The Middle Ground

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19/01/2013 at 21:06

Won't be watching CB do his half tomorrow: that's off, also:

19/01/2013 at 21:11

That looks runable to me... it is hard to tell from pics though, but still doesnt look too bad! Obviously not a pb course, but still runable. Clearly, I've been spending too much time around you Northern nutters

19/01/2013 at 21:20

Sheet ice in places, apparently, Curly!  And there's a couple of steep down hills that are tricky at the best of times. I wouldn't go ahead if I were organising it! Fine for a training run, but not for a big race. If it had gone ahead and there had been a problem I think it would jeopardise the future of the race, and, indeed, other races: the police don't seem to keen on runners on the roads these days.

19/01/2013 at 21:27

I do find the number of cancellations quite shocking really... I know some people are bambi on ice (PRF is very good at falling over ), but it is sad to cancel races as the money is lost and no-one gets anything on either side. I do think race organisers are going to have to start getting weather related insurance that will pay out to refund entry fees in the next few years or stop holding races over the winter - one of the reasons I enter so few is I cant afford to lose entry fees when they are so expensive now!

Hey they could get it for mismeasurements or course issues too

19/01/2013 at 22:09

Actually I have never been a fan of road races in the winter: these, with one or two exceptions, seem to be a new phenomenon. The winter is for cross country! (And parkruns of course!)

20/01/2013 at 00:11

Cracking PBs, Duck

20/01/2013 at 08:14

Duck - so you go and run a stonking 400 and bag the win, then go and run a 1500 PB, blimey! Well done!

Phil – nice work on the long run, shelling peas yet?

Top mileage Curly! Feeling great art the end is another way of saying shelling peas, right?

Interesting interview Alehouse, as you say, there seems to be more to come….

Shame about Helsby CB

Wardi, Kelly, prf – I had hoped for a re-schedule, to be honest I just thought it was the done thing. Thirsk 10 two years ago, Dewsbury 10k last year for example. Suppose it depends on the costs and logistics and what not. Don’t suppose the use of York Racecourse comes cheap. I imagine they will do something for the runners that missed out (and I don’t mean giving us a poxy t-shirt). Maybe priority entry next year or something.

Josh Blatchford wrote (see)

Dan - why the hell are you wearing shorts??? 

Lol, that's what I thought, but for different reasons to you Josh

PhilPub wrote (see)
Is everyone out building snowmen?

Yes, and a real good one it was too! He took YD junior off to a party with Father Christmas in the Arctic Circle last night.

Meeting some clubmates for a long run later, aiming for 20+ miles, should be fun in the hills. I am not expecting it to be shelling peas.

20/01/2013 at 10:33

7 miles for me this morning as the snow was falling, bit lucky that it was early so we could run some of it on the road as the pavements are very bad now. Phew to doing the long run yesterday Off out on the bike shortly though to go to work, luckily roads are still mostly clear

Hope your run goes well YD

Alehouse some of our XC has been cancelled this week (not one I was down to do anyway as it happens)!

20/01/2013 at 11:01




Brass Monkey

13.2 hilly miles this morning at sub 70 maxHR  bring up 55 miles for the week ... wasted taper but at leats no recovery required next week and I can crack on next week. Snake Lane here we come!

20/01/2013 at 12:30
Dan - Snake Lane? Is that where you buy your shorts?

YD - I reckon I'm at pea-shelling stage for flat 20 milers on tarmac but 22 miles mainly on snow felt like a bit of a slog. That's all good though: looking at the beats per mile stats it's probably equivalent to 23 @ closer to 7m/m, which is as high as I want to go for distance anyway. Enjoy your long one.

Technical problem with the turbo trainer this morning, so I'm settling for 8 mile round-trip in the snow to my dad's as acceptable post-LR day light x-training.
20/01/2013 at 13:03

Dr. Dan - was this an A race?  And how much did you taper?

Duck - awesome stuff!  Really sounds like a good win.  What sort of tactics can you do if you get boxed-in?

Curly - I have no idea how you can have the patience to run 20 miles at 9:25 pace.  What is the reason for the 'conservative' pace?  I have read that it is bad for your form to run any slower than 9:00, although I don't think that is necessarily true.

12 miler takes me up to 40mpw. 

20/01/2013 at 13:23

discipline comes in all shapes and forms Josh.

I just did a 3miler at 9min miling pace!  It was up steep woods in heavy snow mind

Not looking forward to this week's training I must long as it's all cleared by the Chichester 10k 2 weeks today tho!

20/01/2013 at 14:36

Josh, why would 9:25 pace be too slow for someone who is aiming for a sub 3.30 marathon?  I often train at 1.5-2 minutes per mile slower than my target marathon pace and can't say it's done any harm to my form!

20 scenic snow miles today.  Tough in places and so deep - oops we were down to 10m/m at times.  Slow but enjoyable, but worth 22 miles at least

Edited: 20/01/2013 at 14:37
20/01/2013 at 14:44

Well done getting in some extra run and bike miles Curly

A NYSD XC race was cancelled today as well

Good work on getting the miles in Dr Dan, do you fancy a PB attempt at Snake Lane? Not sure what shape you are in at the moment.

Lol at the Snake Lane joke Phil. Shelling peas isn’t happening for me yet, it will come, one day…..

Josh – what Stevie says. Good that you are getting some sensible miles in now Josh.

Nice pace Stevie

Good work on the 20(worth 22) miler Hilly

20miles in the hills this morning  was hard work. Not an easy route to be fair and running in the snow takes a bit more out of you (in my experience), so all good toughening up miles in the end.

A lovely route though, I will use it again. At one point a random dog came bounding out after us and just followed us. We couldn’t get it to go back home, so in the end the dog did 9 miles and got a ride home in the back of my mates car  The owner was chuffed, as we saved him the bother of having to walk the dog in the snow!

Me trying to control the dog for a picture!


20/01/2013 at 15:38

YD, have to  at the idea of you out for a 20, having some random dog following you for 9miles, and then driving it home!


It was bad enough the time 2 MASSIVE dogs, followed me down the woods, invited themselves into my garden, did a couple of laps smashing loads of things over, and then nicked off!

20/01/2013 at 17:24

Josh my easy pace goes down to 9:15 anyway and as Hilly says you have to remember paces are relative to aims I would add to that they should be relative to conditions and terrain too, which is why in weather like we have at the moment, pace is purely an output. PRF feels much the same.

Well done on 40 week!

YD great running and dog shepparding! I've had them follow me before but never had to return one!

Nice to see you enjoy the worth 22 Hilly

Stevie am sure it will clear up before then...

Good light xtraining Phil. The roads aren't too bad around here, but the wind/snow combo was a bit of killer for visibility. Have you had much today? We've had another 5cms or more.

Nice that 55 miles is a taper week though eh Dr. Dan!


20/01/2013 at 17:55
Hi all,

I think I might be about to allow myself to get off the injury bench, as I managed to do 5.5 pain and niggle free miles today

I have had the last 10 days off completely due to a calf strain, and am trying to decide whether to follow what it says in P&D about returning after an injury.

I should be just starting week 14 of the P&D 55-70 programme, but given that weeks 15, and 16 were non-existent, I am tempted to have a week of just running to feel before I get back into proper training.

What experience have others had of coming back from a short term injury, and how quickly did you get back to where you would have been....?
20/01/2013 at 18:37

Duck, excellent 400 and nice to see you get the 1500 time you're capable of too.

YP, your idea of just going out and running for a week is good. Remember that schedules are only guidelines anyway.

I fell over at parkrun yesterday thanks to some frozen mud covered in thick snow. The last time I fell over was last year when it snowed.

Nice long runs in the snow, YD and Hilly. I started base phase II myself with a cruise interval session. It was hard work in the snow and great fun, but a bit annoying being asked by three separate people if I was cold.

20/01/2013 at 23:40

Right. Readback. Could be long as I haven't posted since Tuesday  

Sorry to hear BM was called off for eveyone running it. Quite a few of you are in very good shape so hopefully either a rescheduled day or another race will bear fruition.

Phil your training is great! Storming LR this weekend and some good hills midweek too.

Promising 10k session there Curly, is that near pb pace? Sub-42/sub-20 soon? 

Dan, good to see mileage creeping back up now, doubles are great (but tiring!).

Josh, again good to see more progress on the mileage front. As Curly says it is all relevant, I don't think it's fair to say that someone who runs 30'00 for 5k has bad form simple because their pace is slower than an artificial number. I think going by relative pace/intensity is fair enough to a certain extent, but it's like saying 6:00/m pace is VO2 max for everyone which is in no way true.

Were you cold Simon?


20/01/2013 at 23:55

Right, my turn!

Saturday was a helluvabusy day. Up at 5:30am then straight to Glasgow in time for parkrun. I wasn't running but my coachee was, a freezing cold but otherwise enjoyable time checking out how a really well-run parkrun operates! I know prf & Curly have run it and I'm sure they'll agree it's a very smooth operation. 

Then over to the new Emirates Stadium for the National Open. I was in for the 400 & 1500 and was hoping for decent times in both of them. Plan for the 400 was to run my own race until the break, then push from about 220m (i.e. the first turn). 

Race is here, I'm in lane 4 at the start.

The gun went and I got a pretty good start, driving well and up and into my running by the back straight. A pretty quick start, but I resisted the temptation to go with it and instead focused on just floating through the first lap. At the break I was 4th and slipped in behind third place just before the turn, ready to begin the push as I was still feeling strong.

The quick start meant that the top 3 began to slow already and I was now boxed in, with second now right in front and third blocking me from moving out. At the start of the back straight I had to slow up, move out to straddle lanes 2 and 3 and then reaccelerate! Hardly tactics that give you a good 400 time, but as we came to the final straight I had a ton more momentum than the top 2 and I charged past into second. I was feeling immensely strong now and used it to fly past the leader to win in 55.75

My first thoughts as soon as I crossed the finish line were as follows

  1. "Mid-55, job done."
  2. "Jesus, I won!"
  3. "How do I feel so good?"

I felt unbelievably good. When I ran my pb last year I had to virtually lie down for a minute after as I was so spent. This time out I felt great, winded for sure but I had so much strength in the final 100, without being boxed in I think I could have gone faster. And it was such a fun race - by far the funnest 400 I have done yet and probably one of my most enjoyable races ever.    

Edited: 21/01/2013 at 00:07
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