The Middle Ground

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23/12/2012 at 16:36
Good mileage BR, really hope you start seeing some benefits soon.

I've just realised Duck said he's doing a duathlon! What's that all about then? What distances? Have you bought any elasticated laces yet?

51 wet and windy bike miles this morning. I also weighed myself for the first time in about six months. 11st 5, 5 lbs heavier than January, but I'm definitely fitter. Must be muscle!
23/12/2012 at 16:48

Simon, our parkrun instigator's going to do Bushy too. Hope you enjoy it! 

BR, consistent consistency, long term game plan etc.... I know you're experienced enough to make it work. Hope you start to get another upwards curve of improvement soon.

Phil, I'll be using my Inov8 150s which have elastic laces as standard! 4k run/14k bike/4k run. Just something a bit different to try out  No idea what to expect, but I'm looking forward to it. Need to get on the turbo trainer a bit beforehand 

The wind has gone, pretty much overnight  down the track for 8*200 (200 walk) today. 30.9, 30.6, 30.0, 30.0, 29.4, 29.5, 29.7, 29.4. Really relaxed, never felt like I was pushing the pace which is great. 

Also, this picture of yesterday pretty much sums up the conditions. 

Edited: 23/12/2012 at 17:04
23/12/2012 at 17:09

Hello! Sorry been a bit busy this week, not sulking or injured just working lots, running and organising!

alehouse wrote (see)

Good news, Wardi!

And good news, Curly: who would have thought we would get to 22222 posts!

Phil: that's a serious session! And serious question: is there any chance of doing some/alternate reps clockwise?

I was surprised even to hit two to be honest Alehouse

Good to see some awesome sessioning from Philpub this week, some good post bagging from Duck and a good return to consistent runnng (if not electrifying) from BR

50.6 miles for me this week, including 18.4 miles lsr today slogged out after a tough 7.8m XC yesterday... ran well but a little lacking in the mental side to be honest. Need to refill that section of the well over the next few weeks with training and enjoying myself.

Working all day tomorrow, but loving work at the moment. Didnt get the other job (apprentice for a strength and conditioning company based near Hampton that help athletes with the cross training side of stuff). Looked interesting but okay with job no.1 at the moment

23/12/2012 at 17:10

Love the picture Duck and some tasty times there for a relaxed run - you were getting those times by pushing quite hard recently if I remember rightly so shows some improvement

23/12/2012 at 20:06

Good training going on again guys and girls

Simon - indeed, it is mind boggling to see how any coach could justify and advocate 30 miles per week for a marathon whereby endurance is the biggest factor in performing over that distance!  I hope the guy manages to do well as he is believing in her advice!

18 miles for me today, which wasn't great, but it's miles in the bank for London and now hopefully 2 weeks of running, sleeping and eating to give a boost to fitness before the return to work!

23/12/2012 at 20:11

That `Plateau' thread is guided by a Level 2 coach.  I hope that that level 2 qualification is in endurance training, although she does not seem to show much `deep' knowledge or expertise.  Her other half is a 2:28 marathoner, so you'd think she'd know a bit, but she's not from the fine tradition of British club coaching like Steve Smythe or Mike Gratton.  I wonder if she's been surrounded by competitive runners with our ethos or wannabes willing to pay for 1:1 coaching sessions?

23/12/2012 at 20:25

How highly rated is a "level 2 coach" by the way?

I ask, as a chap at my old club who used to put on sessions was one.

And all of his sessions were always a miscellaneous amount of reps, random recoveries,no guidance whatsoever on pace,  and low volume, or wacky stuff like firing a firework into the air and when it went bang you'd sprint torwards it

Edited: 23/12/2012 at 20:26
23/12/2012 at 21:07

I would suggest that most people on this thread are well beyond Level 2 in their understanding of running.

23/12/2012 at 23:32
If anyone gets running times there's a famtastic article in the january/ february 2013 edition called "the dirty dozen" about the twelve most common mistakes even experienced runners make. Great read and hits home a bit. I can't find the article online but hope it will come online soon. Got a bit tired of reading couch to 5k plans...

Couple of other good articles this month too with a bit of depth about training.

No i'm not a running times salesperson but people on here seem quite knowledgable and it's a good article...
24/12/2012 at 06:43

I've red through that whole thread...

Plan shocking, but thats no surprise. Attitude of "coach" was the worst bit, dismissive, rude and arrogant.  And now asking him to give up booze and snacks when he would lose weight by running some more. Funny how that fixes everything isnt it

Right off for the busiest shift of the year and then its party time!

24/12/2012 at 07:43

He'll be giving up cheese next and where will that leave the world??

24/12/2012 at 08:17

tommygunn - I don't think I'm familiar with Running Times - is it a UK magazine?

Personally when it comes to coaching I don't look necessarily whether someone has a qualification, although  in a club that will be the person who sets sessions, I look at how knowledgeable and experienced in running a person is. 

24/12/2012 at 08:24

A level 2 coach can set and take individual sessions.  However you need to be on level 3 or 4 before you are licensed to develop a programme for a runner or groups of runners. 

24/12/2012 at 11:03

Morning.  Reasonable miles for me yesterday at 13.5 with two grade five climbs in there (grading for the bikers...).  Did a double loop and the first was very slow because of running with a partner, but the second I did alone and quite a bit quicker even for a slow pace.  Athletics is on a break, so like Hilly it's getting the miles in and eating, sleeping, drinking and waking up feeling like the world did end for the next couple of weeks.  Supposed to be around 55mpw at the moment but you know how plans work, best intentions and all that.  Probably veering between 35 and 50 over the last few weeks depending on work.

Didn't do my summary of the year yet.  So:
Fastest 5k, 10M, HM and Full.  Ever.
Fastest 100m and 200m in nearly 25 years.  When age-graded, the 200m becomes my all-time PB!
Fastest 1500 in nearly 25 years.
Selected and ran for East Wales in the Welsh Regional xc championships at V40.

That's the summary that makes it all look good.  In reality nothing is improving as quickly or easily as consistent training would allow.  Inconsistency is due to a multitude of factors, some definitely avoidable, some much less so.  Motivation for VLM is not as high as it should be - so I've switched my personal message slightly.  Now it's 'get sub-3 at this one and you don't have to do one again'.

Goals for next year:
PBs at 100m, 200m and 400m.

(See which direction my motivation's gone?)

24/12/2012 at 11:32
Hilly it's an american one and is genuinely really good for training stuff.

I suppose i will hijack now i'm here...i pb'd at 3,000, 5k, 5 mile and 10k this year. Basically a pb every time i ran. This was due to a massive increase in core strength and hill work meaning i could get more consistency and less niggles.

Goals for this year:
Sub 35 10k
Sub 80 half
Sub 17 5k
To spend as little time ad possible with the physio...
24/12/2012 at 12:38

Ratzer - looks to have been a fine year when written down  Maybe time would allow you to concentrate more on the shorter distances and forget the marathon.  Or is the marathon a burning desire to conquer?

Thanks tommygunn, I do recall reading it now.  I read the USA RW forums/online magazine a few times and believe it is a better quality read than the UK one, although I don't suppose I should say that on here

Nice race time goals for the next year!

My only goals for 2013 at present is to keep injury/illness free, be consistent and more specific with my training, race as much as I can without getting injured and give London marathon a good go!  Of course I might add more goals as time goes by

A short run this morning and off to the gym soon. 


24/12/2012 at 12:50

Tommy, I share a couple of those goals. I know 1sub 1hr 20 is a nice round number, but that should be sub 1hr 17 to be in sync with the others.

For me, goals would be


  • Keep enjoying training
  • Keep injury free
  • Do some new races


  • Sub 17 5k,
  • Sub 35 10k
  • 1:16:xx half

If the Section 1 aims come to pass, those section 2 goals should be pretty doable on paper imminently on current fitness.

But we know running never seems to work like that

Actually doing more than 1 5k in a calendar year might help! And not getting arsey conditions or DNS ing at target races of the others would help too.

Edited: 24/12/2012 at 12:54
24/12/2012 at 12:53

Ratzer- Good year from you then! Mine isn't so impressive so I'll avoid putting it down....

Curly - Consistent training from you. And good that you are enjoying work.

Duck - Speedy session. It's weird how quickly the wind has gone isn't it.

16 very hilly miles for me yesterday and 11 very hilly ones this morning. Calfs not enjoyed it at all and very stiff now! I've just sorted train, hotel and entry for Dewsbury. Best part of £100 lighter so hoping a) It isn't cancelled from bad weather and b) I run a stonking PB 

24/12/2012 at 12:59
I've never done a half though stevie so dunno what to expect. Strength not too bad and 35:29 in a 10k so hopefully will break it.

Ha this thread isn't too bad hilly from anything i read so not entirely sacrilege...

I subscribed to running times after getting a bit sick of runners world. To be honest you can get most of what you want on internet.
24/12/2012 at 13:05

fair does Tommy, is probably a fair adjusted target for a first one.

My first one was 1hr 41 as a contrast. But within a month that was down to 1hr 34. And that was off a lot more casual training to say the least!

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