The Middle Ground

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26/01/2013 at 12:07

Nice run Duck  I see a great 2013 ahead on the track ...oh, and  I hope Simon has speeded up since being pipped by an untrained 14 year old at Bushy earlier in the month.

26/01/2013 at 13:18

Might have been pipped, Dan, but at least I remembered my barcode

Curly, that's an interesting multi-pace session there. Sticking in some faster stuff towards the end of a hardish run is a good approach I think.

Duck, did pretty well today I thought. Once I blew up and he was ahead of me I could tell he was having trouble because of the surface. Apart from that looking very strong and great running form.

I knew I wasn't back to fitness, and haven't done much faster than MP in training,  but still 18:45 was a bit disheartening for what was pretty much a proper effort. Interestingly my average HR was 186, whereas previous 5ks have seen it at around 190. I think that suggests work on lactate threshold is needed, which is what I'm doing anyway, so that's nice.

26/01/2013 at 13:47

YP - Good to hear your recovery is complete.

Alehosue - Great to see you running again!

Duck - Strong effort. Sounds like sub 18 is doable in favourable conditions.

Curly - Steady improvement from you. Next weekends race will be interesting.

Simon - Doesn't sound too bad in the conditions. I expect once you've worked on the lactate threshold you'll pick up pretty quickly.

Enforced rest day for me yesterday as leg was too sore to run. An easy 7.5 today but it hurt during the last mile. Plan at the moment is just to nurse my way through to next weekend and hope I'm ok to race.

26/01/2013 at 16:25
Duck - glad to hear Curly's looking after you with some sensible distance training runs. Good multi-surface parkrunning, guys.

Fingers crossed MrV.

Josh - It was a continuous 6.7 mile tempo run, so no rest. I just increased the pace at the start of the second lap. Whilst I'm officially marathon training, Thursday is still my tempo night when I like to cover everything from threshold to MP, and this'll hopefully help me put in some decent 10k / HM / XC results in the build-up. Plus, as I'm sure Curly could tell you after yesterday's session, multi-paced work-outs just keep things interesting.

42 miles on the bike today, fairly easy pace, saving myself for a big LR incorporating MP tomorrow. Eek!
26/01/2013 at 16:28
Simon Edward wrote (see)
Might have been pipped, Dan, but at least I remembered my barcode

... and you probably didn't throw away half your clothes on the course either.

18:45 is pretty solid in these conditions, especially given the time of the season etc.

MrV ... a rest day sounds sensible to me. I'm having one myself!

27/01/2013 at 11:06

21 miles @ 9:02 for me this morning takes me to 66 for the week. Tasty. Feeling pretty good on it too.

Waved goodbye to Duck at some ungodly hour this morning - hope your mile goes well

Who else has been running today?

27/01/2013 at 11:22
Sounds very promising Curly. Anything over 20 always used to be a chore for me so looking good for this time of year.

I had my longest ever training run, mainly because someone else was in charge of the turning point along the Thames path, so I went along with it and we still stuck with our MP plan at the end. 24 miles in 2:45, including 7M @ 5:58/m in windy conditions. All done on a coffee and a banana, so the Marmite and scrambled eggs on toast when I got back didn't touch the sides.
27/01/2013 at 16:07
5.10 today, nothing whatsoever to give - third lap was 81 for gods sake. Not reading much into it after the last few days.
27/01/2013 at 16:39
Afternoon all,

Simon & Duck - nice park-running at Bushy. You made a good choice to avoid Nonsuch as the course was nigh on un-runnable due to ice on the all the paths, and flooding on all the grass/muddy bits...

Duck - after your last two days' training, it's no surprise that your legs didn't have anything left to give today.

Mr V - hope you're sore leg is just a temporary niggle.

Curly - if you're aiming for between 41-42 mins at Chichester it will be interesting to see where I am relative to you. Since the beginning of January I've done no running at faster than 07:30/mile, so I could well be blowing chunks after 6 miles @ 10k pace.

Phil - very impressive distances and pace from you as always.

I did 10.5 miles today in 86 mins, and my calf felt absolutely fine throughout, so I'm declaring myself off the injury bench. Will increase the mileage a little bit this week, with maybe a couple of 1mile reps at 10k pace on Tuesday or Wednesday just to remind myself what that feels like.
27/01/2013 at 18:35

Nice long running Curly and good mileage. You must be feeling strong now.

Phil, that's a mental training run. Have you stopped eating yet?

Duck, agree you shouldn't read much into it. Your 1500 the other day shows what you're actually capable of. I bet you want to nail that mile though. I think it can be quite a tough one - they're not as common and that extra 109 metres can worry you. I ended last season about 8-9 seconds off what I think I could have managed

YP, are you free on the 6th Feb? I'm launching my running group then. I'd be careful with that calf. Maybe some strides would be better before trying 1 mile reps.

I was shattered today actually. I managed a slow 10 miles but it felt more like 15. Day off tomorrow.

27/01/2013 at 19:01
Simon - I am free on the 6th, but depends a bit on timing, and whether I can get back from London in time. What are you planning?

I know you're right about being careful with my calf, but interestingly it feels better running at speed rather than jogging.....
27/01/2013 at 19:08

Curly - nice consistency

Duck - how suitable do you find your shorter sprint training for the mile?  Would a long distance runner stuggle to compete in the mile if the competition is strong?

Phil - I have been doing my early morning weekday runs before eating breakfast, but I couldn't imagine doing so much running without eating before hand.  Are you trying to encourage efficient fat-burning?

Very tough muddy 12 miler @ 8:10 pace today and 40 miles for the week.  Like Simon I am knackered.  The mud just made my run a lot harder than what it should of been and my shoes felt heavy after just 2 miles.  I am so happy it has got a bit warmer now - running is just infintely better when it isn't sub-zero.

27/01/2013 at 20:03

Curly reckoned conditions were worth ~30 seconds yesterday, so not a bad time at all Actually ended up winning my age category  not bad going at all! 

Here's me and Simon at the start (I'm in the white top with red horizontal stripe, Simon is to my left in the red top).

Great you got your 21 done Curly 

Josh - not much actually. It's all different energy systems (ATP-CP for sprinting and lactic glycolytic/aerobic for MD) so while it might help with a quick first 400 it won't help much over a mile. Did you see Dai Greene yesterday in the 600? Him tying up in the final lap is what I'm like most of the time over about 800m.

So had my mile today - 5'11 the outcome. Decent first lap in 73 but after that the last few days caught up and I ended up running 78, 81, 78. Legs felt really tired and hamstrings were very tight. Had a mini-stop right after  but in retrospective not a bad result. I did run a 4'58 1500 equivalent last weekend and I haven't suddenly lost all that fitness. Just not the day 

Did a 100m after - handtimed but not by me. 12.7 the result, about 10 mins after the mile so pretty happy. 

Edited: 27/01/2013 at 20:08
27/01/2013 at 21:48
Hi guys, some great training going on as usual. Good to see Alehouse running again...being a late entrant to the thread I am now learning on how talented you are on working out your 3k time!

Great to see others going so well with the training too...PP with the tempos and 24 miler which sounds insane. Same with YD on the MP runs going extremely well.

Also some good long running and mileage from Curly and Mr Viper going on.

Excellent work with the PB's recently Duck...I'm envious at the fast twich fibres I can only dream of having!

Good to hear the injury may have cleared up YP.

So there have been two races for me over the last two weeks. Neither have been target races but both were a little disappointing at best. However, my training has been affected through a bad cold with the most irritating cough which has been going round my work having struggled with this for over a week. I staggered in with 41:27 (chip time) at the Stubbington 10k last week. The roads were clear but with temperatures at minus 1 and with it snowing it was never going to be ideal running conditions. After 3k which incorporated the longest hill of the flat/undulating course, I kind of knew it would be a struggle. My initial target for this one was sub 41 but with the cold conditions and weather I wasn't too despondent, more a little disappointed.

Also raced the Lliswerry 8 today in Newport and decided to treat it as a tune up race for the coming few months and with Chichester in mind for next Sunday. Ended up with 55:07 on the chip time which did leave me feeling despondent and more to the point wondering why I am trying to kid myself with faster times and even wondering why I am posting on here when my standard is clearly not of the calibre of pretty much everyone on this thread (my WAVA times would reflect so). That said, I have not felt great and remember having a bad half at my club helpers half last November when feeling the effects of a virus. I am sure it will come together at one point...I'll just have to keep my head down and get on with it and get as much mileage as I can in the same way many of you manage (but not junk mileage at that). Less talk and more action as they say I guess. My time at Lliswerry 2 years ago was roughly 2 and a half minutes faster which is another reason as to why I've been left feeling dispondant after today. My slowest mile in the Cardiff half last year was also faster than each of my last 5 today which says a lot. The wind was also a big factor for about 3 to 6 miles today but I am not looking at this as an excuse. Another reason for being down on today was that my brother ran this after three weeks of training and was still two minutes faster. Despite this, it's a race I very much enjoy doing with the good organisation and friendly vibe.

Anyhow, it's Chichester for me next weekend now. Think it may be best to revise any time target from sub 40 to sub 41. If anyone sees me next Sunday feel free to say hi. I think only a few from my Gosport club are running in this. In the meantime it's time to keep calm and go for a run...
27/01/2013 at 22:09

Big miles day it seems…….

Duck – some good running then, nice to get a strong run in at Bushy. Not surprised you struggled today, traveling can zap you in a big way, and at least you got a quick 100 in.
Not long ago I ran a parkrun full beans after a day in the car driving home from London. I ran a strong time but felt I was missing a gear.  A few weeks later I ran a 5 mile race at exactly the same pace, both parkrun and 5 mile race were on good courses, so no BS factor other than traveling the day before the parkrun.

Although not a great run Simon, you got some decent training feedback, so a good day.

Good to see you off the bench YP, build steady now.

Phil, monster run!!!

Great session on Friday, followed by a 21 miler, nice one Curly

Good to see Josh back to running.

Fingers crossed you are ok to give it full beans next Sunday Mr V

Chin up WJH, a cold a cough and snow will slow you down in a big way. When you are having a poor time like you are, I find it just best to try and relax and aim for consistent consistency. Don’t smack yourself trying to find the fitness, just keep it going and it will come back once the bugs leave.

I did 21.76m on nothing more than a glass of water this morning, felt pretty good on it as well. A couple of good climbs en-route, ran up Sheriff Hill and up Bensham Road, both in Gateshead, Kelly and Mr V might recognise them.
Then tonight I ran 4.6miles to bring up 26.36miles for the day.

28/01/2013 at 08:49

LOL whats with the extra double YD? Good running anyway.

WJH what he said up there. Chin up, do some running and stop pushing for fitness that will come but isnt quite there yet. Oh and you are faster than me and YP and CB so definitely not out of place on the thread. Its about attitude not times, we all want to be better and are happy to put some work in to get there

Phil nice! I get the sense we are feeling very similar at the moment, strong and relaxed. Hope that continues for you!

Duck you were tired on Saturday, plus all the running, plus flying. I think that time is pretty decent considering it was no doubt a solo time trial - its very hard to go to the hurt locker when you are tired and you dont have a race to do it for!

YP ah this could be smackdown time Not really as your overall speed is higher than mine, but I hope to keep you in sight for a few miles and try not to be sick on me as I come through the finish..

A bit tired today (worked after run then met a friend in London for dinner. Phil we went here: think you would like!)

A lowish mileage week planned before Sunday's race so hopefully will have time to get race sharp as that is my biggest gap at the moment (not unsurprisingly).

 Nice long running from Josh too.

Still awaiting a report of the craic from some of the Northern lot!

28/01/2013 at 09:50

A lot of read back - and this time I'll make the effort to comment! (sorry if I miss you out - it's not intentional!)

Duck - a mental few days. 12 miles long run? On other threads that means you're a marathonner. Good parkrun given the condidtions.

YP - Good news on the calf.

Alehouse - great news on the 3k

Curly - some great sessions - another complicated pacey session for me to try to wrap my head around! And 21 miles for a long run as well. Your pbs are going to take a severe hammering this year.

Simon - at least the parkrun confirmed what you already knew and are working on!

Mr V  - Hope the leg is better soon.

Great long run Phil and double YD

WJH - It's still 2 tough outings to make you a stronger runner. I echo what Curly said, the thread is about collaboration for improvement. Keep posting - your times give me something to aspire to!

Tried out new shoes this morning - Saucony Hattoris, with zero heel to toe drop. Was expecting some amazing revelation as in "Wow! Barefoot running! How have I ever managed without these!" But in truth they just felt ok until I changed back to my normal shoes after 2 miles, at which point I struggled for the first few hundred metres seemingly hobbling along! I'll persevere with the Hattoris and see if it makes any difference.

28/01/2013 at 10:16

WJH – Keep plugging away consistently and you’ll get the rewards.

Duck – Sounds like the mile was just an off day. Plenty of excellent running from you recently so you are allowed one race that doesn’t go to plan!

YD – Hardcore! You seem to be coping with the miles very well indeed.

Chubby – Go easy in the new shoes, it may take some time to adjust, especially if you are used to a big drop shoe. I like a low heel to toe drop but am not actually keen on zero. I think my training shoes are 10mm and racers 5 or 6mm. I find that’s the best position for me.

I tried running again yesterday but to no avail. I suppose several days off in a row is probably the next course of action. I’m just loathe to lose any hard earned fitness before I get any race times on the board!

28/01/2013 at 12:34

Thanks YD - I got to Leeds in a snow flurry so soon spotted that the thaw hadn't quite happened and kept an eye on the parkruns. As they were cancelled, one by one! I was staying with a friend so let him have the final say on a trip to Harrogate, which came out as a no (his obsession is just not as great as mine) so instead we had a lovely 6 miler in the sunny snow up towards the Chevin. Glorious.

Sounds like anything multi terrain would have been difficult running, so I would read only good things into those Bushy times, Simon and Duck.

Most importantly, of course you belong, WJH - attitude is all! Besides, times come and go. I took my marathon time from 3:22 - 2:57(:59) last year, and was over the moon. Then I joined Kent, ran with PP and could see how much quicker those 10-20 minutes ahead of me go. For some reason that meant more when seeing them as clubmates rather than just as any of the sizeable group of people who beat me in races. Plus I could hear how much harder they train. The point is, I had a great marathon, but once that's settled down it's natural to look at the people ahead and think "how do I get there?". In fact, for me that's been the story of my running - the first few years were a case of "glad I'm not there" as I looked behind and gloried in the fact that I could finish a 10k or whatever. Now I only look at the people ahead.

28/01/2013 at 13:38

Curly - just thought it was a safe way of going full distance. I will probably try it a couple more times in build up, I might use it to go over distance, 23 + 4 or something like that. I am sure I have read about others using the tactic quite successfully.

CB - I found it to be quite a strange experience going from chunky trainers to lightweights and racers, though now I have made the transition, if I ever put an old pair of chunkies on they feel awful.

Sorry to hear that Mr V, fingers crossed you get a reprieve in time for Sunday, a few days off will not make any difference to your fitness.

The Chevin is a nice place to run TOM, you aren’t missing much with Harrogate parkrun IMO, it’s not my favourite.

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