The Middle Ground

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09/03/2013 at 13:15

YD, I took your concern to heart.  After about three hours walking I did run, but at about 8'45" pace, and stopped when it got to be too much after 8 miles, which did make yesterday just under a 15 mile double.  Nothing seemed wrong except an expected tiredness in the legs, however I've taken today off to go sightseeing (about 4 hours walking which was enough for me) and drinking (if I can find a decent pub showing the rugby).

BBB, a reasonable Bubka'ing of the 22 there.  Plenty more in reserve for the next PB.  How did the other guy go?

Nice shift against the elements, Wardi.

Curly, you do enjoy running long, don't you?  Nice variety of paces you have going there though.  Anyone would think you were being set sessions by someone who had a strong belief in multipace training.

09/03/2013 at 13:45
Curly, Wardi, Ratzer - thanks.

Jealous of that lie in, Curly!

Wardi - Congrats on your sub-20 too - great effort in those conditions! And yes, that over eager start certainly hurt me in the 2nd mile. Splits of 6:59 and 7:08 over the first 2 miles tell a story. Recovered enough to dig out a 6:56 third mile, and 5:40 pace over the closing sprint. Got dipped on the line by a guy I'd been battling with for most of the second half of the race, and I think that helped us both keep pushing, but somehow he ended up with 21:54 versus my 21:57 on the official times so not quite sure how that works, but never mind!

Ratzer - the guy in Brum could only churn out a 22:06 today, so I've claimed that particular friendly challenge. Aye, Bubka'ing indeed, though not intentionally, was really pushing for 21:45 today! Enjoy the sightseeing and the rugby - looking forward to the latter myself - is it Moscow you're holed up in at the moment? Looked freezing over there on the coverage of Newcastle's Euro game in midweek!
09/03/2013 at 20:43

LOL to Ratzer Hope you found a pub!

Great to get a sub 20 Wardi given the tough condifitions, we're not due anything too bad just yet.

Alehouse any news on the good now bad calf?

I hear via the medium of fb that PRF had a good run at Hull parkrun today.

Got my 6 in, sturggling to keep my pace down at the moment though, which is a good problem to have of course, so toppped off with 17 miles cycling to get to the race and back which was nice. Pitiful pace though - nothing like a sport not your own to teach you your own inadequcies

Edited: 09/03/2013 at 20:44
09/03/2013 at 21:19

Curly: trying to keep you r pace down is, indeed, a great problem to have! I wish! My "good" (now bad) calf has improved a little, but I want to get some decent volume/pace walks in before I consider running. Frustrating!

CB: I may well now go to Trafford, and will be wearing a "Worsley Woods Trail Race" pink hat! (As it is cold I dare say I will be wearing quite a lot of other stuff as well! Black Ronhill Goretex top, Asics shoes and probably 10 pairs of bottoms!)

Wardi: Another sub-20 represents decent progress, given the conditions. Well done!

BBB: A PB is a PB is a PB! What was the WAVA: is it in line with the 10k?

And I read through the medium of the parkrun site that PRF had a decent run at Hull today!

Only sport here today was watching two rugby matches, and neither were exciting enough to get the pulse racing. Plus walking round the shops and supermarkets: at least that was pain free, wallet apart!

09/03/2013 at 22:41
Alehouse - Yes, you're right. A 40 second PB is not to be sniffed at. As has already been pointed out this week, I should try not to over think these things, and thus put such demanding expectations on my own shoulders. It's pushing me along though. 25:35 was my first parkrun time back in December, so 3:38 worth of improvement in 3 months including a fortnight's illness with no running. WAVA was smack in line with the 10k actually - 63.13% v 63.15%!

You're right about the rugby. Big let down today. Your comment about the shopping made me chuckle!

Had a quick stalk of Phil's Duathlon. I'll let him fill in the details, but a particularly eye catching final 5k, though not enough to 'do' the chef!
10/03/2013 at 10:23

Ooo looking forward to Phil's report then! Hopefully it involves some quality ale consumption too

21 undulating miles for me this morning:
5 @ 8:44
14 ish @ 7:59
1.6 @ 8:39

So all went to plan apart from a slight garmin cock up (I forgot to press start again after crossing a road), luckily its a route I've run before so know the relative distances pretty well and was able to work it out close enough for training purposes. Feeling pretty good, a little tired, but didnt sleep well as Magpie is away, all done on a cup of coffee so refueling nicely now.

10/03/2013 at 13:34

Big Bob – Stop over analysing it man you ran a PB and there is more to come! Well done BTW

Vellooo  - thanks for the Moray mention and I might pick your brains (and Kelly’s) on Edinburgh if I do it. Though it is full, I thought there were spots available, it turns out I was looking on the wrong page! It looks like there are plenty of numbers available for swaps so I should get a number if I want one.

Kelly – how is the T10 prep going? I noticed on bookface that you have entered a load of races, nice, you must be feeling fit(ter).

That sub 20 was nicely dug out Wardi! Well done

Curly – I agree with Ratzer, you do suit the long stuff. Excellent run today.

Not surprised you were knackered Ratzer, you have been putting the miles in recently. Be interested to hear about your sharpening and taper plans.

Rugby Yawnion wont get your pace going, ever Alehouse, I would have thought a man from your neck of the woods would realise that!

Where are Phil and prf with race reports?!!! If I can’t race, so I need to at least live vicariously through the racing exploits of others!

10/03/2013 at 13:53

Afternoon!

YD: I was brought up on Leicester Tigers! Used to be a season ticket holder when I was a kid: in fact had season tickets for both Tigers and Leicester City FC...one Saturday it wa rugby at 2.30, the next it was footie at 3! Proper times! And there was a proper cricket season, too, so your football hero could be a cricket hero as well! More importantly I am sorry to hear of you marathon dilemma: part of me says back off a little, keep the longest run in there though, and target an autumn marathon, with plenty of visits to minor races as well (subject to a pass out!). Or you do something like Edinburgh and then an autumn one as well (I can hear PRF as I write the latter...if you wait until the autumn and then you get a cold/the car breaks down or whatever then you will have wished you had done the first one!)

Back from a very cold Trafford 10k where I managed to walk for nearly two hours, although calf was a bit niggly. CB saw me and gave a shout: he was on pacing duties rather than racing, though: good to see you , CB...hopefully bump into you again before next March!

Nice long run, Curly.

BBB: am I right, you did a different parkrun yesterday! How did the courses compare?

PRF, PP, and anyone else: race reports??

10/03/2013 at 14:19

21 miles seems a bloody long way Curly. More chance on hell freezing over than me doing that kind of distance....actually, looking out of the window...

Bob, Great effort and dont listen to YD as he's just a bully. He once bullied me into drinking heavily when i'm almost a teetollar!  You'll soon be sub 20 i reckon. I went from not running to sub 40 in 9 months....unfortunately 18 months on i have actually got worse!

10/03/2013 at 14:41

Just a quick one - I haven't posted (or run) for a couple of weeks - work issues, then a wife with flu, then a daughter with flu, then me with flu! I was bedridden on Tuesday and Weds, managed to get into work on Thurs (mainly as I had 4 sets of reports due on Friday morning), but was still completely wiped on Friday. I decided that racing Trafford wasn't going to happen, so offered to pace a clubmate round. I set him the target of sub 50, and we got round in 48:49 which made him very happy and was a decent leg stretch for me after so long out.

Hopefully a good week this week and I'll see what I can do by Salford.

Nice to see you Alehouse. Thanks for the wave!

I'll read back later (sorry about marathon YD), but I'm in the middle of 100 head of year reports...

10/03/2013 at 15:33

Sounds a good day out CB, sorry about the lack of running, hope you get some in soon so you can do yourself justice as Salford.

Dash, you didn’t take any persuading, you’re just an old lush

Agreed, proper times Alehouse. Leeds RLFC season ticket for me growing up (before they became Rhino’s!) 3pm every Sunday unless they got the Televised BBC Challenge Cup game on a Saturday!   
Good work on the 2 hours of walking, sounds positive. As for the Marathon advice, starting to think you are right. Need to get healthy first, thinking about races is just getting ahead of myself.

10/03/2013 at 16:30
Great session, Curly. You're chewing up those miles at the moment!

YD - I know, I know.

Alehouse - Used to be a regular at Filbert Street myself as a kid, an occasional at Welford Road, and plenty of time at Grace Road during the summer too. We lived in Belton, Ashby and then Shepshed before moving to Notts. Lineker, Alan and Bobby Smith, Mark Wallington, Steve Lynex et al at City. Peter Wheeler, Dusty Hare, Paul Dodge and Les Cusworth for the Tigers. Nigel Briers, Phil De Freitas, Gordon Parson, Jonathon Agnew, Peter Willey and my favourite of the lot of them, the languid (the word might have been invented for him) David Gower for Leicestershire. Once saw Brian Davison take 39 off an over against Zimbabwe in a World Cup warm up in 1983. 6 x 6s off the first 6 balls, including a no-ball, and 3 from the final delivery of the over. Low key game, but as a 12 yo it was one of the most exciting things I'd seen!

And yes, different course yesterday - tactical switch, particularly with the rain late in the week, Rushcliffe (site of last week's 10k) is much quicker than Colwick. Probably slightly more pleasant setting too, and not much in it in terms of distance, so I think that may now be my regular haunt.

Sub-40 in 9 months. That's mighty impressive, Dash. That and a sub-20 for the 5k feel like a way off at the moment, but both are certainly medium term aims. Long term lower than that I hope. Did I pick it up right that you're just working your way back from injury? Is that why your progress was halted? Oh...and yes, it takes some serious arm twisting for me to get rat-arsed as well - cough.

CB - Sounds like a crappy couple of weeks for you. Good that you got back out there today, and were able to pace your mate round to a decent time though.

So, 8.8 miles for me this morning, including about 2.5 with a mate who prefers his mountain biking but whom I'm trying to get into the running as well - he's lost 4 stone over the last year. He wisely declined the drag round the rowing lake at Holme Pierrepont - 16mph north-easterly and sleet like needles was not pleasant! The 'feels like' -4C the Garmin recorded was optimistic! Averaged 9 minute pace plus over the course of the run, including some slower stuff with my pal and into that wind, then picked up to about 8:50 with it at my back and on the way home. Enjoyed it on the whole, the pace felt easy throughout, and unlike my previous longest run at 7.6 miles, I could quite easily have gone another couple of miles I reckon. Have identified a bit of an issue with my mechanics I think that is probably causing my occasional calf grumbles, but more on that later. Nice big buffet curry for lunch to refuel.
10/03/2013 at 18:07

Yes Bob, had an injury blighted year but the half-glass empty me (hic!) has an inkling that my current p.b's are as good as it gets. it just all seems a lot harder and we all have a ceiling of potential after all...but then again, I hope not!

As i'm fairly stupert (Norfolk for stupid) i have entered a 10k at the end of the month and will be flogging myself at parkrun this Saturday to test the water so to speak*

* the 'A' course has been flooded most of the winter!

10/03/2013 at 18:09

Yup, YD, I have been getting miles in.  For two weeks before heading out here the concentration was on the mid-week longs, as I knew my weekends were full.  Plenty of 18 milers in those two weeks.  This week I knew I wouldn't make the 18 milers, but saying that I hit 15 miles on the treadmill earlier today but there was no way I could restart the treadmill after the second stop (max 60 mins permitted then it goes to cooldown so you have to stop it and restart).  So these two weeks are about miles rather than long runs, and I have managed 67 in 7 days, with only 3 on one day and no running on another.  Suppose I could count some long walks as well - cross training, you know?  Legs aren't feeling so bad right now.  So tomorrow I'll try to get in a bit of shorter, sharper stuff in the morning before an easy in the evening.  Plan for this week is simply more miles.

General plan is bringing up the MP miles over the next two weeks, with only the occasional sharper session.  After that it's a week in the snow, so not quite sure how to deal with that other than I will be exercising about 6 hours a day.  Just not running.  Then it's three weeks to go, but because of the holiday I don't plan to taper for three weeks, I'll get in another week of mileage and MP before a two week taper in which I'll drop the miles quickly but keep some exclusively MP runs and go back to the sharper sessions with the club.

Note that because of the timetable it's really tough to fit in a down week, so I'm fitting in rest days instead.  I'm not recovering as well as I used to, but I expect that the long term effect of all these miles will be better recovery in the future, as long as I can stay wise and note the bad days that call for a rest.  Also, because of the timetable, I haven't raced!  I think that's a bad sign - it feels like one and that's self-fulfilling.  There haven't been any days where I've really taken my legs to the max and then had a couple of days recovery to build in the benefits.  Last year's PBs at 10M and Half gave me great confidence to pace the Full.  This year I don't truly know where I am.  3:05 prediction because of that - if I get it wrong I'll DNF.

Nice long again, Curly.  You should try fuelling your way around one session, just to test the difference.

CB, get those reports sorted!

10/03/2013 at 18:31
Ratzer wrote (see)

Yup, YD, I have been getting miles in.  For two weeks before heading out here the concentration was on the mid-week longs, as I knew my weekends were full.  Plenty of 18 milers in those two weeks.  This week I knew I wouldn't make the 18 milers, but saying that I hit 15 miles on the treadmill earlier today but there was no way I could restart the treadmill after the second stop (max 60 mins permitted then it goes to cooldown so you have to stop it and restart).  So these two weeks are about miles rather than long runs, and I have managed 67 in 7 days, with only 3 on one day and no running on another.  Suppose I could count some long walks as well - cross training, you know?  Legs aren't feeling so bad right now.  So tomorrow I'll try to get in a bit of shorter, sharper stuff in the morning before an easy in the evening.  Plan for this week is simply more miles.

General plan is bringing up the MP miles over the next two weeks, with only the occasional sharper session.  After that it's a week in the snow, so not quite sure how to deal with that other than I will be exercising about 6 hours a day.  Just not running.  Then it's three weeks to go, but because of the holiday I don't plan to taper for three weeks, I'll get in another week of mileage and MP before a two week taper in which I'll drop the miles quickly but keep some exclusively MP runs and go back to the sharper sessions with the club.

Note that because of the timetable it's really tough to fit in a down week, so I'm fitting in rest days instead.  I'm not recovering as well as I used to, but I expect that the long term effect of all these miles will be better recovery in the future, as long as I can stay wise and note the bad days that call for a rest.  Also, because of the timetable, I haven't raced!  I think that's a bad sign - it feels like one and that's self-fulfilling.  There haven't been any days where I've really taken my legs to the max and then had a couple of days recovery to build in the benefits.  Last year's PBs at 10M and Half gave me great confidence to pace the Full.  This year I don't truly know where I am.  3:05 prediction because of that - if I get it wrong I'll DNF.

Nice long again, Curly.  You should try fuelling your way around one session, just to test the difference.

CB, get those reports sorted!

Not worth the sacrifce for loss of fat burning adaptation at this stage. I will eat porridge on M day four-five hours before the race though because I have to travel and I get travel sick without food. I dont intend to use any gels or energy drinks though, but I do reserve the right to change my mind when out there!

Sounds like you have dealt with the disruption of work very well indeed during this build up - just demonstrates that when you think laterally there are ways around scheduling issues for marathon training that dont involve furman

10/03/2013 at 19:40
Ratzer wrote (see)

CB, get those reports sorted!

40 down, 60 to go. Averaging 15 mins per report, so I make that 15 hours over the next 4 evenings. No worries!

Edited: 10/03/2013 at 19:40
10/03/2013 at 19:51
DASH RIPROD wrote (see)

Yes Bob, had an injury blighted year but the half-glass empty me (hic!) has an inkling that my current p.b's are as good as it gets. it just all seems a lot harder and we all have a ceiling of potential after all...but then again, I hope not!

 

A couple of months of decent training will shake you out of that mentality i'm sure.

And yes we all have a ceiling of potential, but I doubt any non elites ever hit it!

 

10/03/2013 at 19:56

prf and Phil have gone and got all Justin Beiber on us……..

Bob calf issues can be expected when you first start out. Might be a good idea for you to get into the habit of stretching and doing a bit of core work now. Get some good habits while you are new to this game.
Nice work on the longest run.

Good to see how you get on at parkrun next week Dash!

Time is getting on Ratzer as you say. MP work is good, what about threshold (one hour pace ) runs? They are good for getting you to a peak IMO? I had planned on doing a couple closer to M day

Urgh CB

10/03/2013 at 20:48

Always something good thrown up by the weekend's parkrun - great to see Wardi hitting some consistency with the sub-20s and BBB with what I'm sure will be one of a string of PBs.

YD - Not really sure that to say about the mara situation at the moment, partly because you're being as philosophical about things as ever but also because it doesn't seem to be entirely resolved yet??  Fingers crossed anyway...

Curly - Nice run.  I think your Brighton cake is well and truly baked. Now what goes on top - was it icing or toothpaste?

 

10/03/2013 at 21:11

I'll start off my report on the National Duathlon champs by letting BBB down; a sub-16 5k at the end of 2 hours of racing would certainly be worth getting excited about but the Garmin measured it at 4.32km!  Starting at the beginning, however... we went off in four waves according to different age groups (which made knowing where you were in the race pretty impossible by the bike leg) and I lined up almost next to The Chef.   We weren't together very long; he edged off on the (genuine) 10k run about 5-6s/km quicker, and I settled about 10-12 places back (of two waves; 35-39 and 40-44).  This was dead flat but with some annoyingly muddy grass sections which my Saucony Fastwitch weren't very keen on. Fairly pleased to get back to transition in 34:46.

T1... The run had given me a false sense of body warmth, so I decided to try and get away without wearing gloves for the bike.  Quicker transition, innit.  BIG mistake. A third of the way through the 43k ride my fingers were already going numb and even changing gear was hard work. At some point I realised what national level duathlon competition means - enough bike bling to clear the national debt and quite a few stronger riders than me!  How many of the guys overtaking me might be 40+ it was difficult to tell at this stage... but by 43k I was almost beyond caring.  Felt f*cking dreadful - too much mental energy worrying about frostbite and not enough effort going into the legs.  (This is not to say I didn't overtake a fair few bling-mobiles from the first wave though!) Bike: 1:10:56

T2... Lo and behold, second transition was a little longer than it should have been because my fingers were completely numb and I struggled to get the running shoes back on.  Ugh! Eventually got going and felt predictably sluggish, but still managed to maintain my usual pattern in duathlons of having a relatively strong second run.  (Was actually a little slower pace than the first, but a much smaller drop-off than the average.)  Running fast after racing 43k on a bike really is a strange and horrible experience, but I guess that's half the art of the discipline.  I'm pretty sure I made up a few places I'd lost on the bike. "5k"  (haha!): 15:51.

Scores on the doors: Finish time: 2:04:40, 51st overall (/620), 11th in age category (/89).  The Chef was 11th, 3rd V40 and 7 minutes ahead of me.  (Winning time - i.e. national champion - 1:54:12; first female: 2:06:49... just for comparison, like )

Mixed feelings; I thought I might be a little higher up the rankings, but in hindsight the field was simply a LOT stronger than I was expecting.  It was the national champs, I guess!  I raced reasonably well, certainly the runs were well paced.  A few schoolboy errors in transition, and can't help thinking I could have done better on the bike, but it really was a bloody nightmare in that weather. I'm such a wuss!  (And I won't dwell on blaming tools, but a serious TT bike and a pointy hat probably are genuinely worth a good couple of minutes, if I was going to make a habit of this sort of thing.)  No one who finished after me ran quicker in either of the runs, which obviously tells you where my bias is, and what I can most improve upon.

Questions to ponder... have I done enough to qualify for the World champs?  (Not automatically, but still a good probability from what I understand of the system.)  Would I still want to do it anyway?  (Probably... does anyone want to sponsor my flights and accommodation? ) Am I going to make a habit of this duathlon business?  (Hmmm... it dawned on me that the major events will always be scheduled during the triathlon

Edited: 10/03/2013 at 21:18
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