The Middle Ground

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06/01/2013 at 16:11
Stevie G . wrote (see)
Josh Blatchford wrote (see)

 1 min plank, 2 min plank,

you just lost track here didn't you

Nope.  Kind of breaks the flow of the work out but the 2 min plank is the hardest bit of the session.

Btw, have you tried the Wave Rider 16s yet?

06/01/2013 at 17:48
Evening all

I thought you might enjoy having a laugh at my splits for the Tadworth Ten, which I ran today. My plan was to run it at a decent pace, not flat out, and I was hoping it would come out at around MP effort.

I ran to the race, so a nice gentle 2.5m w/u, followed by:

Mile 1 - 7:53 avg HR 154
Mile 2 - 7:45 avg HR 171 (big hill)
Mile 3 - 7:08 avg HR 169 (flat)
Mile 4 - 6:48 avg HR 166 (downhill)
Mile 5 - 7:39 avg HR 169 (uphill)
Mile 6 - 7:19 avg HR 164
Mile 7 - 8:22 avg HR 167 (big hill)
Mile 8 - 7:44 avg HR 163 (flat)
Mile 9 - 7:18 avg HR 157 (downhill)
Mile 10 - 7:40 avg HR 167

During the race it felt like a decent workout, and I had turned off the lap vibrate so wasn't looking at the splits. I'm surprised by the amount of variation in pace, but am happy overall with a time of 1:16:17, average pace was 7:33/mile with average HR of 165bpm, and a max of 174bpm.
06/01/2013 at 19:19

Josh, i'm way too tight to ever have the latest version of the WR. £100 or so?! Sounds ridiciulous however nice the new colours are.

I'm more likely to get the old version when I can get a couple of pairs combined for about £100-110.

Having said that Mizuno sponsor the next half I'm doing, so if I get sucked into some pb euphoria, the discounted on day only price might be too much to bear!

06/01/2013 at 20:05
prf - briefy as I'm on my phone.

Figured you'd be up for it while I don't think I'd be up for them all but you'd be welcome to stay beforehand and I'd just come along for the ride (and to drive to save your calves!).

Brooks have just released their new minimalist range - the Pureflow is looking especially good. Might be worth a look. There's two others but I can't remember their names!
06/01/2013 at 22:11

Cheers everyone and points taken on the pacing...that said, the Southampton Park Run yesterday incorporated two laps incorporating a long upward incline (the B course rather than the normal A course last week which normally has that incline in just the once which I didn't realise until today) so point noted there Hilly! I'd much rather a shorter but steeper hill than a long upward incline...they seem to really take it out of me


Ran a very enjoyable 3 and a half miles or so with my partner today at 12 m/m pace (recovery run and very gentle for me what with a roller hockey match this afternoon) was great to see her carry on without stopping once and she has made great progress over the last few months in particular...and she PB'd for 5k on Saturday too at Southampton so really pleased for her. 


Well done on the X/C Curly...and BR and Hilly - shame it wasn't more enjoyable though but at least as you say it's worthwhile training! 


Interesting pacing there YP! Sounds challenging to get that nailed with the hills and downward sections you have noted! Were you happy with the targeted MP time and less so with the splits? Or happy with both? 


Sounds like a very good 4x40m session there Duck! 

Edited: 06/01/2013 at 22:16
06/01/2013 at 22:38
Barnsley Runner wrote (see)

YD - surprised to see no-one from your club there seeing as it was just along the road? 

BR – my club never puts in for that kind of stuff, I think we did provide some marshals for the event. You may remember me asking how to go about getting involved in these type of races on here a few month back? I put it to some club people, but no-one seemed all that bothered. I will try and get some interest going in 2013, even if I do put some noses out of joint at the club. I am starting to get a little frustrated with the club and how far behind it seems in comparison to some of the other clubs I am aware of. I am trying to do something about it, but it’s not easy.

The good news is I can run the Thirsk 10 this year as long as I provide a marshal in my place, Mrs YD has agreed to do that for me.  Though I am going to get involved in setting the race up, I might try and do something about those mile markers while I am at it!

07/01/2013 at 07:53

Nice race YP - looks like we are aiming for a very similar MP too

Good news about Thirsk YD hopefully you'll fly there, it is such a great race.

19 yesterday (ran out of light on an unlit canal path to do that final mile ), took me to 60 for last week. Got an ease back of sorts this week with a shortened long run to give me circa 50 miles. Surrey league XC on Sat which is one of those silly flat ones, need to clean my shoes once they are dried off fully from Sat too.

Duck sounds like a fun one, Magpie has done the longest parkrun and really enjoyed it.

How is the coaching going?

07/01/2013 at 09:49

Sounds like a tough 10 miler YP, and a good workout.

Nice longrunning Curly. You mean you didn't fancy the canal in the dark? I ran back from club once along the canal in the dark. It was slow going!

7 gentle miles this morning. Was slow going especially to start with.

07/01/2013 at 10:10

YP - proper up and down one, sounds like fun.  Good going.

Curly - well done on the XC, seems like you're getting the hang of them!  See you on Saturday.

YD - I try not to take for granted the fact that my local club happens to have keen interest in XC league/champs and road relays going back yonks.  Good luck with that.  Are you on the committee or could you get involved??

Kent county XC on Saturday. A fairly tame course, soft underfoot but only mild slopes and not much mud.  Depending on whose Garmin you believe I got round 7.5 miles @ 5:45 - 5:54/m, pretty quick for XC anyway. A couple of club mates I like to have a scrap with got a little ahead of me and although I just couldn't quite get them back, the chase helped me work through the field a bit, from around 30th to 21st at the finish (my only other county finish a few years ago was 35th) and I squeezed into the 6-to-score which came 2nd behind Tonbridge. I got an invite to be considered for the Inter-counties, but it's on the same day as the duathlon.  Ho hum! A county vest would be nice one day.

Followed this off with another unfuelled 20 miles yesterday.  Best beats per mile for a 20 to date (7:23/m, HR 64% max) and although I didn't take splits, there was no obvious sign of any cardiac drift, so endurance seems to be top notch right now.

07/01/2013 at 10:24

Right, I have chance for a proper readback (was on my phone all of yesterday when I posted).

cb, good running yesterday, promising you can run 6:45s on the flat sections (would that be 10k pb pace?). Do you have idea for how you plan to work on your speed?

Josh, you do make a good point  How does 170bpm relate to MHR/WHR?

BR, Fridays in Scotland are where we dig out the deep-fat fryers and the mars bars  

YP, doesn't sound like a quick course! 

YD, good news on Thirsk (and kudos to Mrs YD for agreeing to marshal!). 

Curly, nice long run, bit of a hairy final mile?

The coaching is going well, she ran 25'27 Saturday - the day after the 3k race (just 10s slower than her almost flat-out time 2 weeks ago) - so another good step in the right direction and I'm happy with her ability to recover from sessions. 

We're going to go for a 24'xx next week (wind permitting of course!), I'm just having an easy run the day before the duathlon so I'll be pacing. If the conditions are good I think it will be quite close. Still a bit to go before she challenges her pb, but she's running the Paris mara in April, after which I'm hoping to get her onto a specific block of 5k training to break 24. 

All looking good there Phil! Shame you can't pull on the county vest though. 

07/01/2013 at 19:31

Duck - I am not sure - just following Ben's (coach's) plan!  Should probably ask why 170bpm, as that is kind of no-man's land intensity. 

Here's a question for debate for everyone:  It is often said that runners should do one speed session per week all year round to stay in touch with faster-paced running, even when in early base phase.  But what should that speed session be: tempo, fartlek, reps, intervals, cruise intervals or even just a set of strides?

07/01/2013 at 19:52

OOoo Phil nice work! The course sounds a bit piss poor though.

Inter counties is something I would like to work towards for next xc season, being about 3.5mins off my clubmate (of the sub 70 min half) in the last race. She is selected every year and I think it would be great for the club if we could get two runners in, obviously a lot of work to do to make it happen. Need to get into consideration first, which is probably about 2 mins away!

07/01/2013 at 19:55

Duck Yes running in the dark on a unlit canal with no lights isnt something I would do again! The grand union is quite bumpy and a narrow towpath so risk of falling in or over is quite high.

Glad to hear it is going well with coaching.

Josh early base only strides imo.

Next step is fartlek, then a structured tempo (long reps, lowish pace, steady recoveries), then building towards more intense work. 

07/01/2013 at 19:55

Phil - great XC race and a good result. And following up with a 20 miler. (Goes away dreaming of running a race on Sunday then not struggling on a mere 7m on Monday!)

Duck - I'm looking at the sessions that gave me so much improvement last May/June. 1 per week of 16 x 200m reps (200m rest), 5 x 2:30 reps (2:30 rest), 4 x 5:00 reps (3:00 rest). Then another quality session per week. At the moment that's looking to bring MP up to 10 miles, but then building towards 5 x 1mile at 10k pace (1min rest). How fast it'll get me by my target 10ks in March I don't know, but it'll be fun to see!

07/01/2013 at 20:29
Josh Blatchford wrote (see)

Here's a question for debate for everyone:  It is often said that runners should do one speed session per week all year round to stay in touch with faster-paced running, even when in early base phase.  But what should that speed session be: tempo, fartlek, reps, intervals, cruise intervals or even just a set of strides?

You're going to get a variety of answers here! A lot depends on what the end goal is in my opinion.

'Speed' will also depend on what your definition of speed is - again, given context. Speed for a marathoner is probably going to be the ability to run a good 10k; speed for a 5k runner will be how well you can blast a mile; speed for me is raw 150m/200m speed. I'm not sure I would call a tempo a speed session as - to me - that falls more under aerobic development (and speed endurance for the longer distances).

I would say, depending on distance, the following would be appropriate for 'speed' in base:

HM/Marathon - Cruise intervals/short track sessions @ 10kp, 5k/10kp fartlek, strides

10k - 5k/3kp fartlek, strides

5k - 3k/1500 fartlek, 1500/800p reps/aerobic power, strides

MD - 1500/800 aerobic power/reps, strides, max speed sessions 

Sorry, rambling a bit! 

cb - looks good!

Curly, and to think they do the GUCR ultra along there  

Plyos earlier on today, a good session of just over 150 'foot contacts' bagged (that's how you measure plyometric volume apparently). 

08/01/2013 at 08:53

PP, nice xc, and I think you should check out the colour of the county vest as it might well make a difference to your decision!

Ran x/c for the club on Sun.  YD, like PP I have a club that loves its xcs and road relays.  In fact loves every non-regular race there is, but never turns out on track or regular road (except HMs and Fulls).  It's been a great season of x/c for me and I've loved it!  [Unfortunately on Sunday one of the other clubs turned out its proper A team and got their team scorers in before we even had one on the board!  Still came second team!]  Unfortunately I had a tumble in a stream crossing that had become a mud-spa by that fourth lap.  Face first, and approaching the final sprint too...

Which may have meant my season has come to a close.  Yesterday spent nursing my heel so the Achilles has been maltreated somehow.  Feeling it all the time today so track training tonight may turn into jogging as I see what it can cope with.

Nice long, Curly.  Josh, I'd give you one of those varieties of answers, but I'd start by asking why you think those sessions should not be a variety of paces?

08/01/2013 at 11:15

Ratzer - ouch!  Damn these proper XC courses!  Look after yourself.  Good point about the county vest - IIRC it's a lighter shade of blue than our club vests, with the same horsey on.  Very fetching, and if anything a better match with my new spikes.  But then for the duathlon you've got the gimp outfit!...

I'll put this here as well, my newly cobbled-together VLM training plan. Thought it would be a good idea to do some forward planning of specific LRs and MP sessions, just because the race schedule itself is pretty busy.  I think it works, although everything is always open to modification.  This is assuming 4/5 gym visits per week on top (subject to race tapers, etc.)

 I've even given my brother a list of my "more flexible Thursdays" over the coming few weeks, w.r.t. organising boys' curry night out.  How's that for commitment!

Edited: 08/01/2013 at 11:17
08/01/2013 at 12:11

Razter –Hopefully nothing serious. The perils of XC eh..

Phil – Looks like a solid training plan there. Straightforward and no nonsense.

Curly – Sounds a tough target to keep you motivated!

 A reasonable session for me last night. 4 miles easy on own then 3 steady, progressing to 3 at HMP with the club. Felt hard work and the pace was a little off but seemed a good work out. My knee does seem a little sore at the moment which is a bit worrying. I’d hate to get injured now with all the hard training done and all my races coming up! So I’ll take a rest day today and I’m booked in for the physio next Tuesday. Fingers crossed it doesn’t develop into anything much.

Very interesting news regarding a new marathon in York (not to be confused with the New York marathon!) which is going to happen on the 20th October. Very flat route so should be a fast one. I’m definitely going to enter so that’s helped me shape my season. I’m in HM, 10 mile shape now and have a few races lines up over the next couple of months. At that point I’ll move to 5k/10k training for spring early summer. Then I can focus on marathon training after that. Gives the season a nice shape I think. And finally gets me signed up for my 1st marathon!

08/01/2013 at 12:39
Is it honestly flat? I could be tempted back to the marathon for a flat course. I don't like hills

I'm definitely going to do an autumn marathon - my first since Oct 2010! A local-ish one would be a huge bonus.

No, I can not be tempted by the Town Moor Marathon, ha.

My asthma is acting up again, everything is feeling disproportionately difficult. At least I'm not injured like the last two Winter's (touch wood), but damn, I've made no progress what so ever in over 15 months. This come back is not... coming back!
08/01/2013 at 12:53

Kelly - No hills in the area so yes! The website says "A consistently flat and extremely fast course - flatter than London, Berlin, Paris, Chicago and New York". Could be expsoed though if its windy I reckon. Sorry to hear about your asthma. Must be so frustrating for you... Did you ever hear back from the guy doing the study we volunteered for?

I've signed up already to stop me from dithering for months on end as to whether I should do it or not!

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