The Middle Ground

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12/12/2012 at 09:12

BR.. old habits die hard at my age!  

Good too see you enjoying the new (old) club.

12/12/2012 at 09:15

WJH - That's some schedule!  Say hello to my boss in Nijmegen and see you in Chichester! ...and TR.

YD - Nice session. Intervals a couple of days after a particularly long run can be one of the harder parts of a marathon training schedule for me, so good to get used to that sort of thing.

robT - Very nice 10k.  Good luck in the outdoors - mind the icy bits.

Wardi - If I could shot put 25 feet they'd probably invite me back!

BR - Enjoying running again.  Bloody marvellous!

I nearly didn't bother with last night's session because my hands were soooo cold on the warm-up jog, but glad I did.  Another "B+" session with the fast guys, 8 x 1k this time with 1 min recovery, good consistent times averaging 3:16/km.  My first ever interval session completed in a woolly hat. 

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 09:19
12/12/2012 at 09:16

Good morning.  Just thought I'd pop my head in because reading back is always worth a smile.  Not that I've read back loads - there's a bit much.

Not a good period for me, but as I might (fingers crossed) be shaking the second cold which came with a scuzzy chest I might be able to get some full length training runs back in, and that will hopefully lead me out of the slump.  Especially as Sunday mornings might start to be filled with frosted trees and carpets of white across the countryside.  Deep winter running is so much prettier than treading in the tree poo of autumn.

Did do the Wales regional XCs last Sunday, but with the heavy cough and cold.  So not a good result but very enjoyable nonetheless.  I have a vest, and East won at senior and masters.

Goals for next year I'm going to steal straight from BR.  Next year is going to be a proper track season after that Red Lion run.  I can't get anywhere near my short distance results over middle and longer distances, nor get the same satisfaction.  Maybe one day.

12/12/2012 at 09:21

Just for PRF, I think I just had the 22122nd post on the 12/12/12.  Not too shoddy...

12/12/2012 at 09:37

I have updated Sir RobT of WAVAsham's race for him.

Dash, Ratzer, Simon and YPup ... where are you hiding?

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (September-December) Calculator here: 

86.96% Sir RobT (10K, 34:28, September)
83.79% PhilPub (5,000m, 15:55.9, September)
82.34% Hilly (10M, 66:45, December) 
82.20% PRF (HM, 1:18:41, September)

77.71% SG, (10M, 57:09, October) 
77.41% Wardi (5K, 19:51, October) 
76.52% YD  (5M, 28.20, November) 
73.56% Duck (1500m, 4'39.9, September)
73.52% Dr.Dan (10K, 40:27, November) 
72:09% Minni (5m 35:11, November) 
71.43% MrV (5M 29.52 November) 
70.78% Curly (5M, 34:12, September)

59.56% CB (10K, 46:20, December)
35.8% BR (Dewsbury parkrun 5K, 39:30, September)

Out of date: 
70.17% YoungPup (5K, 19:36, July) 
78.83% Simon (4'26.73, August) 
76.18% Ratzer (200m, 27.55, August)

12/12/2012 at 10:47

Dr D, I'm keeping my out of date WAVA, ta

12/12/2012 at 11:01

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (September-December) Calculator here: 

86.96% Sir RobT (10K, 34:28, September)
83.79% PhilPub (5,000m, 15:55.9, September)
82.34% Hilly (10M, 66:45, December) 
82.20% PRF (HM, 1:18:41, September)

77.71% SG, (10M, 57:09, October) 
77.41% Wardi (5K, 19:51, October) 
76.52% YD  (5M, 28.20, November) 
73.56% Duck (1500m, 4'39.9, September)
73.52% Dr.Dan (10K, 40:27, November) 
72:09% Minni (5m 35:11, November) 
71.43% MrV (5M 29.52 November) 
70.78% Curly (5M, 34:12, September)

59.56% CB (10K, 46:20, December)

35.8% BR (Dewsbury parkrun 5K, 39:30, September) ... relegated by Mrs BR

0% Simon (0K, 00:00) - waaay too busy eating pies and blowing his nose
0% Ratzer (0K, 00:00) - reading science papers and building up to a 5 metre run
0% YoungPup (0K, 00:00) - not feeling quite young enough to enter a race
0% Dash (0K, 00:00) - busy breeding his prize Xmas turkey somewhere in Norfolk

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 11:03
12/12/2012 at 11:12

Non-WAVA Scorers Rule, 0K.

12/12/2012 at 11:36

So, I was reading this science paper, and realised that there is no way to go faster than no time at all.  Dividing 0 by 0 gave me an infinite amount which I could only assume meant I have the world record as it's the best speed possible.  Therefore I've just hit 100% WAVA.

But 0% will do.  It's a fair reflection.

12/12/2012 at 13:49

Sorry Stevie your right it was a bit long . The Gosport Golden Mile is one of two races that can be entered - that and a 5k. I am pretty sure it's being organised by a local running shop rather than my local club. It's stated on the website that you can enter both the 1 mile and 5k. The Promenade 5k's are midweek races over in Hillsea, Portsmouth whereas the date of the Gosport Golden Mile/5K is Sunday 2nd June. I am sure I have seen somewhere (possibly FB) that the races will be chip timed. A long way to go understandably but the course for both would be very flat - again

There are a fair few flat races about in these parts but in saying that Chichester is still a potential 40+ minute drive for me.

12/12/2012 at 17:52
Bah humbug to Dr Dan

My only race between Sept - December was the Cabbage Patch, and my 68:24 gives me a WAVA of 68.53. I can't add this to the table as I'm using my iPad, but will try and remember to do so next time I'm logged in with the laptop...

WJH - I'm also doing Chichester and Eastleigh 10ks, and it sounds like we're at a similar level. Look forward to maybe meeting you at one or the other, and hopefully we can both get a sub-40
12/12/2012 at 18:03

Shot put? I'm pretty weedy upper body. Could be interesting (read: hilarious). I'd have to throw 5.78m to beat Phil's WAVA. There might be a limit on the number of events you can do, but if I can I will!

I think WAVA improvement is a good idea. We have a pretty good idea of who is of what kind of standards (although keeping a track of actual %age would still be good) and as this thread is "Collaboration for Improvement" having an improvement table is probably a good idea. 

Simon, I'm kind of gutted there isn't a chance of doing a HJ or Pole Vault. 4:15 would be a huge time. I suspect your limiter eventually will be your flat 400 speed, so carving out some time for skill sprints/hills/plyometrics will pay off big time in the summer (I think you said you were doing it already IIRC).

Curly, didn't you say at some point last year you wanted to try the 800 at some point?

WJH, plenty of races and some good targets to aim for.

YD, I like that session, a good bit of variety on pace.

Did 4M this afternoon and I felt pretty heavy-legged, although had hardly eaten anything today up to that point. Had a promo event at work last night for Christmas which was a 5k run, mum ended up winning it pretty comfortably from what I heard (I was out on the course giving out free stuff). 

12/12/2012 at 18:34

BR - good attitude. Not sure I'll be smiling if I have a carp run. But (big but too) once I learned to stop wasting energy thinking about target times, strategies, MP and all the other bllx for far too many weeks and simply learned to promise myself that I will be the best I can be on the day regardless of how well the campaign does or doesnt go and regardless of what the day throws at me, I could relax until race day.

12/12/2012 at 20:35

Lots of posts, can't keep up in the week

Enjoyed reading some good posts there! 

Not sure I'm up for an improvement WAVA table as a bit hard for those at the top of their game to make improvements, but obviously plenty of opportunity for you youngsters and newer runners to knock us off our perches, so go on that's your challenge  As for top spot 48 year old over Sir Rob, I think I'd need a massive improvement, which might make me rethink that improvement table

Running is good at present, no real direction, just running, enjoying and rebuilding.


13/12/2012 at 08:56

Hilly – Glad you are enjoying your running again

Duck –Looking forward to the shot put report. I’ll reckon you’ll be setting up an account on shot putters world in no time.

Ratzer – Wondered where you had got to. Glad to see you were at least well enough to don your vest at the X country.

I went for a 5x1 mile session last night with 2 mins recovery and the aim of hitting 10 mile effort. It was more than a little hairy as there were about 5 sections on each rep covered in ice. So I had to slow to right down on each bit which did nothing for my rhythm or rep times! Thankfully I remained upright and reps averaged about 6.05. I suspect they would have been around or just under 6 had it not been for the ice. Will progress to 6x1 mile, then 3x2 and 2x3 in the coming weeks.

13/12/2012 at 10:26

Duck - I guess my upper body strength isn't too shabby for a runner, but those shots are definitely heavier than I remember from school days!! Then there's the small matter of lodging the thing comfortably between you chin and your shoulder.  Yeeowch!! I think my collar bone is a little more exposed than the average shot putter's.  But yeah, give it a go, you'll love it.

MrV - Good progression plan.

I extended my normal 7 to an easy 10 last night, knowing that I'd be planning just 7 w/ 4 tempo this evening instead of anything longer, so that I'm a bit fresher for this Saturday's XC.  I might even have a *gasp* rest day tomorrow.  Or a light jog.

13/12/2012 at 14:11

A couple of articles from runners life, nothing startling, but useful summaries all the same:
Long run:
Nutrition and immunity:

Looks like a good progressive plan Mr V, are you planning on doing any tempo/threshold type work in the lead up to BM? I have done a bit more of that from Oct onwards and I felt more comfortable when cruising at a higher pace as a result. I am certain it helped with my recent 5 / 10 mile races.

Good to see the enjoyment continuing Hilly, when are you racing next?

Good to see Ratzer back.

Duck – how are you finding training now you are working full time?

Phil – enjoy the rest day. Does the 10m tempo the other day mean you are now formally in Marathon build up?

Planning 12 or so miles tonight, it’s -4 outside at the moment, nice!

13/12/2012 at 14:52

YD – Yes definitely. I’ve already done a fair bit in training at the MP end of things, plus the faster side has been covered with a few races and cross country. I’ll be including more MP and some stuff at HMP/10 mile pace in future sessions. Probably 2 or 3 progressive sessions will be used which should help me cover the various paces.

Your mileage seems pretty decent at the moment. You must be around 60 a week at the moment?

13/12/2012 at 15:00

YD - useful summaries as you say, although it doesn't make the long run pacing/nutrition advice any clearer!  Loosely related... yes, I suppose I feel like I'm marathon training "proper" now, since I've formulated a plan for progressing the MP run right up till early April;  the rough plan is to give it a go every other week, building up something like Jan: 10-12, Feb: 12-14, March: 14-16 (plus w/u, c/d) to max 18 mile run total. 

At the same time, whilst I've already got some 20M runs under my belt, I've kept the pace nice and easy (see article re: mitochondria, capillaries, myoglobin shuttling, etc... hopefully all my indicators are looking good!) and will probably only concentrate on incorporating MP (+/- a bit) during Feb/March, to avoid burn-out.

Re: nutrition... although the second article didn't really tell me anything new, I am now thinking of incorporating dark chocolate into my regular diet.  Apart from all the antioxidants, iron, etc. it will help keep my hand out of the vending machine, which only serves up naughty milk chocolate! 

Edited: 13/12/2012 at 15:02
13/12/2012 at 15:34

...I've just watched the video in the first link and according to Ryan Hall I'm not doing it right.  Apparently you should be doing a sub-3 hour, 30 mile long run in the desert, stop, launch a couple of snot-rockets, then immediately recite a verse of "The Lark Ascending" by George Meredith whilst Vaughan Williams plays in the background.  Erm.. OK! 

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