The Middle Ground

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20/12/2012 at 20:11

Simon - like BR, I saw the schedule on one of the threads. Nonsense doesn’t quite cover it.

prf - if you can guarantee me a sub 3 on 30 miles per week I’m game! Why train more when you can sit at home eating expensive energy gels and still get results?

7.4miles in a monsoon this afty, calf muscles a bit sore today, bit of foam rolling tonight should cure it.

Edited: 20/12/2012 at 20:12
20/12/2012 at 21:14

After a red wine & chocolate combination last night (for numbing medicinal purposes of course) and one of the aforementioned painkillers this morning I did a gentle run today - 5.3m done without any pain.  Thanks for the info BR, I intend to try and run through it with due care & attention.  Last time I had a sore rib I used the same approach after a few days complete rest and it worked out ok.  As you say though, quite a long healing process!

Apart from the fact that 30-35mpw isn't enough for a very long distance event, I would be climbing the walls on that sort of mileage!  Putting good mileage into the campaign also gives the runner confidence come race day - as long as his/her legs haven't fallen off of course!

Y D.. good on you for getting out in it, the river is already very high here.

20/12/2012 at 21:15
20/12/2012 at 21:22

20/12/2012 at 22:06
Happy birthday Dave... and congrats on the post bagging Duck! Dave - I agree with Hilly, train at appropriate effort levels and see where you are nearer the time. Race time predictors are worth referencing but need to be backed up with hitting paces in "race pace" efforts.

Did my longest ever track session this evening as two of us dragged out the "threshold miles" session to 8 x 1600 w/ 30s recovery. Hit target pace nicely, all reps between 5:26 and 5:31, average 5:29. Very encouraging HR figures as well, with max before the final rep being 173, just below HM race average. 32 laps. That'll do!
20/12/2012 at 22:20

Good news, Wardi!

And good news, Curly: who would have thought we would get to 22222 posts!

Phil: that's a serious session! And serious question: is there any chance of doing some/alternate reps clockwise?

20/12/2012 at 23:06
alehouse wrote (see)

Phil: that's a serious session! And serious question: is there any chance of doing some/alternate reps clockwise?

By the time he got to the last few I expect everyone else had left the track...

Duck, well covered.  But all those twos aren't predicting a good future for your podium placings!

7 very slow, very wet miles for me this evening, missing the sprint session.  Most of the pathways round me were converted into streams.  And I'm not talking that half millimetre that crosses the road, I mean inches deep and flowing.  After a mile I figured there was no point trying to keep my feet dry, I might as well have been wearing flippers.

Actually I think that 30mpw is fine for a marathon as long as it's one long run, one tempo run, and one fast interval session.  The rest of the week should be filled with swimming and either pilates or yoga.  You could win ultramarathons on that.

20/12/2012 at 23:17

Had to randomly pop in like that  I was waiting around at work on my phone for that glorious moment....

Wardi, cracked ribs hopefully should heal quicker? In any case hope it heals quickly.

YD, sounds similar to my run today. Awful conditions at the moment everywhere, in some cases today I was slower running downhill than uphill due to the wind.

YP, it seems to vary. For the quicker, glycolytic stuff some say as quick as 10 days seems to yeild improvement from a single session(I personally have found 2 weeks seems to be a reasonable timeframe for 1500 and quicker improvements), yet for longer, aerobic training often 6-8 weeks for any noticable improvement. Yet what Simon says also rings true, technically improvement every day should be seen yet it seems to happen in blocks most of the time.

Ratzer, I haven't oifficially entered yet but I was talkign about it with someone from work yesterday who is definately up for it, so schedule permitting (I have asked for the day off, and given where I work it's very reasonably to get days off for this sort of thing) I will be there.

Also, I'd take a 2 if it related to a podium place at the nationals next year 

The Asics plans don't sound too good  shame really, it's a potentially good promotion tool if used correctly.

I'm running 30mpw for distances that are 52.4 and 104.8 times shorter respectively! Yet that seems to be recommended for mara training. I think the top end of  the thread has shown that that level of training won't cut it when it comes to 26.2. Well, at least they aren't using FIRST. Are they!? (wait, Ratzer gave it the ok. Never mind)

9M this morning, in a howling gale. 7:58/m was harder than it should have been, legs pretty dead for the most part but got it done before the sun had risen so won't complain. 

21/12/2012 at 10:06
Ratzer wrote (see)
By the time he got to the last few I expect everyone else had left the track...

Not quite!  Thursday is popular with some of the youngsters, who seem to be doing a right mixed bag of shorter reps and drills along with proper circuit type things with press-ups and things on steps.  They were at it for ages.  It's quieter than Tuesdays but I think we'd still be a bit of a liability going the wrong way round.  Maybe Saturday morning... I did cycle round Herne Hill velodrome the wrong way once.  Weird experience; I'm sure the bankings were steeper! 

21/12/2012 at 14:21

Oh yeah...

Y D wrote (see)


Massive foodie kudos points if you can make a scotch egg yet keep the yolk runny PP

Last year (as far as I recall; I was a bit tipsy sitting down to Xmas supper!) the yolk was nice and yellow and sort of gently firm, just beyond runny.  That was after soft-boiling the eggs and then oven baking for 25 minutes.  This year I'm taking Heston's tips for a runny yolk: a very quick deep-fry to brown the outside, then bake for just 10 minutes in a hot oven.  Wish me luck.


21/12/2012 at 14:28

Seriously good session Phil. I joined Ratzer and YD with 7 easy, soggy miles.

Nice post bagging Duck.

21/12/2012 at 15:05

Very jealous of PP's session, remembering when I could knock those out (albeit at 30 secs / mile slower).

On the plus side I've managed 4 x 8m runs this week at between 7:30 and 8:30 pace but every one has felt uncomfortable and sluggish.  A long road back and I can't think about any races except VLM now.

21/12/2012 at 15:24

Great session PP.   I always love the feeling when a good session is executed well!

Well done on the early morning run, Duck.  Howling wind are my worse kind of weather for running!

Plenty of soggy miles around here too like the others.  Feet constantly wet!  Bring on spring and summer training, then we can all moan about it being too hot

22/12/2012 at 11:39
BR - all good cake baking I'm sure, even if it feels like a stodgy pudding.

Where is everyone? Breast-stroking their way round various parkruns maybe... Crazy early start for me with a very wet pre-brekky 20 miler. We managed to up the pace for 5.1 at the end @ 6:06/m. Very pleased with that and felt pleasantly un-battered when I got home by 10am. Breakfast went down a treat. Might have a nap before I start on the scotch eggs.
22/12/2012 at 12:21

Breast stroking? How about struggling to stay upright! 40 (yes, fourty) mph winds today meant I changed the route to finish under a bridge nearby (thankfully it only needed reversing + a little bit added on). Almost impossible to keep balance standing up and the race was won in 21 minutes - a full 3 mins off the runner's pb. Everyone agreed this was the windiest parkrun ever (and considering this is probably the windiest parkrun in the country that's saying something). 

The wind is just laughable here. I was going to do 8*400 today but there's just no point. It's going to be even worse tomorrow. 

22/12/2012 at 13:06

BR - Sorry to hear of your continuing running woes. I'll sure it will come good eventually though. You're much too good a runner for it not to.

Phil - That sounds like a hard session. If that isn't knackering you out then you must be very fit right now!

Duck - Sounds awful! Very windy here as well though not quite that bad...

11 miles for me today with 7.2 at a decent clip. Very hilly route in the pouring rain and howling wind. Average pace of the faster bit was 6.30 which all things considered must have been worth a fair bit faster. Realised today I've put on nearly half a stone in the last 3 weeks . Need to lose that before the Brass Monkey though its not the best time of year for doing that!

Edited: 22/12/2012 at 13:08
22/12/2012 at 13:52

BR, have you had anything like this in the past? I had something kind of similar after I got back from the US a few years ago, every run left my legs feeling trashed, even at quite slow paces (relatively speaking of course). It eventually worked its way out of my system over a few weeks. Just reminded me of that.

Mr V, nice paces there, especially in the conditions you had. Treat yourself to xmas  then be fastidious afterwards! I'm planning a few days of not caring too much what I eat (I've done really well the past 3 months) then really cracking down before the duathlon and the indoor races I have planned (I really want to crack a 1500 as I'm in good shape right now). 

Felt more like myself today, got out for 4M w/strides and for the first time this week an easy run felt good. I think last Sunday took a fair bit out of me even though I ran less than 2k overall! 

Have an xmas day parkrun to look forward to and I really think I have a legitimate shot of winning it. Now that would be a good running present to get 

22/12/2012 at 14:25

Wind, rain, floods. It's almost apocalypctal (now where did I read something about an apocalypse)

No wind to speak of here but a few local roads are flooded making shopping fun! Found a gap in the rain yesterday afternoon to get in 9 miles with 7@mp.

22/12/2012 at 20:51

Wardi, good that you can run without pain. Coincidentally I managed to do something to my rib in the gym the other day. It now hurts taking deep breaths and sneezing etc. I think I must have very weak ribs.

Phil, a very nice "cruise interval" session on the track for you the other day and nice mileage this morning. I try and warm up and cool down clockwise on the track

I've managed to see that Asics schedule. It is without a doubt the worst I've seen. BR and HIlly are making very good points on the plateau thread BTW. I know opinions and athletes vary when it comes to MD for example, but I find it hard to believe that anybody can argue such a low mileage is sufficient for a marathon. I mean, 30 MPW is what I was doing when racing 800/1500 over the summer and deliberately staying fresh.

Mr V, is the weight gain due to Christmas build up? I've lost count of the number of mince pies and alcoholic drinks I've turned down in the last couple of weeks. Nice pace, and you should get an extra boost if some of the weight comes off.

Duck, crazy weather.I look forward to seeing what you can do for 1500. I don't think you've realised your potential over that or the mile. Duatholon? Wha?

Aa sodding wet Nonsuch this morning. I got absolutely drenched and covered in mud, but it was great fun.

Me and the missus are doing Bushy on Christmas Day (SPO? Pah!). It'll be her first and the plan is to have her hooked by spring when I can start planning trips away around them less deviously.

23/12/2012 at 07:45

MrV / Duck - thanks.  This week will be my first 70+ for a while as I am now just trying to put the right consistent effort in and all I can do is wait for the results to come out the other end.  I've done 14 x 100m strides in the middle of an 8 mile run which left me feeling like I'd run a very hard session.  Yesterday I did an 18:28 parkrun in full wind and waterproof coat and hat on a compact trail surface.  Competitive edge was there but again it was slower than I would have expected 6 months ago.  I'm not putting myself on the racing line again until I'm satisfied I can give a reasonable account of myself and shall continue with the parkruns as testers and small steps in the week. 

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