The Middle Ground

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19/02/2013 at 22:10

Where's prf?!  Can I coax him out with some pretty stats?  The cumulative totals for tonight's interval session were: distance 12.34 miles; time 1:34:52.    I opted for the pyramid session, 2x400, 2x600, 2x800, 1k, 2x800, 2x600, 2x400.  So a fair amount of volume but I ran it very controlled (average splits around 74, 1:55, 2:36, 3:19), legs not feeling too bad now.

19/02/2013 at 23:05

Blimey, Phil. The mind boggles. Have I picked it up right that your current big target is the London Marathon? If it's not considered bad luck can I ask what you're aiming for? Sub 2:30 has got to be on the cards? Top 3 in the V40? Top 50 overall? 

Anyway, at the other end of the scale, some highly enjoyable steady miles for me this evening, starting off in the late twilight, and finishing under cold, clear, starry skies. Lovely. Was enjoying it so much added another couple of loops to push it out to 5.5 miles in the end, and after 4 miles around the 8:45 mark, couldn't resist throwing in a more challenging pace in the 5th mile of 7:54. Average of 8:32 pace overall. Felt like a bit of a breakthrough to feel so comfortable and straining at the leash throughout (and at the end of) a run of that length, albeit at a relatively sedate pace. Beginning to gain confidence that I'll actually be able to race this 10k next week - as opposed to just running for a bit, and then hanging on as best I can!

20/02/2013 at 00:09

What's anyone's worst hard luck story with a prize then?

I did some random 10k years back, when they also had a half marathon going on at the same time.

Farcially, they set the half marathon off first, and then set us in the 10k off 5mins later.

Down a narrow road. So guess what happened....that's right...we met a road block of 1000s of runners.

Long story short, came 2nd, without barely seeing 1st or 3rd for any of the race.

Presumed there would be some kind of prize for 2nd.


There wasn't. Sat through all manner of low level prizes and name checks for both races, and didn't even get mentioned as 2nd. The winner got £50 and a massive trophy

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 00:10
20/02/2013 at 07:39
Crikey - I don't post for a day and a bit, and I feel out of touch.

My attempt at a catch-up is below.....

PhilPub - congrats on your PB, and it is incredible that at VLM you might be the slowest member of your club's team... Does that mean many of your club members are elite international athletes?
BBB - sounds like your little girl knows what best for you! 4 yrs old is a great age, and I love it when you hear them say something really smart without realising it...
YD - not surprised you're tired. I've been lurking on the kier thread, and your training load has been pretty intense recently
Curly - congrats on the captaincy, and there continues to be lots of similarities in our training - I did 7.8 miles yesterday @ 08:38 avg, and bouncy is a good way to describe it
Duck - dinnae worry, you're unforgettable. Some impressive training from you recently (and I agree that 20 200s sounds mental )
Mr V - good to hear you're back. I find the first few runs after a lay-off vile, and refer to them as pipe-cleaner runs because I think the body is clearing its pipes....
CB - when is Trafford? You sound like you're in decent shape right now, so hopefully a breakthrough PB is just round the corner...
WJH - congrats on equaling your Parkrun PB, and it sounds sensible, to consolidate at the increased mileage level before pushing on to the next level
Ratzer - welcome back, I've missed your posts commenting on the science of running
Alehouse - good to hear you are recovering well
SG - I've never won a prize...

Phew - I now need to go take a lie down. That was hard work.

Ps - if I've missed anyone, please forgive me... I'm crap at this detail lark.
20/02/2013 at 09:53

SG - I'm sure you can remember my disappointment at not bagging a cabbage last October.  I had the soup recipe lined up and everything. 

BBB - Recent MP training (and racing) suggests sub-2:35 is definitely on the cards. 2:30 doesn't seem quite reachable yet, so somewhere in between.  I'll be more specific after the Finchley 20 in four weeks. I had a look at last year's V40 rankings and top 3 V40 for the race looks a bit ambitious as well, but a team medal would be great.  Nice run last night, sounds very encouraging!

YP - We've had three guys going sub-2:20 in the past couple of years. I think only one of those is doing VLM but we've also got a 2:25 runner coming back to his best form. I'll still have a race on my hands just to make the top 3.

20/02/2013 at 11:38

Sob stories about not getting prizes?  I feel for you, I really do.  

The amazing thing about my new shoes is 18m this morning and no blisters!  New shoes!  No blisters!  I like 'em.  Of course, I'll have to get a new pair soon anyway.  Since buying them on Monday I've done 10.5, 4-ish, and 18 (club last night was in spikes mostly so we won't count anything from that) so I think that's 20% of the recommended mileage meaning that if we extrapolate out I'll need a new pair in 12 days time.

YD, I did 5x400 last night (200 cruise, 200 picking up), then out this morning before brekkie.  I practise what I preach.  When you get to mile 24 and everyone around you is walking - well, actually everyone around you will be pretty competitive - and you're thinking "I've felt like this before and I know I can keep going...".  

Not looking forward to tomorrow on the track and a 600m time trial.  But, I'm taking bets.  I challenge anyone to guess how long it's going to take me to run 600m.  I'll even start you off with a potted summary of me:
Best 200m, 27.55, last August
Best 5k, 19:11, last October?
Presently marathon training, so with 18 today there's no taper...  I'll probably run 4 tomorrow sometime too, just to really take the edge off.
I'll start off the guesses, and I'm offering a pint at the Red Lion for the closest guess.  Remember, I'm doing this tomorrow evening!  I'm hoping to see at least two names on the list by then!

Ratzer's 600m time trial
Ratzer: 1m45s 

20/02/2013 at 15:01

I’ve just gone past a thousand miles in a pair of trainers, they have a few holes in em, suppose I should replace them, I cant complain at 3.5p per mile though, now that’s value for money!

Ratzer, I know you practice what you preach, I took inspiration from your excellent VLM performance last year. Also 18 before breakfast on a school day is impressive!
I wont be doing the hill/long run double this week though, playing it cautious as I have a dull achey feeling right at the top of my left calf. It feels fine when walking and running on the flat but I can feel it when running up hill and walking up steps. When the calf settles back down I will get back onto it.
As for my 600m prediction, 1m45.5s

Impressive catch up YP!

CB – I have to echo what Alehouse is saying to you. Make sure you get a good mix of speeds in your training. I also have come back to running more threshold work over the last 4 or 5 months and have come on quite a bit as a result. I know you do plenty at MP, maybe more of a mix in your tempo running might be helpful.

WHJ – well done on a solid outing at Netley Abbey

That 20*200 and 5*600 session were rapid Duck, seems you are in good shape. Will check out the 5,000m WR vid later tonight.

Nice pace considering the halfy calf Phil

ah the enthusiasm of someone just starting out on there running journey, refreshing to read. Looks like you are enjoying progressive runs as well, they are great fun aren’t they?

As I was saying above, bit of a dull ache right at the top of my calf, just below the knee bend. I feel it when I walk up steps and run up hill, its fine when running on the flat. So, think this week will be a recovery low mileage week to give it a chance to settle down. I will just do easy jogs and if its improving by the weekend will pick the mileage up a bit.
Anyone had anything similar?

As for prizes, I got a bottle of red wine for coming 2nd in a local race last year. It was used for gravy

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 15:02
20/02/2013 at 15:26

Wine as a prize is always an interesting one. Why not some cigs as well while they're at it. Was gutted to get wine for a team prize win years back.

I was gutted last year in a 10k. AT one stage I thought 3rd senior man was a possibility depending on how they did the prizes (came 4th), and thought team prize was guaranteed.

Typically they went with a straight top 3 rather than awarding the vet first vet (fair enough), but very irritatingly, I learnt the hard way that you can;t be 2nd claim and count in a team event. A delightful chap from my OWN CLUB sneakily pointed this out to the organisers. Lovely chap!

20/02/2013 at 15:27

What is it with the calf epidemic?

YD, I did a hilly HM in the cold a week last sunday and the calf has been dodgy since then, until today!!!!

I've had 2 massages though, and had a week without running, and just easy/recovery pace runs this week. My pain was a little lower down the calf but has materialised higher and lower???!!!???

Take care, ease off a little, massage, plenty of stretching initially, then some heel raises and strengthening. My guess is something else will be causing it, and the favourites in order are:

1. Feet/ankles.

2. Quads.

3. Hips/hamstrings.

4. Lower back.

Or, a combination of these.......

If they don't improve over a week or so... visit the fizz.

20/02/2013 at 15:30

Ah prizes! That's an easy one for me. I got the highest break in a snooker competition (team knockout that went on for a few months), and went to the presentation night.

I received an envelope with 2 pound coins in!!!!!!!!!!! Beat that!

20/02/2013 at 15:36
Ratzer - 1'42 is my guess.
20/02/2013 at 16:10

YD - Of all my woes, the calves have never given me much grief, so I defer to our learned friend Brian on that one!  I have however had various problems that are exacerbated by hills so if an easy week of very flat running only is bearable I guess it'll at least help ticking over.

Ratzer - Is the drink on offer even if your own guess is the closest?  I can't be having any match rigging on this most congenial of threads!    1:43.7.

I've won two bottles of wine in races.  One was a very nice bottle of white at the Staplehurst 5 miler, which went down very nicely with a bit of salmon that evening IIRC.  The other was a completely undrinkable concoction I won by coming fourth in a mountain race in British Columbia when I went to visit my brother in Vancouver. I felt guilty at the time, cos it was actually the "1st M30-39" prize and I was beaten by three M40s.  Karma in action maybe.

Speaking of prizes, I'm currently wearing my new Brooks Defyance running shoes, which were my bounty for the Chichester 10k. They're the same fit as my first "proper" running shoes (Brooks Adrenaline GTS7) but with the medial support taken out, so more neutral and a tad lighter. In my mind that ought to make them similar to the Nike Zoom Elite 5 I've happily been wearing for 949 miles.  7 miles later to see whether they might be my new mileage monsters of choice. 


20/02/2013 at 16:11

Cheers Brian. I have had calf issues before, I saw a physio and he said it was caused by poor hip flexibility and weak glutes. Lunges, glute bridges and lots of stretching helped with that. So I am going to up the work in that area for the week to see if it improves things.
As for your prize, the envelope was probably worth more than it’s contents! Was it sealed? You could use it again if not, you high roller you

Stevie – I hardly put a bottle of plonk in the same class as a packet of fags!

20/02/2013 at 17:21

Ratzer: 99.9 (I like the sound of it and I'm sure PRF would approve...mind you he will probably call in with 101.01 or something similar!). Make sure you
a) warm up well,
b) don't let me down.

Walked 4.5k yesterday, 5k today, but the 50 metre slow run tells me I am not ready to run yet. No surprise really as it is only 5 days post op and the consultant would probably be surprised that I can walk as much as I have done.

Don't mention calves please.

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 17:23
20/02/2013 at 18:33
Ooh - guessing games

Ratzer, my guess is 101 seconds, before prf nicks it as a pleasing palindrome...
20/02/2013 at 18:44

anyone else got any palindrome current pbs? My 10k is on the delightful 34:43 at the moment.

20/02/2013 at 20:54

No palidrome numbers for me Stevie G but I did do 3 races in a row last year with the following (possibly not in order);

Victory 5 - 33:00 (allbeit with a 10k number)

Bristol Half - 1:35:00

Cardiff Parkrun - 20:00

Then....the Cardiff half in close call again there to finishing on the minute! 

Ratzer - good luck with that! I'll go with 1:42.8  Hope the legs arn't too heavy with the long run added in! 

YD - hope the calf niggle clears quickly! I had a calf strain last summer which went in the middle of a 5 mile steady run. I felt my right calf (just a feeling in the muscle) before setting off and thought nothing of it...then at about 3 miles I had to pull up suddenly and had no choice but to walk the rest home. I had to stop training for about 7-10 days but it did come at a good time as it happened the evening before the Olympic opening ceremony!  I'd never had any calf problems/issues before so just rested it and have had no problems since....having looked it up it could have been a grade 1 calf strain (???). I will certainly head the warnings if I ever get a heavy 'feel' with it again!  

Will definitely keep your suggested 1,200 workout suggestion in mind Duck. I like a faster speedwork session like this once a week what with my natural speed being a weakness....and I like to vary it to keep it interesting! 

Good to hear the training is going well BBB - all good preparation for the debut 10k! 

Oh and i've never won a prize let alone one in an official race......although did win the fastest senior male 10k at my club a few years ago now (in 2009 I think) for a time of roughly 46 minutes at the annual 10k club race! We are not the fastest club (a lot of faster runners tend to join Stubbington Green Runners nearby) although there are a couple of faster young ones who have some potential at the moment which is encouraging to see! If anything, my club should win a prize for always getting lost at relay races although that's a completely different story altogether!  

Good session last night at my club...3x1 mile loops with roughly a 2 minute jog/walk back to the start. Splits were 6:05, 6:08 and 6:10. I did an equivalent session in September last year with the splits being 6:07,6:24 and 6:28. So pleasing to see some improvement (calculated at being 3.2%). Happy at that. 

Planning a long run tomorrow with half a day off work and possibly thinking of entering the Winchester Chronicle 10k on Sunday...if I do this, I may decide to ditch my planned threshold run next Tuesday and possibly do a shorter tempo/threshold run later in the week with the Llanelli Waterside half on 3rd of March! 

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 21:00
20/02/2013 at 20:59

lovely round numbers there old son.

20/02/2013 at 21:02

I bet i'll never get a rounded number result now for the rest of my running life, let alone three! 

20/02/2013 at 21:46

in fairness you don't really want a rounded number, you want under it!

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