The Middle Ground

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07/03/2013 at 21:11
Ratzer - aye, would be nice to race the guy in question. Would probably spur us both on, but alas we're on opposite sides of the Midlands. Fascinating stuff this sitting too long theory. Remarkable that it can potentially offset the effects of vigorous exercise to such an extent. Find it quite hard to believe personally,but there does seem to be a growing body of evidence to support it. Food for thought...whilst getting up and wandering about obviously, rather than sitting in a chair and stroking your chin!

Phil and Curly - Right. Advice noted. Will resist the temptation to overdo the racing and try to only really target the parkruns once or twice a month at most. Good variety of training going on there from you by the sounds of it Curly!

And yes, weight. I'm getting a bit fed up with folk telling me I've lost too much weight, or 'ooh, you're not going to lose any more are you?'

Tiresome. As mentioned earlier, I'm over 6' 1" and have been stable at 11st 8lb for some months now. Gives me a BMI of over 21 and just about smack in the middle of the normal range. Yes, most people probably do carry more weight than me, and I have done myself throughout adulthood until recently, but that's because we're a nation where being a fat feck is increasingly the norm. I'm tempted to lose another couple or three pounds (certainly no more than that), but I don't think I can be arsed with the earache!

Alehouse - sorry to hear your comeback has been stopped in its tracks so abruptly. Hope it's a brief pause.
07/03/2013 at 21:31
Duck - cross-post. Remarkable stuff from your old lady. 3rd on the all time V50 mile list! Looks like she's still getting quicker too despite the advancing years! Great stuff.

And yep, that will be the plan on Saturday. Looks like there's a few more at the Rushcliffe Parkrun who will probably be running at about the pace I'm looking for than at my 'home' Colwick run. Hopefully that will help drag me round too. I've all too often found myself running alone there - forever seem to be in something of a gap between the committed athletes and the casual runners.
Edited: 07/03/2013 at 21:32
07/03/2013 at 22:23

Duck yes I'm in Edinburgh, I think the furthest north I travelled to a race last year was Glen Clova.

Just been to a running-workshop and the Edinburgh AC coach recommended training sessions at above intended race pace which baffled me a bit as I thought you trained at current fitness levels. Unless he meant if training for a half do sessions at 10k+5K pace, but that's not what he seemed to be saying. Any thoughts on such an approach?

Curly sounds like a good club session. The only time I got BMI into the 18 range was following a dose of winter vomiting, not the best training strategy!

07/03/2013 at 22:43

No music links for me, maybe the Steptoe theme tune for Dash

Looking forward to hearing that you have smashed that chef and his fancy bike this weekend Phil

Vellooo – nice reps last night, especially the 3rd one  I don’t have a problem with trying to run at target pace, but the session should be adjusted accordingly and paces should be introduced in shorter bursts at first. Example, you might think 5 x 1m @ 10k pace off 2 mins is doable. If it was 10k target pace I might be tempted to start with 7 x 1k at target pace and build up to 4 x 1m in time.

Good session Curly

How were the MP reps Ratzer (not intervals before Alehouse gets me!)?

fingers crossed it’s just a minor blip on the comeback trail.

Bob – use parkruns to test different pacing strategies out, don’t fret of you balls it up on Sat, there’s always next week!

Duck – nice easy pace for you this morning, more on the injury below…

I have been to see the physio again, he gave my quads, hammies and hips a right pounding, it bloody hurt! He has recommended I take a week off running to give the hamstring damage time to heal while I work on the exercises he has given me (some new extra tough ones tonight).
He is sure it’s not serious I just need to get my legs balanced out, but I reckon the Manchester Marathon is off for me now, at least as a race. Edinburgh the month after might be an option, depends how soon I get back to proper training really.
Not too upset, there’s plenty good races to target once I am fit again!

08/03/2013 at 10:07

Ah, MP reps, YD... Failed last night following a long, interesting walk.  Did them this morning but on surprisingly tired legs.  Managed 4 MP miles at the same pace as Tuesday but they felt more like 10kP-Threshold, until I discovered that the treadmill gradient was set slightly high and adjusted sometime in the third mile.  Too late by then.  Combination of initial tiredness and mounting fatigue did for me, plus the prospect of another long walk today (Russia is on holiday) and a desire to fit a few more easy miles in this evening.

Not good to hear about the latest results and your thoughts on them.  I would say if you think the Manchester Marathon is off, take it off.  Don't even consider your first marathon as a race, it's a fact-finding mission - so if it's off as a fact-finding mission, then it should be completely off.

Right, off to the Kremlin.  Bit late really today, but I've got the whole weekend.

08/03/2013 at 10:32
YD, really bad news - sorry to hear that's the diagnosis and probable outcome. Hopefully Edinburgh is an option as you've been going so well recently.

Ratzer, ditto on slower sessions. My 400/400/300/300/200 (equal jog rec.) today was relatively slow - didn't feel hard but didn't have any pace. Felt like I was running 29.xx effort for the 200, and it came out at 32! 10 hours at work yesterday may have had something to do with it. In any case I got a mile at ~4.30/m avg without it being exhausting which is pretty good.
08/03/2013 at 10:40

Duck – Thanks for the shoe recommendation though not sure I can get them in my size. I take at least a 13, usually a 14 so my choice is limited! I’ve decided I hate my new Asics. So much I can’t even run in them. Did 2 miles last night and had to return home and change shoes. My Brooks Launch felt like slippers in comparison. So that’s a massive waste of money and I still haven’t found a replacement for my Brooks Launch...

Bob – being naturally lean is a definite advantage for a runner. I’m 6ft 2 and 12 and a quarter stone (probably) at the moment. I’m usually under 12 when in full training so you have less to carry than me, even when I’m ‘lean.’

YD – Shame re the marathon but seems like you are taking it in the right way and as you say plenty of other races you can do.

08/03/2013 at 10:46

YD sorry to hear about the diagnosis... but I'm going to disagree with Ratzer here. Personally, I would still run the race but as an easy long run then take a week or two off training. The reason being, if you train for a race and reach a peak and then skip the race and try to plough on it can be difficult on the body and on your mental state. I wouldnt look to E'burgh for the same reason, but find a nice 10k to do a month after and then train for an autumn mara if you want to do another this year.

Ratzer sounds like you are getting lots in even if its tough going with being out of your usual routine.

Duck I find the same when I do long shifts at work... but nevermind the fatigue will melt off soon and the paces will be back!

Just about to head out for an easy 6, then the same tomorrow, then 21 on Sun with:

5 miles easy, 14 miles steady (moving up the range), cd

Should be interesting, doesnt feel as challenging as last week, but probably is!

08/03/2013 at 13:39
Sorry to hear of the marathon plans being derailed YD! If you do have to wait a bit longer then it will be even more satisfying to then hit your intended targets! I reckon you will with the hours and miles you put in!

Mr V - I have generally run about 35-38 miles a week for the past month or so (probably about 25 to low 30's in January so have built things up a bit since then largely due to the longer marathon runs!). Certainly not the level you have been doing with the base building!

Thanks Dash! I think it is just a case as I say of running more mileage recently! I still think that there are things I could do to improve though...I have only recently set out a schedule of sorts to take me up to Brighton although have been keeping a record of every training run and race I have done since January last year! I also suspect that I am better suited at the longer distances too so it will be interesting to see if i can get a WAVA matching up for the shorter races! Hope you build things up to where you want to be!

Duck - I knew you have said about your mum being fast before but THAT fast! Wow!!! Good reps from you too and from you as well Vellooo especially with it being so breezy!

Sounds like one step back to go two forwards Alehouse? Hope the calf niggle clears up!

BBB - so what do you prefer out of running and cricket? Or do they both go hand in hand? I play inline hockey and its a slippery slope downhill with all the youngsters coming through so for me personally, I get more enjoyment out of running these days. That's probably also because of playing a team game for so long whereas your running performance is solely down to the training and effort you put in yourself!

Weight is a subject I'm obsessed with because I do think its an area which I can improve with...currently about 12 stone 5 and five ft 9 so think there are improvements to be made there...easier said than done with me though!!!

So lot have really got me thinking on this. Hmmmm! I think I should man up and try for 3:30 then as long as I get the long runs in this month! At worst it won't work out but surely my knees won't let me down again like with previous attempts!? Maybe i'm being over cautious worrying on that? Planning on 20 tomorrow (combined with a Parkrun) but aiming to hit intended MP for the last 5/6 miles. Looking forward to it and equally dreading that thought at the same time! Perhaps that will go further towards narrowing down to an intended target time...Good luck with your planned effort tomorrow Curly, that sounds like a really tough training run but that's what it's all about isn't it!
08/03/2013 at 14:06

MP feeling like 10kp-Threshold is exactly how my last MP session felt before my recent breakdown. Take it easy Ratzer.

“In any case I got a mile at ~4.30/m avg without it being exhausting which is pretty good.” Excellent way of looking at it Duck

Mr V – I have brooks Green Silence and they are prtetty roomy, have you tried to get a pair of them? They are going cheap on the Sportshoes website.

21miles w/ 14 steady is a good workout Curly, what is steady, MP +30 seconds ish?
You will feel it the next day I would have thought.

WHJ – A 1:27 half should point to a faster than 3:30 Marathon I would have thought. Why don’t you go and canvass opinion on the 3:30 and 3:15 Marathon threads, get a broad range of opinions from those with experience and similar times under their belts?

Thanks for the well wishes and thoughts guys, been thinking about options, and should I decide to bin the spring Marathon altogether then I might look into autumn Marathon options.
Off the top of my head I can think of the folowing UK Marathons:
Yorkshire Marathon (full, not sure if I can get a spot if someone drops out, Mr V do you know what the rules are?)
Abingdon (full but can usually get a spot from what I hear)
Newcastle Town Moor
Wolverhampton – any others?

08/03/2013 at 14:24

Depends how big an event you want YD...

New Forest, Loch Ness, Isle of Wight, Bournemouth, Greensands, Northumberland Castles, Dublin, Portsmouth Coastal, Saxon shore and Cornish all in the autumn. No idea which are flat, suitable and on the right dates, but plenty on the starting list at least!

WJH man up and pick a faster target

08/03/2013 at 14:53

YD – Cheers I did look but unfortunately nothing in my size. I don’t think transfers are allowed for the Yorkshire Marathon. Shame as I could do with some company (not that I’d be keeping pace!) You can’t beat Abingdon’s reputation if you think you can get a spot.

WJH – I’m no marathon expert so wouldn’t want to suggest a pace. 3.30 still seems a little on the conservative side with a 1.27 half to your name. However I suppose your mileage base is relatively small in terms of converting really well to the full marathon.

08/03/2013 at 15:15
Come do Loch Ness YD and you can stay with us

Mr V - 14 in Brooks? Wow O_O Brooks aren't exactly small either...

Curly, true. Was a bit frustrating to feel like I was flying without pushing the pace then to see 71 cor 400!

Looks a nice little session to look forward to
08/03/2013 at 16:58

Just looked it up Mr V, number swaps are not permitted, oh well.

Curly, I would prefer a road Marathon that gives me an opportunity for a decent time. Chester or Abingdon sound like the best options for that. Wolverhampton, Town Moor and Northumberland Castles might be races I can position high in and run reasonable times, so could be maybe options. I will look into some of the others you have suggested, thanks.

Duck – thanks for the offer, doesn’t sound like a race to run a fast time at! Bet the views are nice though…..

WHJ - yea as others have said man up   

08/03/2013 at 20:01

YD Sorry it looks like the marathon is off, but if you decide to do Edinburgh I can tell you all about the course or any other local info you need. Moray marathon in Sept is supposed to be a good one, I think it's fairly flat.

WHJ exciting times! sub 3.30 sounds more than possible!

08/03/2013 at 21:31
Y D - Loch Ness is hard! Hills are very hard on the legs, I wouldn't choose that as a first marathon.

Edinburgh is a great course but is usually rough weather wise - I'm doing the HM this year, starts at 8am, yawn. The two years I did the marathon were 27 degrees plus and with it being out and back, the wind can be a real issue.

You know how I feel about Town Moor, ha.

Abingdon is fab.

Join Minni in the Castles marathon.

WHJ - yes, man up. I did 3.28 off a 1.35 the month before.

I would have thought 1.27 would convert closer to 3.15, although to be realistic, your mileage probably wouldn't support it this time around.

Curly - you are doing some monster sessions lately
08/03/2013 at 22:07
YD - Disappointing news regarding the marathon, but like your positive outlook.

MrV - Wouldn't describe myself as naturally lean by any means! I am now finding it easy to control my weight after the change of lifestyle and diet however, but I'm a stone down on any previous adult weight.

Just the 21 again on Sunday, then Curly!

WJH - Cricket. That's a good question, though one I can't really answer at this stage. My cricket's been massively important to me for the last 15 years since I took the game up again at the age of 27 after a 10 year hiatus, but I've got similar problems to you with the ageing process. I loved being an integral part of a side that won promotion to the second tier of club cricket in the County, but the influx of quality players (including a pro as all the sides in that division have them) and the development of younger cricketers meant I didn't get long to adjust before one poor score and some dire fielding performances saw me lose my spot. I knew the writing was on the wall then at that club, so came back to my local club, and was a little disappointed not to get a shot in the 1st XI who were in the same division last season as they struggled and got relegated, but I never quite made the statement with my batting to demand a spot, and my lack of fitness meant I looked every bit the bloke in his 40s in the field. They'll be back in the division where I had a great deal of success at my previous club in 2010 this season, but I'm not convinced there's any appetite to look in my direction even though the club will be without last season's pro and there's a couple of batsmen who did get an opportunity last season who averaged about 2 and 9 respectively!

Like you I appreciate that I'm getting out of running exactly what I put into it which isn't always the case with cricket for all sorts of reasons. That's making me lean towards the running at this stage, though it could all change once the sun starts shining, I pull the whites on and get into the dressing room with the lads again. Much might depend on if I can force my way into the 1st XI as that would definitely motivate me to prove a thing or two to myself again, not to mention a few others at the club. 2nd XI cricket, or heaven forbid worse, and I'll probably just turn up on a Saturday for the craic, take what the season throws at me, and continue to concentrate on my running. Turning up to a winter net session or two would probably help though - the fact I haven't yet probably tells its own story!

I'm intending to follow your example in upping the mileage from next week by the way - 25, 27, 30 over the next 3 weeks all being well - hope I get the good results of it that you have! Good luck with your 20 tomorrow - that still sounds incredibly daunting to me...but then the 9 miler I've got planned for Sunday would have seemed lunacy only a few weeks ago.

Right, parkrun in the morning...hoping for big things. The irritating cough I've picked up today isn't filling me with confidence mind. Easy 2.5 miles with strides tonight made me feel a bit better, but just getting my excuse in early I suppose!
09/03/2013 at 10:10
So, to expand on the excuses. The irritating cough kept me awake until nearly 3am, the little 'un woke me up at 6.30am, the nose has turned into a snot factory overnight, and the legs felt like jelly this morning.

All in all then, I suppose I ought to be pleased with what should be a 40 second PB and hitting the sub-22 target at around 21:56 or 21:57 once the official results come through, but I can't help but feel frustrated and wonder what I might have done without the distractions!

Went off a bit too hard as well, with the first few hundred yards at under 6:00 mile pace, but looking on the bright side, it leaves something for next time I suppose!
09/03/2013 at 10:22

Nice work BBB sub 22 is a brilliant milestone - one of the best things about parkrun is you get a chance to have another go next week

I was thinking about a little parkrun this morning before marshalling this afternoon at a race but decided sleep was more the order of the day after a manic shift yesterday evening. Feel much better for a lie in but need to get out for a run asap and stop dallying!

09/03/2013 at 12:45

Bob.. I had to smile when I read your pace on setting off.  I always find with 5k races that so many runners set off at 1500m pace and fade badly!  This includes a couple of V60's at my local Parkrun who are old enough to know better!  I was 26th at 1k today and finished 15th!  As Curly says the great thing about Parkrun is you can simply turn up to the next one if you have a bad run, the weather is crap etc.  Nice one on breaking 22 mins, once you have done a few 5k's you will find the right pace easier to settle into and the times will start to drop.

Not the best morning at York Racecourse Parkrun, damp, cold, and windy on the stand side!  I battled through to 4k in 15:56 with the aforementioned wind threatening to put the dampers on my sub 20 attempt.  My k pace gradually dropped to 4:29 into the wind (3:59 needed!) so a sustained mega effort with gurning to match PP brought me back to a fighting chance on the last corner.  Crossed the line in 19:54 so a happy bunny.

Y D.. sorry to hear you are struggling.  Marathon training does seem to dig out imbalances, old injuries etc.  Best of luck with whatever you decide, I would recommend a Polish marathon, it is so cheap over there it would probably be more economical than doing an English one!

Alehouse.. shame your dodgy calf has swopped sides.  Hope you make progress on all fronts.

Curly.. hope the long run goes well, and that your weather is better than up here for it!

Edited: 09/03/2013 at 12:51
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