The Middle Ground

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29/11/2012 at 22:52

Christ, that took a long time to type. Moving along.

Training recently. 3*(20/30/40) hillsprints Sunday morning in the rain. Good session. Explosive running is coming along nicely right now (need to do more plyometrics though, although acceleration & max v work can be argued to be that if you really want). 

Monday, pretty easy 5. Nothing untoward to report.

Tuesday. 4*400 + 4*200. 73.5, 70.5, 68.8, 70.0, 31.3, 30.4, 30.4, 29.2. Early morning so rather good. The 200s especially were floats. 

And last 2 days have been general easy. Acceleration/max v work tomorrow, easy Saturday then 4'55 for the mile Sunday. Simple 

I also now have a coachee.... sort of. More of an informal "I'll give you sessions which you can take or leave if you want" agreement, but she's going to give the MG way of life a shot for a while I think  

She has a parkrun pb of 24'20 but recent weeks have been max effort (decent conditions too) and slipping right off the pace to the mid-26'xx range. Basically, totally off the boil. So building to ~35-40mpw, 35-45 min tempos, a bit of faster work (400 on, 200 off is the limit to begin with), some progression runs and we'll reassess in the new year  exciting stuff. 

30/11/2012 at 09:51

Glad to see training is going well Duck nice progressive times on the 400s

Coachee sounds good for you - will give you a new set of running challenges working with someone else who responds in different ways to stimulus than you do!

6.8 @ 8:38 for me this morning, feck its cold! I know you northerners are used to it but brrrrrr

30/11/2012 at 11:57

Duck - Top posting effort there, you're obviously in pretty good shape on the endurance front.

£30 for a donkey race! I'm sure that I got a couple of donkey rides a year for my entire childhood for that sort of money.......and that included a bag of chips on the way home!

As to your question about how hard current runs feel compared to previously, they all feel easy but at the same time I cant go any quicker. Basically the additional weight slows everything down but due to all the conditioning from intense racing over the summer I cant even get into heavy breathing territory effort levels.

 

Enlighten me, what is the MG way of life? Good luck with the coachee, I'm sure she will get plenty benefit from your accumulated knowledge.

I too may have a coachee shortly, of the sub 3 variety, so that should be interesting.....

Curly - Wuss!

Whos racing this weekend? YD/BR/Hilly and myself are running the Guys 10 over at Garstang with the main focus being on YD's sub 60 but is anyone else racing/running?

30/11/2012 at 12:00

I'm racing the Surrey XC tomorrow - 6k around Nonsuch park!

What is it with all these coachees all of a sudden?

Have fun at Garstang you Northern tough lot!

 

30/11/2012 at 12:09

Curly - More XC? You're becoming a proper mud lark.

Are you doing Nonsuch parkrun as well as a warm up/mud acclimitisation?

30/11/2012 at 12:14

I'm not because Magpie is sleeping out in a forest (yes really the nutcase!) and wont be back until about 10:30.

Don't think there will be much mud as it will be frozen - can you still wear spikes on frozen grass?

30/11/2012 at 13:51

Noticed someone mentioned Jefferson Airplane over the last few days. I like a bit of Jefferson Airplane, does anybody else get upset when they hear a Jefferson Starship record? How could they sink so low?.

Some decent chilly miles from Wardi

Looking forward to Sunday prf, it’ll be interesting to see how you get on now the fitness comeback is in full swing. Same goes for Hilly.
Is BR still running?

Good effort on the read back Duck, good paces as well.

Excellent threshold pace in the cold last night Phil.

Enjoy the XC Mudlark Curly! As for the spikes on frozen grass, yes, probably, as long as the ground below isn’t frozen solid. Even if it is frozen, spikes should still penetrate.

Not heard from Mr V, maybe he’s on sleep catch-up.

I was babysitting for some friends who live about a mile away last night. So thought I may as well run round there and run back with a few miles tagged on, on the way back home to make the distance respectable. I didn’t get away until nearly 11pm, quite a strange experience running so late, very cold and eerie….. I quite liked it in a strange kind of way. Very peaceful it made for a good time to run and think.

Bliddy cold today though, forecast for around zero on Sunday, not ideal, I certainly think it takes the edge off your performance when the temp drops close to zero. Fingers crossed it nudges up to 3 or 4 degrees by the time the race starts.

30/11/2012 at 14:03

Curly - yeah, spikes all the way. Your ankles / calves might ache a little more though. Mine would!

Duck - you'll need a flippin' good warm-up before Sunday's race!  Will be interested to see how sub- 5 you can go.

It is indeed proper taters out at the moment.  I'm pleased to say that I completely forgot about my fingers on the lunchtime bimble, thanks to these little beauties:

http://www.alwaysriding.co.uk/images/paps/Craft+Bike+Thermal+Split+Finger+Glove+2013_black.jpg

Clearly ideal for those lobster impressions, but also seemingly the warmest gloves I've managed to come across so far.  I think the real test will be heading out on the bike at 9am tomorrow...

Good luck to all the weekend racers.  Kick it hard to stay warm.

30/11/2012 at 14:08

Duck, good luck with the coachee. Sounds like a decent approach to start with. Maybe compile a list of the running laws we were churning out recently. Speaking of which:

Carrot's Law: a group of attractive peole running in close proximity will eventually form a circle

Curly, I suspect Nonsuch will have defrosted a little by the time you start. It was the muddiest I've ever seen it last week. I actually slipped over doing my warm up session which gave everyone a laugh.

YD, I've been out very late/very early a few times and really like it. I prefer very early better because of the lack of traffic.

8 x 200m @ 1500/34s and 4 x 100m @ 800/15.5s last night (goal paces for next season). Can't believe how fast 200m in 34s feels after a few months away from it.

My knee is actually recovering really well and I'm starting to feel a bit fitter again too.

30/11/2012 at 15:13

Curly, it's stupidly cold up here now, not helped by the ol' North Sea breeze  And yeah spikes will be fine but if it's all frozen I'd stick with 6mm.  

prf, given how you've been posting I assume this is all normal for this time period post-marathon?

YD, late running is strange and not at all like early running! I'd much prefer the morning simply because this area can get a bit dodgy at night. Good training in any case!

Phil, there's plenty of the Gore-tex in at work at the moment and it's fantastic for keeping warm. There's a little bottle of compressed air Gore sent us to show prospective customers how good the Gore/Windstopper technology is. I tried it a while back and the diference between Gore-tex and non-Gore is enormous. 

I'd keep those gloves for next Halloween and go as some kind of Lobser/Alien crossbreed.

Simon, 34s/200 for 1500 is rather quick  hope the upwards progress continues!

parkrunfan wrote (see)

Enlighten me, what is the MG way of life?

My interpretation from the past 2 and a halfish years:

  1. Easy miles are essential.
  2. Consistency is key.
  3. Not every race has to be flat-out.
  4. (similarily) A weekly parkrun never did anyone any harm.
  5. Tapers are very overrated.
  6. Never target one specific race unless you have to (i.e. marathons).
  7. Race a variety of distances until you find your ideal distance.
  8. Never be too specific or rigid with a training plan.
  9. There is no one right way to train.
  10. Focus on effort level, not pace.
  11. Don't set off too fast in a race.
  12. Smackdowns (and PO10 head to heads) are a way of life.
  13. Beer the night before a race is always a good idea.
  14. Don't try and out-media whore prf. You'll never win.
30/11/2012 at 15:20

Today I used the indoor track which was good fun! Skill sprints session - 5*100, split up into 30/30/40 @ 80/90/100% max speed w/6 min rec, then 60m all-out to finish the session.

Times don't mean a huge amount in a session like this, but ran 13.2, 13.5, 13.4, 13.3, 13.3 for the 100s, then (handtimed) ran 8.0 for the 60m. My pb (also handtimed but in an actual race) is 8.2 which was done while fresh so I'm hoping that's a good step upwards in the raw speed department. Obviously I need to replicate this in a race for it to mean anything, so the aim for December 16th will be 8-flat or perhaps 7.9 when fresh. 

Felt good to get back into some max speed work, it sems like I have a good ability to change gears right now which will come in handy for indoors. Max speed does feel a bit uncomfortable right now but I just need to work on it for a good block of training now.

Edited: 30/11/2012 at 15:20
30/11/2012 at 16:59

YD - Late night running is a rare event and should, in theory, be no different to running at any other time of day. However, it does feel as though you are  running the risk of spending the night in a police cell on suspicion if there have been any local burglaries!

Duck - Yes, all perfectly normal after planned downtime. The next step is to to see if I can tick off back to back sub 20s at Dewsbury tomorrow although I'm RDing so that is dependent on all the key roles being filled.

Love the clarification of the 'MG way of life'

At least it shows there has been the odd nuggett amongst the sea of pointless ramblings.

30/11/2012 at 17:35
Duck - good to hear you talking up the Gore-tex gear. How does their techno-babble compare with this:

"SKINS A200 Thermal Long Sleeve Mock Top uses a unique Body Mass Index anthropometrical algorithm to take into account the wearer's chest size to guarantee a good fit"

Regarding posting when injured: I find it extremely hard for two reasons: Firstly I'm a miserable b@stard (more so when injured) and secondly because of the interactive nature of these threads. The buzz is the give and take, which means that, when injured, you have very little current experience to give and the take seems to be a series of get well soon cards. This is why I'm such a peripheral figure on the RW these days. My better half tells me I'm being selfish whilst my less noble half is eaten up with envy at everybody else's exploits. In the context of the above the two people whom I respect most for their continuing and generous contributions in the face of bad injuries are Alehouse and PhilPub - thanks guys.
30/11/2012 at 17:37

Duck, I disagree rather strongly with 5) and somewhat with 10) Everything else makes sense, but you forgot "red shoes make you faster".

Good session. 8 for 60m is flying. Even hand-timed you can't be far off.

 

30/11/2012 at 18:27

Simon, I could say 5 & 10 are kind of explained by 9. I've found tapering to be a little bit hit and miss for me, often a taper leaves me feeling sluggish and I don't perform as well if I just 'train through' so to speak, on the other hand an easy week before  a 400 or a 200 often pays dividends.

Then again you have prf/BR/Hilly who always seem to run well off of next to no taper. 

Regarding 10, again that's more of a personal thing (and I believe a few others have mentioned that - for them - pace is an output not an input). I find it hard to hit a predetermined split unless I manage to get really dialled into a session, and if I'm on a bad day I don't see the point in forcing myself to hit a specified split. I aim to hit a level of fatigue within a session (e.g. a 4*400 session in May should be all-out by the end, whereas 6*200 in November should be reasonably relaxed) and the pace is the output.

Experiments of one!

Tom, Gore technospeak isn't too bad actually. During staff training they mentioned hydrostatic testing, and how the PSI values of the Gore technology were well above the minimum standard set. If I were to mention that to customers they'd fall asleep so I get a bottle of water and squeeze it on the jacket instead. Easier to understand and more fun. 

Edited: 30/11/2012 at 18:28
30/11/2012 at 18:45
The Duckinator wrote (see)

My interpretation from the past 2 and a halfish years:

  1. Easy miles are essential.
  2. Consistency is key.
  3. Not every race has to be flat-out.
  4. (similarily) A weekly parkrun never did anyone any harm.
  5. Tapers are very overrated.
  6. Never target one specific race unless you have to (i.e. marathons).
  7. Race a variety of distances until you find your ideal distance.
  8. Never be too specific or rigid with a training plan.
  9. There is no one right way to train.
  10. Focus on effort level, not pace.
  11. Don't set off too fast in a race.
  12. Smackdowns (and PO10 head to heads) are a way of life.
  13. Beer the night before a race is always a good idea.
  14. Don't try and out-media whore prf. You'll never win.

Appreciate putting your manifesto up there to be shot down, well played Sir.

Just a few general thoughts/questions, as I have nothing better to do

How much of this is aimed at the distances you run, and how much at the  long distance races?

I don't know anything about MD, but you certainly don't want to be trying to nail a target half marathon after a peak level training week! That taper is essential to the majority of runners. (though for some reason I have a feeling BR or prf might disagree)

How do you judge what is "too fast" as a start in a race out of interest? I ask as I always start a race with the fastest mile of the whole race.

How much of a fast start can you get away with before it wrecks the race, and how do you measure that?

Yes "don't start too fast" is good logic, but so is "don't race too slow". It's a bit flimsy though. It takes ages to work out what you can get away with start wise....

Edited: 30/11/2012 at 18:47
30/11/2012 at 23:00

Last night's session was a good example of running by pace rather than effort. The goal was to familiarise myself with next season's goal paces and to practice running that those paces.I couldn't do that by effort alone.

The Duckinator wrote (see)

Then again you have prf/BR/Hilly who always seem to run well off of next to no taper.

I've run well off no taper as well. But I've run better when properly tapered. And to be clear, by tapering I mean several weeks of deliberately freshening up; not a few easy days before a race which is the most common definition, and which I personally haven't found useful.

30/11/2012 at 23:32

Stevie I did just that recently actually!

"but you certainly don't want to be trying to nail a target half marathon after a peak level training week!"

Not peak miles (because I havent been doing a huge amount of miles recently) but 44 miles the rolling seven days before the half, including, a long run of 14.5 miles, a speed session, cycling 5 days including one day of 18 miles (the session day!), one medium long and all my other weekly runs, the only sop to tapering was I ran extra easy on the parkrun by tailrunning.

I think tapering is vastly overrated for long distance runners.

30/11/2012 at 23:34

For comparison the week before mileage was 47 so no massive diffence in case you think I am hiding something. I also ran well above my best prediction (1:35 A taget, 1:33 got).

01/12/2012 at 10:15

Be interesting if you did your top line mileage and then took on a half marathon....i'd be surprised if you found that better than tapering for it.

When I think taper, I'm meaning a speed session would  be the same paces, but lower volume, and generally lower volume across the week, whilst still keeping in tune with the usual plan.

However, clearly, like BR once said years ago, if you taper for every race you end up massively affecting the training, as you taper before, and recover after, so load of time goes.

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