The Middle Ground

22,361 to 22,380 of 28,546 messages
01/01/2013 at 20:33

Marathon training now Stevie, need to get the miles in. That’s my MLR for this week. I will use the session, or something similar close to Marathon day, making MP feel easy is the order of the day.

01/01/2013 at 20:38

wow, a 13+ as a medium long run...i'm certainly staying the heck away from marathons!

01/01/2013 at 21:01

Funnily enough I was going to mention the medium long run, in particular to WJH. I was recently wishfully re-reading "Running with the Legends" whilst recuperating from the Achilles op: the key thing that strikes me, whether de Castella, Shorter, Rodgers or almost alll of the other marathoners, was that every week there was the long run and at least one medium long run, so 2 to 2.30 for the long run, and 1.30 for the mediums, as approximations. Seems to work well for others, too.



01/01/2013 at 21:47

WJH - I wouldn't have passed you as I was standing at the finish having had to dnf after hobbling around Southampton in a 20:45, a mere 3:33 slower than I had run on a similar course at Glasgow exactly a year ago.  It seems at present I can run on flat surfaces, in slightly more cushioned shoes than the 130s, at any pace from 6:40 to 9:00.  Anything else and the calf tightens.  However when I press in, there's no pain.  My lower back hurts a lot, and I think it's referred pain from there.  My current plan of attack is lots of stretching, massage and core work whilst maintaining what running I can.

Of course, it's the County XC Championships on Saturday, and I really want to represent the club...

01/01/2013 at 22:26

WJH - I think me and you were probably the two running in close proximity this morning, since I had a Netley finishing time of 20:51.

After a decent run out at Southampton on a testing course in 19:13, it took about 2 strides at Netley to quickly classify it as an 'enjoy the scenery run', a sloppy twisty run on paths full of potholes is not a good combination for someone of my clumsiness level.

You should have just randomly asked a few people whether they were from Barnsley, you'd have soon found us after creating a few puzzled faces along the way!

YD - Very nice session.

Alehouse - Agreed, without  at least 2 runs per week at 13+ it just wouldnt feel like a marathon campaign, or at least not one that would create much confidence.

Curly - Nice double parkrunning and even better coffee

Edited: 01/01/2013 at 22:27
01/01/2013 at 23:15

Completely agree on that marathon training/campaign perspective that at least 2 should be at 13+.  You can't be scared of 3 at 13+ if you want to do 2 at 13+ in succession on the day!  So saying that got my MLR of 15.5 in today - one of the MLRs.  The long runs are coming on fine.  The short ones aren't joining them yet.  And I'm not doing any of this mucking about with HMP/MP stuff yet.  Gotta get the aerobic adaptation before that happens.  MP might allow that, but HMP is pushing it.  So it was all slow time on feet.

Nice parkrunning up there, and good to hear of the get-togethers.  Still sorry to hear of all the injuries and issues!  Keep getting well.

02/01/2013 at 09:14

PRF – How is the fitness coming along? Are you ready for your Dewsbury smackdown with YD?

BR – Sorry to hear of your continuing running woes. Is this a reoccurrence of your last calf problem or did it just never really go away?

YD – Strong session there, those paces look good.

Curly – Nice improvisation for that session!

So back to work today  . Can’t say I was pleased getting up this morning! Still an excellent Christmas break. Running wise I managed 127 miles in 11 days off. How much easier it is training when you don’t have to work! Miles for 2012 came in at 2704. I’m really looking forward to racing in the upcoming weeks as I’m pretty confident of some good PBs if conditions play ball.

02/01/2013 at 09:28

Happy new year folks!  Sounds like I missed some quality parkrun group-hug action. Just 31 hungover miles on the bike for me yesterday, enough activity to make me fall asleep in front of Wizard of Oz, so I missed the blue flying monkeys which is a bit disappointing. NYE we did another 8 x 1k (1 min rest) session, splits all over the shop because of the wind but still managed sub-3:20/k average.  Incidentally, what with our training group meeting up 3 miles from where I live, even my longer interval sessions are clocking in at 13M+ so I'll regularly be going over 13M 2/3 times a week for the foreseeable future.

BR - What's the calf like on XC, can you give it full beans on softer surfaces?  Good luck with it all anyway.

MrV - So it's confirmed you've been baking a nice big cake ready for icing in 2013! 

OK stattos, fill yer boots!...


Edited: 02/01/2013 at 09:29
02/01/2013 at 09:46

So we are all agreed on MLRs then. It’s gonna take some building up from the 12 - 13 miles they are currently at, I would like to see regular 15 mile + MLRs before too long. Though they will stay where they are until after Brass Monkey Half, BM is also the reason I am touching on HMP at the moment. The plan gets more Marathon Specific after that, where as the plan is more of a blended Half/Full plan currently.

Fingers crossed the core and stretching works BR, you are due a break.

Cracking mileage Mr V, puts mine to shame! Agreed with Phil, get some icing on that cake now and fill yer boots!

A bit slack on the treadmill Phil  That is a lot of training, I think you said your aim for 2012 was to get as fit as a butchers dog. That lot shows you achieved that!

2012 in summary, a year of progress and inconsistency for me. Junior started nursery in Jan and since then it has been a lurgy festival in YD towers. Inconsistent training and missed races followed. However, overall I have progressed well and I don’t seem to have had that much lurgy since August, so onwards and upwards.

2018 miles (not enough)
15 races (not enough)
14 parkruns (9 raced)
13 pbs (5 at new distances – 800, mile, 6k, 5m, HM)

3 Highlights
- I ran 4 Half Maras (my first ever in Jan) and each was faster than the previous, though all were disappointing until the last one. It took me a while to get my head round them, but it felt good when I finally nailed one.
 - Ran a few track races this summer, great fun, I will do more in summer 2013.
 - Sub 60 10 miler in December.

2013 aims
Run more
Race more
Sleep more

02/01/2013 at 17:04

Nice summary YD.  And good observation - last year was my poorest yet for treadmill running!   And I forgot to comment on this the other day...

Y D wrote (see)

13.30miles for me this afternoon.  Session breakdown: 5.04m warm up – 45 minutes of alternating 5mins@MP with 5mins@HMP – 1.12m cool down.

45 min effort section came out at: 6:25/m, 6:11, 6:22, 6:08, 6:28, 6:06, 6:28, 6:06, 6:31.
Hard work that lot, started the MP bits too fast and got slower with the other way round for the HMP bits. Should help with Brass Monkey though.


It's a hard one to pace!  I've done a similar session a couple of times, which you can progress to from this session, but I'm still not sure whether it's technically a bit too difficult (i.e. if you can hit your target MP/HMP paces without killing yourself, do you need to revise your targets?...)  Ten miles, alternating miles @ MP and HMP.  What I generally found is that MP is easier to hit than HMP - so you did well to keep the HMP pace up - but then if you're doing it as a marathon training session, maybe it's no bad thing as long as the session has the right overall effect, i.e. a good solid block of running between MP and threshold, which makes MP feel a little easier.  And I know we're not at the level of "racing" marathons in the sense of surges to outwit the opposition (!) but maybe in some small way it does prepare the body for the inevitable variations in effort due to slopes, wind, accelerations out of bends, etc.

Did my last quality effort before the county XC on Saturday at lunchtime, 7.6M w/ 4 tempo @ 5:34, 8 laps round the local park.  My bruv flies back to Vancouver tomorrow, so beers and curry this evening to send him on his way.  I should be back on an even keel after that. 

Edited: 02/01/2013 at 17:05
02/01/2013 at 17:19

Physio report: she was pleased, and I am now allowed to officially "run". That is not quite run as we know will be a couple of weeks of 100/200 run, 100 walk then repeat. Then review where we are up to. No worries about the Achilles: its the rest of me, particularly the calves, that are the concern. A long term project then: 365 days to the next age group.

BR: I will try to email you re calf, but it will be tomorrow at the earliest.

Phil: a very pretty table!

Edited: 02/01/2013 at 17:20
02/01/2013 at 18:10

PRF - I am more sure than not then in that case it was you that overtook me on the 2nd lap (first incline up after the shoreline). I remember this quite well as it was the first point that I started to feel things a little and this was the first person to overtake me at any point. Were you wearing a 100 park run shirt by any chance? I was in black shorts and dark blue top. Anyhow, if this was you, I remember passing you again later on? And indeed, I should have asked round but looking a bit silly got the better of me!  

Treadmill session planned tonight...aiming to use a HR monitor for the first time. The aim will be to keep a steady and particularly easy pace throughout. Interesting to note the one treadmill session PB. Also interesting is that the highest average HR reading was for the park runs. I have bought a runners logbook and have also set up my own spreadsheets for this year and have taken a few ideas from this (a bit cheeky but it inspired me nonetheless!)

02/01/2013 at 19:27

Thanks all.  In `one of those things'  I did 20 slow miles today on flat trail with compression socks on.  Felt good actually.

Alehouse - you were mention on today's run.  So was Tom.  It was at a stage I could not get enough flexibility in my legs to get a stone out of my shoe.

WJH - I've always found that HR rises more on a treadmill session as heat increases.

PP - I'm seeing a lot of spreadsheets at the moment...

On the seventh day of Christmas, my true love sent to me, seven super spreadsheets, six spikes a' spiking, five free five kilometre time runs...., four dodgy calves, three warm-up miles, two Hampshire parkruns, and a Barnsley Runner moaning all day...

02/01/2013 at 21:25

Phil  - in answer to your question “if you can hit your target MP/HMP paces without killing yourself, do you need to revise your targets?” I would say for my session probably not, they are just about right, but I ended up running 7.14miles of effort, and was just about ready to slow down at the end, however, for your session of 10miles I would say, probably yes, it is most likely bellow both MP and HMP effort. Just a hunch mind, its all academic of course, you made the salient point that the session provides “a good solid block of running between MP and threshold, which makes MP feel a little easier.” Which of course is the point of the session.
4mile tempo is on my plan for Friday, great minds and all that , enjoy the curry and beer with your Bruv.

Good that the physio is pleased Alehouse

03/01/2013 at 08:23

Morning all!

YD to answer your much earlier question - I ran between the parkruns as the first half of the session - we know the area well so planned a 3 mile route - we arrived at the second parkrun at 9:57 so not bad at all!

Nice HMP/MP session - what I've done with that session once I nail it is switch down to 3 minutes each alternating - god that makes you pay attention when each section is so short!

8 hour shift at work yesterday and then a 12.5 mile MLR that was a proper slog. I always hate that run, I find it much worse than the LSR, but all year I have been doing a 10 anyway so its only another 20 minutes slog so far

Rest day today! Am going to be well over planned mileage this week so am going to cut down Fridays run I think. Will see as it may be a 5am one

Glad to hear you were able to get through the 20 BR, hope you can run on Sat!

Alehouse yippee thats great after your 1k runnette. The road back starts now eh!

Phil blimey some great training there. Good to hear you are enjoying the club sessions.

Wow Mr Viper that is some yearly mileage and some numbers crunched over the break. Hope the first day back wasnt too painful.

03/01/2013 at 10:21

Curly – Well toughed out. Sometimes on those kind of runs it’s the mental aspects that tire you more than the physical side if that makes sense!

Phil – No falling over this time!

Alehouse – Good news from the physio

A session of 3x 2miles at HMP last night. It was very windy indeed which made it heavy and slow going. Didn’t worry about splits as I knew it would be slow in the conditions. Had jelly legs on the warm down but pleased to get in banked. Think I’ll parkrun on Sat as a pre Brass Monkey tune up. Either an all out effort at Middlesbrough if conditions look promising (and I can force myself to get up early enough!) or else just a brisk effort at Newcastle.

03/01/2013 at 12:11

Happy New Year fellow MGers! . I'll never catch up properly but will try to read back a few pages.

2013 running hasn't started well as I'm a bit lurgied .... but hopefully things will kick off again next week.

I managed to bump into both Curly  and Simon E at Bushy parkrun on New Year's Day with was a nice surprise. I was staying with my bro and the plan for me and my son was to start the year on a positive note with a sub-20 ... unfortunately I wasn't able to run due to the lurgy and the boy managed an unofficial PB of 20:07 (barcodes were in my car ... but we came in my brothers!).

I really need a good running year ... plan is just to be just be consistently consistent and target 2013 miles for 2013. If I do that, then the times will come.

03/01/2013 at 13:25

Happy belated Birthday Alehouse, and good news on the Achilles front.

Glad you made it round 20 miles BR, and good luck in the XC.

YD that's some impressive end of year stats, paricularly since you weren't happy with the mileage.

Have fun with the HR monitor WJH. I've never got round to using mine. Maybe one day...

I would definitely reduce the mileage for a 5am start Curly!

Some impressive miles Mr V.  I find that the lack of routine makes it harder to run in the holidays. Being ill didn't help either.

Good tempo PP. Hope the curry was a good one.

Back at work today - aiming for 10 miles tonight and 10 more tomorrow morning, but best laid plans are just that at the moment!

03/01/2013 at 14:55

Fixture list dug up again, I've just entered the Finchley 20.  March is a long way off, but somebody's 20 mile time from 2011 is already giving me pacing strategy ideas! 

22nd - Mob Match Ranelagh Vs SLH (7.5m XC) - Curly
23rd - Reading XC - SG
26th - Aylesbury 5K - SG (potentially)
29th - Henty Relay (1.5m legs) - Curly
30th - Ribble Valley 10k - YD

January 2013
1st - Knacker Cracker 10k - YoungPup
5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
6th - Tadworth 10 - YoungPup
13th - Tadley XC - SG
20th - Brass Monkey Half Marathon - YD, MrV, Dr.Dan(?), Hilly, Wardi
20th - Bracknell XC - SG (potentially)

February 2013
3rd - Chichester Priory 10k – PhilPub, SG, YoungPup
3rd – Dewsbury 10k - MrV, BR, Hilly, YD
10th - Wokingham Half - SG
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
17th - Brighton Half Marathon - PhilPub
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan, MrV, BR, Hilly, Wardi

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) – PhilPub
10th – Northumberland Half Marathon - MrV
17th - Finchley 20 - PhilPub
24th - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan
24th - Eastleigh 10k - YoungPup, SG

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub, BR, Hilly, PRF
28th - Greater Manchester Marathon - YD

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

03/01/2013 at 15:02

January 2013

5th - Kent County Champs XC - PhilPub
5th - Surrey County XC - Curly
6th - Tadworth 10 - YoungPup
12th - Surrey League XC - Curly
13th - Tadley XC - SG
20th - Brass Monkey Half Marathon - YD, MrV, Dr.Dan(?), Hilly, Wardi
20th - Bracknell XC - SG (potentially)
26th Jan - Southern Champs XC - Curly

February 2013
3rd - Chichester Priory 10k – PhilPub, SG, YoungPup, Curly 
3rd – Dewsbury 10k - MrV, BR, Hilly, YD
9th - Surrey League XC - Curly
10th - Wokingham Half - SG
16th - Race Your Pace Half - YoungPup
17th - Brighton Half Marathon - PhilPub
24th - Snake Lane 10 - PRF, Dr.Dan, MrV, BR, Hilly, Wardi

March 2013
3rd - Surrey Spitfire 20 - YoungPup
9th - Dambuster Duathlon (GB Champs) – PhilPub
10th – Northumberland Half Marathon - MrV
17th - Finchley 20 - PhilPub
17th - Clutton Cup 10 XC - Curly
24th - Bradford 10K - Dr.Dan
24th - Eastleigh 10k - YoungPup, SG
30th - Baker Cup 3 - Curly

April 2013
14th - Brighton Marathon - Curly
21st - VLM - Ratzer, PhilPub, BR, Hilly, PRF
28th - Greater Manchester Marathon - YD

May 2013
6th - Milton Keynes Marathon - YoungPup
12th - Leeds Half Marathon - Dr.Dan

Previously bookmarked threads are now visible in "Followed Threads". You can also manage notifications on these threads from the "Forum Settings" section of your profile settings page to prevent being sent an email when a reply is made.
Forum Jump  

RW competitions

RW Forums