have NO IDEA how much further it is to go. The end of the battle may be just around the next corner. It may be two hours away. It might not be till tomorrow. It might not be until…How could you motivate yourself to finish a race where you don’t know where the finish is? How can you justify your own suffering based on how much of it is left if you don’t know how much is left? How will you endure the tough times when the whole thing just seems so pointless? Will you have the mental fortitude to keep going?"

...reads very much like my argument against the supposed joys of immortality, life after death, or come to that, Heaven itself.  Of course, in practical terms I'm sure the race director has already worked out a finite race distance, but what if they were a delusioned end-of-the-world fanatacist who envisaged all the race participants running non-stop all the way to Armegeddon itself?!   Have I been listening to too much acid-folk recently?

...Oh hang on, soup time!

Edited: 29/11/2012 at 12:01
29/11/2012 at 12:05

And I wonder if the participants would be relieved or mightily pissed off if it turned out that the race distance was actually only 400 metres? Theres nothing to say that it isnt.........

29/11/2012 at 12:16

Drat lost my post!

A friend organised it, he is a nutcase and actually it was loops so it could be varying distances, but yes since it cost £1.37 to enter there was always the option that it was going to be short. It wasnt as it hapened, ended with 2 finishers, 5 DNS and 8 DNFs

29/11/2012 at 12:36

"Unknown distance" is quite a common race in amateur track cycling events.  I've never been that keen meself; there's always a suspicion that the commissaires just ring the bell when they're getting bored, or if one of their mates happens to be in a break-away at the time.

Hilly - all the best to BR. I have every faith in his powers of patience and perseverance.    When I'm properly benched I'm still wasting my time on here but more likely to be elsewhere on the forum discussing dogs, iPods and music!  The enthusiasm for discussing the minutia of people's training times, splits and intervals definitely wears thin when you're not getting involved, although there's still genuine interest in the bigger picture, seeing people having breakthrough races, overcoming injuries themselves, etc. so I'd always pop my head in. 

Edited: 29/11/2012 at 12:51
29/11/2012 at 15:29
Hilly wrote (see)

A question,,,

When you're suffering with illness or injury that affects your running do you find it hard to come on RW and see all the postive runs being done by others or do you like to come on as it gives you hope and helps you forget a bit about your own woes?

pass on wishes for a speedy recovery to the BR meister!

Just like you need time out every so often from the training, I think you definitely need time out from posting furiously about it!

Injury times I tend to go into a different zone, a rehab zone, so i don't give any thoughts to racing, or hard sessions, just getting fixed is the aim.

I gave my thread a bit of a rest for a couple of months, firstly because it becomes dull just saying you're doing easy paced running, and not anywhere near racing, and secondly because it is tricky when you have a high achieving gang all smashing races.

It's not that you're not happy for them, it's that you're gutted to be missing out and not contributing.

so, I understand why BR is taking some time away!

29/11/2012 at 18:10

Tom.. I hope the latest niggle isn't a setback for long.  One folk album I am very fond of.. 'The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter' by the Incredible String Band.  A bizzare journey of folkie/hippy mysticism surely written while under the influence of dubious substances.  Despite all that it somehow hangs together as a work of genius.  I'm surprised BR hasn't interjected with some classic Dylan albums to put in amongst our 60's & 70's ramblings!

Nice training Curly & good to see Hilly on an upward curve.

Best of luck to Simon in recovery/comeback mode.

Gorgeous cold sunny day here so got out for 12.5m around the villages.  Still wearing shorts but the gloves were definitely on! 

29/11/2012 at 21:58

Ooh, must dig out some ISB.

Yay, more intervals. Turned up to a somewhat frosty track this evening for some threshold miles, 7 x 1600 with 30 secs recovery.  Aiming for 5:30 so, given conditions, happy with 5:30 - 5:32 for all reps, except a final-lap burn-up for a last rep 5:27.  Got some good quality in this week.

29/11/2012 at 22:33

I live!

rob, good news that you're not falling apart quite yet.

prf, how hard are these recent races feeling comparison to pre-Chester races? Did 19'17 effort equate to sub-18 effort, etc etc...

I've never raced a Donkey before, I shall set up a race with a £30 entry fee for anyone to enter (provided you bring your own ipod and do an aerobics warmup) and make a killing.

Kelly, the cake looked rather nice Getting the feeling of being on the cusp of dropping off the pace shows a well excecuted race and digging when it counts.

YP, good to see the long run being kept to a suitable effort level!

Curly, choosing spike length is quite difficult sometimes! Too long spikes are a nightmare to run in as it is so tough, similarily with too short spikes! I enjoy seeing the road times of those who finish around me in XC, looks like you put together a good run on tricky terrain.

What kind of pace does 6:37 equate to now?

Barnsley crew, good LR'ing there.

Hilly, it's a huge effort for me to get out at 5:30 to get the miles in before work. Thankfully being in a reasonably well-lit area means I do have some light at least!

I do find it difficult to post during any downtime period. Mainly because I want to run and for whatever reason I can't. At the same time any injury requires rehab which in my mind is training of a sort too, so I like to update how that is going and bore everyone with the same stuff day after day

stevie the swimmer -

Phil, strong XC too. 5'40 miling on XC's impressive! Monster session Tuesday too.

At Uni there was a local pub that was AT LEAST £4/pint. Only went there when I was on society-related buisness (they gave us free pints then).

YD, those splits look pretty decent from here. Your farty friend was just trying to lose ballast! :P

Enjoy your ticking over for a while, I think you have deserved it!

cb, I am the same in that I struggle to hit quick paces in the morning but like you said it is often a necessity. Good feeling having it done and dusted before most people have rubbed the sleep out of their eyes :P

Simon, sounds very similar to the virus I had back in 2010. It's awful but don't make the mistake I made of barreling into a HM and almost passing out after 9 miles!

I had a collateral ligament problem too. It was an annoying injury but like you not one that forced me to stop.

cb is right, I had a period last year when I was training very well, every session was pointing towards some good times... then I ended up going backwards in every race. I had to have a long talk with myself and decide what it was I really wanted out of running. At the end of the day something I think we tend to forget is the non race performance benefits we get out of running - cv-wise we are all in excellent health, none of us have weight-related health problems.... the health benefits of regular exercise are something I admit I often forget about when I am annoyed about not quite running as fast as I could do in a race. I think Josh's recent issue is a stark reminder of what COULD happen were we to not be in the position we are now.

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