The Middle Ground

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06/12/2012 at 16:00

Curly - A mere niggle! (Hopefully)

Mr V - The faster you run the greater the grip, so get out there and knock out some sub 5 min/mile stuff.

06/12/2012 at 16:54

 hello...

... been AWOL on account of not running for 2 weeks ... and then getting Windows 7 installed, which seemed to disable my ability to log in to RW.

I see PRF has planned out a few races ... and I've spotted Hilly's and YD's speedy 10M racing on bookface.  I'd read back further but, to be honest, I really can't be arsed

I had 2 weeks of full rest after the Abbey Dash - an end-of-season treat, even though I probably didn't deserve it. But on Monday I re-started with a double run commute (2x5M), repeated it yesterday, and will do it again tomorrow. I'd like to try to get these doubles embedded into my work-week routine as it's a very time-efficient way of getting my running slotted into my work day.

I have had to contend with icey pavements Mr V ... although I've done better than two of my work mates who both came off their bikes on Monday morning.

PhilP ... yep, my full-out HR on the bike (turbo trainer) over an 8-minute session (following warm-up) only averages out to about 85% of my "running" maxHR.

Edited: 06/12/2012 at 16:56
06/12/2012 at 17:47
Y D wrote (see)

. Stevie – no my PBs are a mixed bag now. The recent 5 mile (28:20) and 10 mile (59:15) times are in line, 5k (17:16) might be ready to come down a bit but isn’t too far out of line, HM (81:06) is soft and 10k pb (36:50) has the same average pace as my 10 mile PB, so is ridiculously soft.


I think there's a bit more to squeeze out of that 10miler. Into the 58s certainly.

All about that sweet spot race I guess. I did a 5miler and a 10miler within 5 weeks of each other both last year and this year. Took 9 seconds off the 5miler, yet 1:15 off the 10miler, so it can be a funny old game.

Bizarrely both years I did a 10k in the middle of the 2, and both came out underpar...sun last year, wind this year. I wonder if I'm jinxed with 10ks!

Am in a similar boat with your 10k to 10m paces....pbs at the moment have 5.41 for the 10k, and 5.42 for the 10m. I'd sugest that 10k is odds on to go next time out, especially as i hit a new pb within a 10miler at GSR...but that'd be foolishly tempting fate.

06/12/2012 at 20:30

Just a few races planned then PRF!

The double commute sounds good YD. If only work wasn't 26 miles away...

Great run with club tonight. I hadn't run since Monday (issues with alarm on Tuesday followed by a whistlestop trip to the South Coast). I found myself running with one of the faster runners for the first mile, before he put his foot down. I got out three miles at what was MP back in June, quite comfortably, before loopng back to join with some others at a more sedate pace. I would have pushed the tempo further were it not for the race on Sunday. A good sign that fitness is coming back though. Going to write reports now.

06/12/2012 at 20:55

Evening everyone, phew it is icy out there right now.

Hilly, hope BR is showing some improvement soon. 

Curly, good luck with the pot hunting! No good with a niggle though 

A distinctly prf race schedule there prf 

Mr V - yeah, go for it. Why not? 

Dan, I like doubles (but don't do enough right now to justify them)! As you say a great way of getting 10+ done in a day.

Mr Viper wrote (see)

Anyone else got awful running conditions to contend with? Every pavement is around here is an icy death trap at the moment.

It is absolutely trecherous here right now. Yesterday it took a collegue 2 and a half hours to get in from his house and he only lives 8 or so miles away! Driving is a no go.

...having said that, with fresh snow most nights, running conditions, while slower, aren't too bad. Thankfully the last 3 days have been all easy but haven't even been able to do strides as I'm afraid of hitting some ice. 

4M Tuesday and Wednesday, then a shade under 9M @ 7:40/m today was good. Proms 3k tomorrow, however given how the conditions are right now I expect it to be cancelled. Even if it isn't, if there isn't a massive thaw tonight I probably won't race as it simply isn't worth a broken ankle at this stage. The backup is an XC session with mum so I'll get some quality done at least.

06/12/2012 at 21:19

We seem to be ok conditions wise compared to what others are experiencing, a bit of slippiness yesterday but nothing worth moaning about.

Wardi - that York race certainly became the Rowntree 10 by the early 90s so it could well have been that club that organised it while it was called the York 10.

 

10.0 miles @ 8:45/mile in the rain this evening. Pleasant enough

06/12/2012 at 21:43

Good luck nursing that Curly.

Duck/MrV/far flung northern folk - Newspaper headlines down here this morning were all about the light dusting of snow wreaking the usual havoc on the train tracks, with the obligatory quote from the London-based Scandinavian telling us how they never have these problems where he's from, but quite honestly we've had it easy down here for running.  A frosty track on Tuesday evening but other than that I've put my gloves on and managed as per normal.

 Right, new ''marathon pace'' protocol for the foreseable future: running according to HR and keeping a lid on it at 165 = 81% max.  This evening, that resulted in 13M incl. 10M in 60:00.  Max HR was 168; it spiked every now and then when I found myself over-compensating for a stiff head wind, but mile split averages went 152, 159, 162, 162, 165, 164, 165, 164, 164, 166, so it worked out pretty well.  Should be good for sub- 6 min miling in better conditions. 

I guess this means I'm ''training through'' for the XC on Saturday.

Edited: 06/12/2012 at 22:07
07/12/2012 at 09:53

It's looking good for VLM with 5 months to go PP.

No worries with ice or snow here recently. 7 gentle miles this morning. Cold and wet!

07/12/2012 at 10:54

Phil, very nice! prf will enjoy that one I think 

3k is cancelled. Well, rescheduled. Happens to this series all the time so no big deal. 

07/12/2012 at 11:04

Phil - I like that one.

07/12/2012 at 13:36

Went up to Balgownie for some XC tempo-ing instead of racing. Last time I was here (in nice, frosty conditions) I averaged 7:01/m. Today, same course, very snowy and slippery underfoot, did 3M in 19'49 (6:36/m). Felt difficult (tempos remind me why I do short distance) but not a bad session bagged. 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/261417_10151371478068689_452226032_n.jpg

 As you can see, not the best conditions ever! Nice red shoes though 

07/12/2012 at 13:46

CB ... nice progress. You'll be back to full fitness soon enough... good luck with the reports.

Duck ... bad luck on the 3K. Looks like your winter training is going well.
Edit/XPOST ... nice pace in the snow!

PhilPub ... that new ''marathon pace'' protocol is a textbook Hadd "ILTHR session". Impressive pace for sub-LT . If you can do those consistently without the pace slowing, then it's supposed to be okay to increase the HR ceiling by a few % and still remain sub-LT.

5M commute run this morning was hard work despite the slow pace... so I'm really not looking forward to the return leg.

Edited: 07/12/2012 at 13:47
07/12/2012 at 14:15

Dan - Yeah, that makes sense.  I'm planning to run at the same effort level, maybe doing this session every other week, progressing the distance out to 15/16 miles, in the hope that (a) I can shave a few seconds off the pace and (b) I can maintain the pace without any drift, thereby convincing myself that it could genuinely be marathon pace.  The problem I find at the moment if I try to run to actual marathon race HR (high 160s - 170) in the middle of heavy training, is that perceived effort is far too high and it's a real slog. Being able to run sub-maximal, as it were (not that it's easy!), also helps me concentrate on form and efficiency.  I want 6m/m to feel as easy as possible in four months' time.

Duck - red with day-glo laces; the winter edition!  Good work fella.

6.5 easy at lunchtime. I can only imagine the harsh conditions up north, because the only discomfort was a stiff northerly wind, but the sun was out making for a reasonably pleasant run. 

BTW, has everyone on fetch given up for the month?  I'm 8th on the monthly training league! 

07/12/2012 at 21:10

Mr V, as Phil says it seems much more pleasant down here. I am still a bit sick of it though. I just seem permanantly cold at the moment.

Dr D, the rest has probably done you good. I ran to and from work last winter and the miles did add up a bit. But I found they fatigued me quite a bit doing them every day.

Good news on return of fitness, CB.

Promising pace for HR there, Phil. I do find your training easy to follow since we have the same max HR.

Nice foot strike, Duck.

I had a good session in miserable weather last night. I did the same as last week: 8 x 200m in 24 then 4 x 100 in 15.5. This virus seems to be on the way out and I've managed 50 miles this week. It's so nice to be able to get some proper training in finally. Hear that, Duck: 15.5/100m. That's my new 800m pace. My turn this year

And I've been reading Coe's recently-released autobiography. It's very interesting stuff so far

WJH
08/12/2012 at 13:38

Been a while but thought i'd rather have a few things to feedback from recently rather than just report on mileage...

First off;

Curly - hope your niggle has cleared up now. I liken my niggles akin to a game of jenga...constantly trying to balance things out. Once one niggle goes, another shows up from nowhere! 

Wardi - great XC result!

YD - excellent pacing by the looks of things and great 10 mile result last weekend.

Hilly - nice result as well for your 10 miler! Always good to perform better than you expect on the day! 

PhilPub - great training as always...another league altogether. 

Duck - nice trainers....looks very cold up there! Talking weather...it could be more wintry country wide next week regarding more widespread snowfall but nowhere near as bad as the Daily Express likes to predict!  The forecast for the latter part of next week is on a knife edge at the moment and it could turn out to be widespread rain in most places rather than snow. 

Simon - some good training and mileage too and good progress on a return to form. Did you really do 8X 200 metres in 24 seconds?  More good mileage from Mr Viper too. 

Parkrunfan - that's a lot of planned races!

As for myself, I have been ticking along nicely...and feel like my base fitness is getting stronger. 18 miles in total last week Monday to Sunday 2nd (missed out getting my long run in last Sunday what with my hockey season taking hold). But I should be comfortably above 30 for this week by the end of tomorrow. Key sessions have included a few tempo runs. I've held back from more focused speed work recently although will start programming this in now with the Stubbington 10k up next as a key race in January.

I have ran a 2 park runs over the last two weekends...both at Netley Abbey (outskirts of Southampton). Both days have seen the course altered a little. Last week, I almost turned up late with my partner...this was due to heavy fog on the motorway and underestimating how this would add to the journey...managed to turn up and run and although I had my watch set up, I was unable to see my mile splits or time with the HR monitor set up taking hold on my screen! However, it was good to pace myself around without the aid of this (so a sort of positive benefit)...and finished in 20:16. It was nice to claw my way through the field for once and managed to finish in 7th place in temperatures hovering around freezing. My mile splits were fairly consistent as well ranging between 6:28 and 6:40. 

I also ran Netley Abbey again today but left my barcode at my partners - opps! We usually do Parkruns together so that will teach me not to have a few copies of it. Anyhow, I finished today in an unofficial time of 20:03 on my watch in 6th position (seems accurate as I was right behind 5th place who finished in 20:02). I was close to finishing 4th but couldn't quite catch the two directly in front. The winner who finished in sub 18 minutes was just about a minute outside their PB on this course. This could have been reflecting the more undulating course (compared to last week) making for a slower time. Happy with today's run though depsite showing as an unknown finisher. This followed an unofficial 5k time trail at my club on Tuesday which I finished in 19:25 (PB for this fast and flat unofficial time trail is 18:05 set in August 2010 so I feel that things are progressing nicely now).....

Edited: 08/12/2012 at 13:39
WJH
WJH
08/12/2012 at 13:40

.....plans for the next few weeks are to add in speed training as noted and to run one or two more parkruns hopefully. Either my partner or I may possibly run Bushy Park parkrun on the 22nd as we are in Teddington that weekend. 

Going out for another jog now...nice and steady....and will try and fit another one in tomorrow. 

Edited: 08/12/2012 at 13:40
WJH
08/12/2012 at 13:53

Duck - That picture just makes me want to do some snowy runs. but it also reminds me that I'd better get some trail shoes this time around......

And a good pace in those conditions.

Simon - If you can get 50 miles worth of running done in a week that must give you some confidence that there cant be too much wrong?

WJH - Nice to see parkruns being used to get your fitness boosted and looks like a very positive last couple of weeks.

 

And in a similar vein it was Mansfield parkrun this morning, a bit twisty in places but other than that a really good course.

In line with expectations it provided another step forwards on the upswing with the first post marathon sub 19 clocking - 18:51 (6:04/mile) with each mile being progressively quicker than the previous one. Perfect session.

Some old crock from Barnsley finished first despite pulling out injured 5 minutes before the start....

08/12/2012 at 14:31

Phil - Pretty tasty session there. You could/should be on for a cracking marathon time.

Simon - Nice session, great that you are finally able to get some decent training in.

WJH - Looks like decent 5king going on with you.

PRF - Nice continued steady progress. I need to get in a smackdown with you before you are back up to full speed

Pleasing session for me this morning. 17.15 miles @ 7.19 average pace. This consisted of 10 miles easy (7.52s) followed by 7@MP (6.34s). Pretty happy to hit bang on MP for the last 7 miles with 10 miles already in the legs. Especially so as my legs are feeling a little heavy in general with the extra mileage I'm doing. 10.5 planned tomorrow to bring up another week of 70.

08/12/2012 at 14:58

PRF wrote: "Some old crock from Barnsley finished first despite pulling out injured 5 minutes before the start.... "  I do hope that you are not talking about our friend Hilly.

Burnage parkrun for me: watching. Walked 3k off road, which is a new post Achilles record. Feels a bit strained now: good job I am at the Alehouse Christmas meal with running doc friend this evening.

08/12/2012 at 15:23

NIce parkrunning PRF and WJH. Good mileage Simon, 50 miles when feeling pants and demotivated isn't bad!

Duck - I'm envious of the snow! We're just getting cold rain and sleet. Dry today so I'm hoping for a frost before the mud of Tatton tomorrow.

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