The Middle Ground

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06/05/2010 at 09:47

That is somewhat mind boggling!

On the subject of slightly odd world records, does anyone else think this one is a bit soft? I'm sure we could bag a world record for the thread with a bit of effort.....

06/05/2010 at 10:01
I'm the lightest (unless Duck/Zion are tiny) - I'll sit in it
06/05/2010 at 10:02

Moraghan - you can be the guinea pig then and let us all know how it goes.

Yes, he'd approve of the running shoes, but even more so to the bare foot running on p.15

PRF - lol, not sure that one would pass H&S regulations though.

One thing I noticed from all the records for backwards running there only seemed to be one British record and that was for 24 hours - TWENTY FOUR HOURS!!

06/05/2010 at 10:06

I love the socks/shorts combo more than anything

24 hours is just mind boggling - I bet it is a lot harder than it looks too (not going to try am clumsy enough going forwards and I already have massive calves and thighs from gymnastics - I do not need to make them worse!) 

06/05/2010 at 10:22

Quick read back...... crikey you lot are fast!!

I found when I used to run for a club I felt pressure whenever I raced, however, since coming back to running and as yet not belonging to a running club I find racing much less stressful. I try to see each race as a learning step and don't really set myself targets. As long as its all heading in the right direction I'm happy.

Really fed up at the moment as have caught my daughters cold. Should be doing my marathon on Sunday but at the moment really not sure if I will make the starting line. Feels more than a cold as I have felt soooooo tired aswell. RHR is up 8bpm still so will play it by ear. Two days to go

Think I'll let you have the trolley seat Curly45 as the speed of these guys I'd be scared of the consequences if we crashed

06/05/2010 at 10:39

prf - I'd give that a go.  Wouldn't be the first time I broke a soft running world record!   Given that shopping trolleys rarely go in a straight line I suggest we find one that veers slightly to the left and do it on a track. 

When it comes to me and going backwards, winter sports seem to feature quite heavily.  I once skied 5kms backwards.  I snapped the front off a rental ski going down a huge mogul field and it was the only way to get back to the nearest lift.  I thought I was quite good at it, actually.

Sorry, this is a training thread isn't it.  *ahem*  Anyone want to talk about hills?  Since training for the Beachy Head marathon last year I've found a new appreciation for how bloody useful hills are for strengthening, and for getting many of the benefits of traditional interval training without the same impact, which I'm currently finding particularly useful on the road back from injury.

Favourite session: mid-length run hilly fartlek. Uphill: hard / downhill: recovery / flat: steady (+ w/u & c/d) Obviously nice if you can find a nice off-road hilly/undulating woodland trail area with a mixture of short/sharp and longer gentle slopes, but repeat hills if necessary.  I'm sure others can recommend more structured and scientific sessions but for me this covers a lot of bases, doing a lot to improve your form and fitness on the flat as well on the hills.  I'm trying to do at least one deliberately hilly session a week.

Edited: 06/05/2010 at 10:43
06/05/2010 at 10:54

Zion - that's a shame.  I had exactly the same thing a few weeks ago and had to drop out of my marathon at the half way point.  I'd had a sore throat a few days before it and kept trying to ward it off with all sorts of things and then on the morning I felt so rough and came down with the full lurgy the day after.  I know it's not ideal, but is there another one in a couple of weeks you could jump into?  There seems to be a few around at this time of year.

PP - sounds like a nice session.  My coach has me doing short hills.  I think that one thing to remember when doing hills is not to choose one that alters the form, so always go for gradual climbs rather that sharp ones that make you bend over from the waist.  I always imagine I'm being pulled up by a cycle and focus on one point up the hill that my legs are working towards getting to in good form.

06/05/2010 at 10:54

Awww I'm jealous - I have no hills - but I'm in Leeds this weekend and going to have a bash at 20 hilly miles on Sunday - I do find though that the recovery period at the top is the worse bit (when your legs are still really stiff) or is this just an occassional hill runner problem? 

06/05/2010 at 10:56
PhilPub all my running is done on hilly courses. I definitely think they have contributed to my relatively quick return to fitness. I do exactly the same hilly fartlek session plus a reverse where I run slow uphill and fast downhill.
06/05/2010 at 11:05
Hilly sorry to hear that. Tricky business getting to the starting of a marathon 100 percent. Thought I'd done so well as I didn't miss a days training! Unfortnately this is the only one I would be able to do over the next couple of months so will have to have a real think about what to do. Have thought of just plodding round it  for the experience if I don't feel too bad but don't know if this would do more harm than good. I have entered Mablethorpe in October but was really looking forward to this one. Did you decide against doing another?
06/05/2010 at 11:16
Hilly wrote (see)
Having looked at the link Moraghan posted about backwards running I decided to look it up as I have heard that it is acutally beneficial to runners, but I've never really looked into it.  I found this which is rather intersting.  There's a lot about boxers and other sports, but plenty in there to why it would be good for running. What do other's think?

Having not read all of it, but reading through the anecdotes in the distance running section, it seems to be an evangelistic diatribe with little behind it (excuse the pun).  The impact on an untrained runner would appear to be the same as the stats lauded around interval training for the same period - quick to bring you up to fitness - and performed in the same way with hard work followed by easy work and a progression of the hard work.  How long can it progress for?

The mechanics of backwards running are similar to those of sprinting, and the knee injury avoidance principles appear to be the same as those followed by many runners, in landing on the toes.  There has been a pushback against weighted knee extensions in recent years due to the stress over the knee.  I defer to my consultants and physios here.

Runners in the finish time alluded to can easily have a sprint finish as it is using fibres that haven't been used much for the rest of the race.  Not so much true for the elites.

Moraghan is absolutely right that running is not a whole body sport improving overall athleticism.  I find that out every time I try to train with my son's football team.  But I don't do football training because I want to run distance well, not sprint and cut on a football field, which caused my knee injuries years ago.  I haven't had a knee injury since getting form correction.

I don't feel any pain in my knee when I'm sitting down at my desk.  So it must be doing my knee good, right?


Oh, and PhilPub, I did exactly that for fartlek just the other night, challenging the hills and resting on the downslope.  I went out without my HRM, it was quite refreshing!  Although, trying to stick a set HR on a hilly course causes the reverse, with easy restful uphills and mad downhills.

06/05/2010 at 11:20
Zion wrote (see)
Hilly sorry to hear that. Tricky business getting to the starting of a marathon 100 percent. Thought I'd done so well as I didn't miss a days training! Unfortnately this is the only one I would be able to do over the next couple of months so will have to have a real think about what to do. Have thought of just plodding round it  for the experience if I don't feel too bad but don't know if this would do more harm than good. I have entered Mablethorpe in October but was really looking forward to this one. Did you decide against doing another?

I agree with this completely - its what seems to seperate the really good from the best...sometimes its bad luck, sometimes its training problems and sometimes its lack of robustness, but its so hard to give up on something that you've trained for for such a long time. I do hope you are well enough to run it - but if not try to think of it as training in prep for October rather than anything wasted.

06/05/2010 at 11:33
Curly45 you've hit the nail on the head - so hard to give up on something you've trained for for such a long time - this is what I'm really struggling with at the moment The sensible bit  knows it's all good training in the bank but I wanted something to show for it!! Running is an interesting journey for sure
06/05/2010 at 11:36

Another fan of hills here. I kind of have to be, living in Leeds! I think you can get all sorts of various training benefits from them. One of my most challenging workouts is 6-8 miles tempo effort over a hilly route (Kenyan hills?), I am very tired the next day after this one. I also have a route which is undulating all the way round but becomes hilly in the last 4/5 miles - I use this quite often for a long run - kind of mental and physical practice for the final stages of a marathon.

Because most of my routes are bumpy I take less notice of pace and more on effort with the occasional visit to the track to see where I am at in real pace terms.

Have to say though, when I am knackered I really hate hills

06/05/2010 at 11:40

I need to do hills - though being in Fife I have none

I was considering doing some form hills drills during my next base period (winter, probably). I would agree that they're great for strengthening. 

06/05/2010 at 11:41

Sue - you must have done Leeds parkrun at some point then - small hill, big effort on the 3rd lap

I think we're doing Hull this Saturday...should be interesting, relatively flat I think.

I need to go to the track later but have a serious case of the CBAs right now...might go this evening instead 

06/05/2010 at 11:43
Duck - I live in central London - I have zero hills! I think my usual run has about 30ft of elevation change
06/05/2010 at 11:46
Do you ever run in Hyde Park? I was on a weekend break with my OH there a few weeks ago and I got up specifically early so I could run through Hyde Park (we stayed by Victoria Bus Station). It was 6.30am and amazingly tranquil.
06/05/2010 at 11:50
Curly - no I haven't done the Leeds parkrun, it's the other side of Leeds to me, plus Saturdays are really busy for me with various kids clubs etc so I schedule my day off then to allow some family time.
06/05/2010 at 11:53

Curly, can you make it up to Primrose Hill, or take a tube to the Heath?  Hampstead has some lovely hilly bits.  Which area are you based in?

Any of the Northern Line tube stations in the central area have some pretty challenging stairs! 

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