The Middle Ground

alehouse - Great to see you back out there. 

Get in, Stevie!!  Good course isn't it.  Think I might get down there for some attempted PB-smashing when it warms up a bit.

Ratzer - a safe prediciton there!  Good hard run, cotton wool time on the niggles.

BBB - Difficuilt one this, as everyone's perception of discomfort is different. My danger period in a 10k is much earlier in the race, i.e. there's a danger in not pushing it enough through 4k-6k and letting pace slack off, cos it's not far enough in to know you can afford to let it hurt.  Ultimately, how early you can afford enter the hurt box depends not only on mental toughness but also endurance.  So it's an iterative learning experience, allbiet not always a comfortable one!

Dash - Nice.  Everything lasts longer than Deal or No Deal in my house.

38 moderately comfortable bike miles today, trying out my new (tri) shoes before next week's duathlon.  All good.  Just heading out to De Hem's now, London's only Dutch pub as far as I am aware. They have a range of beverages from the neighbouring Belgians.

 

Dash / Phil - interesting thoughts, thanks. Seems I'm looking for a shortcut to the experience that only getting out there and actually running one will give me!

'Embrace the hurt' - like that! Think that's my mantra sorted over the last couple of km when everything is screaming 'stop you bloody idiot!'

Missed your last, para, Phil.

Jealous. That's the last thing I needed to read as I try eschew the booze this weekend...until the minute I walk back through the front door at lunchtime tomorrow!

Enjoy.

Alehouse - great news. Really pleased to hear you've started properly on the road back. You're due a huge dose of good luck and  look forward to seeing you climb up the WAVA table over the coming months.

Stevie -  great 5K!

No run for me today but did watch the boy doing the last Leeds Schools XC of the season. A solid 5th place which should leave in him 3rd spot in the individual league ... 800/1500 training  starts for him now.

Thanks Dan!  Good work from the boy! What age group is he?

Noticed that a few Barnsleyites were able to get the necessary visa to cross the border and then exit it again to get into Cheshire for the first Delamere parkrun. How was it? Well done Hilly on beating the guys (on points anyway)! I didn't realise it was the first one today otherwise I might have gone, although I promised to meet up with Dr. Hill a week or so ago. Results look reasonably quick. +25 seconds??

DASH RIPROD wrote (see)

Bob, 10k is a funny distance. have never seemed to run one well. i have 'effortlessly' ran a 10 miler and 5 miler once each before and while obviously in fair shape at those times  i think the main reasons were that 10 mile is at  threshold so is relatively comfortable and the 5 mile seemed like a 10k but in sheeps clothing! of course, i could be spouting utter bollox which is usually the case.

This is the value you add to this thread!

Agree on the 5miler to 10k thing. They're quite similar in pace, so naturally having to find 1.2miles extra at the same pace can rankle a bit.

Also the maths is neater, simply 5x1mile, not 6x1mile and an arse end.

Good luck with your 10k tomorrow BBB!

Duck and Ratzer some seriously fast speed there and good consolidation with the 3k. Are you also more of a fast twitch endurance type runner too then Ratzer?

Congrats on the sub 17 Stevie good going and to Alehouse on the Parkrun!

Good to see less discomfort in training Mr V, great attitude to have there too and ill try and think like that in the Llanelli half tomorrow no matter how its going...at the end of the day it's a fine tuning race leading up to Brighton so a good performance will be a bonus!

Good luck yourself, WJH. What'll you be happy with tomorrow?

Sub 90 minutes will be a big bonus but it will just be good to finish strongly and get some even split pacing! Weather looks good for it too as I've heard if often gets windy round that way, although meant to be a very scenic course around the Wales coastal path...will know more about all that tomorrow

Aye, looks like some cracking weather for you there! Light winds here too, but a bit more cloud around than today which has been a real belter.

Go well - drop by with an update if you can.

Stevie - well done . A glance at my parkrun times would show I very rarely run them flat out. I must be an absolute nightmare for anyone intending to use me as a guide, I hardly ever have a plan for them. Sometimes it is a spontaneous blast, other times a social few miles within a 12 miler or something. I treat parkrun on a XC day the same way as I would doing an easy double before an afternoon or evening race.

The exception to that is I ran my 5K pb of 19.35 in the morning too long ago, cry) and started at the back in XC the same afternoon so as not to go off too fast (doing it the opposite way that day, I was intending to just show my face for the club and wasn't bothered about any kind of time/position), but went on to fairly easily progressing the pace and being first counter.

That said, today was horrendous. The course itself wasn't bad, the weather was nice, wasn't hugely muddy, apart from a couple of sections and not too hilly, but my breathing was way off by 400m. I've DNS'd a few times, but have never DNF'd before and whilst I have had some horrible, disastrous, miserable races in the past, today was the first time I had seriously, seriously considered calling it quits.

I was miles from being any kind of counter today, but kept going - cos I'm stubborn as owt - and finished it. Club retains our lead with one race to go and I live another day. One more race and then I go back to the main pack next season and don't have to have a stupid 2 minute handicap, which is just cruel when you're race unfit, like me.

Poor Minni just got moved up last race so will have to stay with the handicap for all of next season regardless of how she starts off the season next year. Lucky you

Good luck to Minni and WJH in their HM's tomorrow and to BBB in the 10K.

10K's just hurt full stop. 5K is brutal but over quickly, you have time in a HM + to ease off and recover, but 10K, you have to start strong and just endure it!

fair dos then Kaysdee, sounds like you did well to ride those feelings out. Give into the DNF for reasons other than injury and in the back of your mind you'll always feel it's an option! It's those kind of races that you'll remember on the next pb.

ps, i had thoughts of just quitting when the first half mile at sub 5min pace was coming back to haunt me.  It was never going to happen though!

But then i realised how ridiculous that would sound on the report....hour drive to a  5k and pulling out

Kelly - Kudos for carrying on. I've heard it can be a slippery slope on the DNFs, although I've managed to avoid them so far!  Closest I came was the sole 10,000m race I've done on a windy evening in Biggleswade.  (Sounds like a really bad folk song or something...) About 3k in, it occurred to me that I felt about as uncomfortable as I would expect to feel in a 5k... with 17.5 laps to go! Now I have to run another one just to deal with the trauma.

Off out for a long one soon. Head's a little fuzzy after a beer or three.  Started on the Kwak (8.4) then it went something like Rochefort 8 (9.2), Westmalle Tripel (9.5), Chimay Bleue (9.0)... then on to a cracking bbq place where I calmed it down with a Kernel IPA (5.2) but apparently it's the done thing to wash down your meal with a bourbon shot.  So if the run goes badly I'm blaming it on the bourbon.

Good luck with the races everyone! 

Kelly.. well done you on battling through, I had a similar feeling last week after 2 miles of a 10 miler! (read on).

Nice long run Ratzer and good to see an enjoyable 12m from Mr Viper on the way back to recovery.

Great news Alehouse and congrats on your first comeback race.  You'll be back up to sub 20 in no time! 

Stevie.. classy stuff!  There's a local lad who was running circa 17 around Xmas time, he has gradually improved and clocked 15:56 yesterday!  Shows what can be done, get with the program!

Bad run for me at Snake Lane last week - 71:08 was poor by my standards.  Around 2.5m I went through a rough patch, heavy legs, HR up etc so had to slow down.  Decided to try and run through it and got back to circa 6:45 pace at 6m but by then the damage was done.  I just put it down to a bad day and carry on regardless.

Better fortunes at the York Parkrun yesterday, lovely cold & sunny morning.  My last 2 efforts post sore ribs have been 20:30 & 20:11 so I fancied a crack at circa 20 mins.  Ran the whole thing 6:20-6:25 pace though I think I left my eyeballs on the grass verge in the last k!  Pleased to clock 19:52 though I didn't even win the V55 race with that!  

Might as well stick that in the WAVA table.

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (November-February) Calculator here:http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

85.79% PhilPub (10k, 33:07, February)
82.34% Hilly (10M, 66:45, December)

79.26% Duck (60m, 8.1, December)
77.86% PRF (10K, 38:12, February)
77.71% SG (10K, 34:43, February)
77.35% Wardi (5k 19:52 March)
77.08% YD  (10K, 35:24, February)
73.84% Curly45 (5k, 20:03, February)
73.52% Dr.Dan (10K, 40:27, November)
72:09% Minni (5m 35:11, November)
71.43% MrV (5M 29.52 November)

59.56% CB (10K, 46:20, December)

Need to add one back in: BR, Simon, Ratzer, YoungPup, Dash, dav3c, RobT

Well done yesterday Wardi! I am a long, long way off sub 20! But at least I can run again, which is the main thing. Although not today as my "good" calf is too tender. Back to a long walk, which as PRF has pointed out, is good background work when returning to running.

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (November-March) Calculator here:http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

85.79% PhilPub (10k, 33:07, February)
82.34% Hilly (10M, 66:45, December)

79.26% Duck (60m, 8.1, December)
77.86% PRF (10K, 38:12, February)
77.71% SG (10K, 34:43, February)
77.35% Wardi (5k 19:52 March)
77.08% YD  (10K, 35:24, February)
73.84% Curly45 (5k, 20:03, February)
73.52% Dr.Dan (10K, 40:27, November)
72:09% Minni (5m 35:11, November)
71.43% MrV (5M 29.52 November)

59.56% CB (10K, 46:20, December)
57.16% Alehouse (5k 27:49 March)

Need to add one back in: BR, Simon, Ratzer, YoungPup, Dash, dav3c, Wardi,  RobT

Do the Novemeber races now get removed?

Good luck racing peeps and well done Kelly and Wardi.
With regards to the DNF thing, try and avoid unless injured as it is contagious and after a year of racing successfully I did it once ( buggered the pacing in a HM) and consequently have done it since in a really important race when I threw my toys from the pram when in hindsight I was still on for a decent time. Being a mentallist it's always at the back of my mind now as I'm flakier than a really flaky man with eczema!

Anyhow, managed 12 miles earlier without calf-pain but as ever, not without incident . Managed to gag on a gel ( freebies so thought I'd try one) which over-heated and entered my gullet at Mach 2 . Am obviously a spitter and not a swallower..

Wardi - cracking sub-20!

Dash - nice!    (It's been roughly one hour since my last gel-related innuendo. My long run partner describing the SIS Go gel slipping down the throat...)

The hangover was pleasantly mild and didn't seem to affect HR too much.  21 miles @ 6:52, paciest LR so far for average HR 140/69% max. Lovely morning for a run.  Come on Spring!!

Well that was a blast!

More later once I've had a bath, a feed and got official confirmation but I ended up smashing what I was hoping for even at the very top end of my expectations.

Something well inside 46 minutes. Read 45:45 as I crossed the line, and I must have been a good few seconds back at the start.

In agony now but bloody loved it, and absolutely delighted. At 42, this gives me a 63%+ age grading off 3 months training from never having run in my life before.

Woo!

Wardi cracking time for V55, and not even the fastest one? Blimey.

Not sure where you dug that WAVA table out from, you deleted my half off, cheeky lad.

Aley, good to see you back on.

alehouse wrote (see)

Well done yesterday Wardi! I am a long, long way off sub 20! But at least I can run again, which is the main thing. Although not today as my "good" calf is too tender. Back to a long walk, which as PRF has pointed out, is good background work when returning to running.

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (November-March) Calculator here:http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

85.79% PhilPub (10k, 33:07, February)
82.34% Hilly (10M, 66:45, December)

79.26% Duck (60m, 8.1, December)
78.16% SG   (HM, 75:41, February)
77.86% PRF (10K, 38:12, February)
77.35% Wardi (5k 19:52 March)
77.08% YD  (10K, 35:24, February)
73.84% Curly45 (5k, 20:03, February)
73.52% Dr.Dan (10K, 40:27, November)
72:09% Minni (5m 35:11, November)
71.43% MrV (5M 29.52 November)

59.56% CB (10K, 46:20, December)
57.16% Alehouse (5k 27:49 March)

Need to add one back in: BR, Simon, Ratzer, YoungPup, Dash, dav3c, Wardi,  RobT

Do the Novemeber races now get removed?

as you were!