The Middle Ground

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08/03/2013 at 22:07
YD - Disappointing news regarding the marathon, but like your positive outlook.

MrV - Wouldn't describe myself as naturally lean by any means! I am now finding it easy to control my weight after the change of lifestyle and diet however, but I'm a stone down on any previous adult weight.

Just the 21 again on Sunday, then Curly!

WJH - Cricket. That's a good question, though one I can't really answer at this stage. My cricket's been massively important to me for the last 15 years since I took the game up again at the age of 27 after a 10 year hiatus, but I've got similar problems to you with the ageing process. I loved being an integral part of a side that won promotion to the second tier of club cricket in the County, but the influx of quality players (including a pro as all the sides in that division have them) and the development of younger cricketers meant I didn't get long to adjust before one poor score and some dire fielding performances saw me lose my spot. I knew the writing was on the wall then at that club, so came back to my local club, and was a little disappointed not to get a shot in the 1st XI who were in the same division last season as they struggled and got relegated, but I never quite made the statement with my batting to demand a spot, and my lack of fitness meant I looked every bit the bloke in his 40s in the field. They'll be back in the division where I had a great deal of success at my previous club in 2010 this season, but I'm not convinced there's any appetite to look in my direction even though the club will be without last season's pro and there's a couple of batsmen who did get an opportunity last season who averaged about 2 and 9 respectively!

Like you I appreciate that I'm getting out of running exactly what I put into it which isn't always the case with cricket for all sorts of reasons. That's making me lean towards the running at this stage, though it could all change once the sun starts shining, I pull the whites on and get into the dressing room with the lads again. Much might depend on if I can force my way into the 1st XI as that would definitely motivate me to prove a thing or two to myself again, not to mention a few others at the club. 2nd XI cricket, or heaven forbid worse, and I'll probably just turn up on a Saturday for the craic, take what the season throws at me, and continue to concentrate on my running. Turning up to a winter net session or two would probably help though - the fact I haven't yet probably tells its own story!

I'm intending to follow your example in upping the mileage from next week by the way - 25, 27, 30 over the next 3 weeks all being well - hope I get the good results of it that you have! Good luck with your 20 tomorrow - that still sounds incredibly daunting to me...but then the 9 miler I've got planned for Sunday would have seemed lunacy only a few weeks ago.

Right, parkrun in the morning...hoping for big things. The irritating cough I've picked up today isn't filling me with confidence mind. Easy 2.5 miles with strides tonight made me feel a bit better, but just getting my excuse in early I suppose!
09/03/2013 at 10:10
So, to expand on the excuses. The irritating cough kept me awake until nearly 3am, the little 'un woke me up at 6.30am, the nose has turned into a snot factory overnight, and the legs felt like jelly this morning.

All in all then, I suppose I ought to be pleased with what should be a 40 second PB and hitting the sub-22 target at around 21:56 or 21:57 once the official results come through, but I can't help but feel frustrated and wonder what I might have done without the distractions!

Went off a bit too hard as well, with the first few hundred yards at under 6:00 mile pace, but looking on the bright side, it leaves something for next time I suppose!
09/03/2013 at 10:22

Nice work BBB sub 22 is a brilliant milestone - one of the best things about parkrun is you get a chance to have another go next week

I was thinking about a little parkrun this morning before marshalling this afternoon at a race but decided sleep was more the order of the day after a manic shift yesterday evening. Feel much better for a lie in but need to get out for a run asap and stop dallying!

09/03/2013 at 12:45

Bob.. I had to smile when I read your pace on setting off.  I always find with 5k races that so many runners set off at 1500m pace and fade badly!  This includes a couple of V60's at my local Parkrun who are old enough to know better!  I was 26th at 1k today and finished 15th!  As Curly says the great thing about Parkrun is you can simply turn up to the next one if you have a bad run, the weather is crap etc.  Nice one on breaking 22 mins, once you have done a few 5k's you will find the right pace easier to settle into and the times will start to drop.

Not the best morning at York Racecourse Parkrun, damp, cold, and windy on the stand side!  I battled through to 4k in 15:56 with the aforementioned wind threatening to put the dampers on my sub 20 attempt.  My k pace gradually dropped to 4:29 into the wind (3:59 needed!) so a sustained mega effort with gurning to match PP brought me back to a fighting chance on the last corner.  Crossed the line in 19:54 so a happy bunny.

Y D.. sorry to hear you are struggling.  Marathon training does seem to dig out imbalances, old injuries etc.  Best of luck with whatever you decide, I would recommend a Polish marathon, it is so cheap over there it would probably be more economical than doing an English one!

Alehouse.. shame your dodgy calf has swopped sides.  Hope you make progress on all fronts.

Curly.. hope the long run goes well, and that your weather is better than up here for it!

Edited: 09/03/2013 at 12:51
09/03/2013 at 13:15

YD, I took your concern to heart.  After about three hours walking I did run, but at about 8'45" pace, and stopped when it got to be too much after 8 miles, which did make yesterday just under a 15 mile double.  Nothing seemed wrong except an expected tiredness in the legs, however I've taken today off to go sightseeing (about 4 hours walking which was enough for me) and drinking (if I can find a decent pub showing the rugby).

BBB, a reasonable Bubka'ing of the 22 there.  Plenty more in reserve for the next PB.  How did the other guy go?

Nice shift against the elements, Wardi.

Curly, you do enjoy running long, don't you?  Nice variety of paces you have going there though.  Anyone would think you were being set sessions by someone who had a strong belief in multipace training.

09/03/2013 at 13:45
Curly, Wardi, Ratzer - thanks.

Jealous of that lie in, Curly!

Wardi - Congrats on your sub-20 too - great effort in those conditions! And yes, that over eager start certainly hurt me in the 2nd mile. Splits of 6:59 and 7:08 over the first 2 miles tell a story. Recovered enough to dig out a 6:56 third mile, and 5:40 pace over the closing sprint. Got dipped on the line by a guy I'd been battling with for most of the second half of the race, and I think that helped us both keep pushing, but somehow he ended up with 21:54 versus my 21:57 on the official times so not quite sure how that works, but never mind!

Ratzer - the guy in Brum could only churn out a 22:06 today, so I've claimed that particular friendly challenge. Aye, Bubka'ing indeed, though not intentionally, was really pushing for 21:45 today! Enjoy the sightseeing and the rugby - looking forward to the latter myself - is it Moscow you're holed up in at the moment? Looked freezing over there on the coverage of Newcastle's Euro game in midweek!
09/03/2013 at 20:43

LOL to Ratzer Hope you found a pub!

Great to get a sub 20 Wardi given the tough condifitions, we're not due anything too bad just yet.

Alehouse any news on the good now bad calf?

I hear via the medium of fb that PRF had a good run at Hull parkrun today.

Got my 6 in, sturggling to keep my pace down at the moment though, which is a good problem to have of course, so toppped off with 17 miles cycling to get to the race and back which was nice. Pitiful pace though - nothing like a sport not your own to teach you your own inadequcies

Edited: 09/03/2013 at 20:44
09/03/2013 at 21:19

Curly: trying to keep you r pace down is, indeed, a great problem to have! I wish! My "good" (now bad) calf has improved a little, but I want to get some decent volume/pace walks in before I consider running. Frustrating!

CB: I may well now go to Trafford, and will be wearing a "Worsley Woods Trail Race" pink hat! (As it is cold I dare say I will be wearing quite a lot of other stuff as well! Black Ronhill Goretex top, Asics shoes and probably 10 pairs of bottoms!)

Wardi: Another sub-20 represents decent progress, given the conditions. Well done!

BBB: A PB is a PB is a PB! What was the WAVA: is it in line with the 10k?

And I read through the medium of the parkrun site that PRF had a decent run at Hull today!

Only sport here today was watching two rugby matches, and neither were exciting enough to get the pulse racing. Plus walking round the shops and supermarkets: at least that was pain free, wallet apart!

09/03/2013 at 22:41
Alehouse - Yes, you're right. A 40 second PB is not to be sniffed at. As has already been pointed out this week, I should try not to over think these things, and thus put such demanding expectations on my own shoulders. It's pushing me along though. 25:35 was my first parkrun time back in December, so 3:38 worth of improvement in 3 months including a fortnight's illness with no running. WAVA was smack in line with the 10k actually - 63.13% v 63.15%!

You're right about the rugby. Big let down today. Your comment about the shopping made me chuckle!

Had a quick stalk of Phil's Duathlon. I'll let him fill in the details, but a particularly eye catching final 5k, though not enough to 'do' the chef!
10/03/2013 at 10:23

Ooo looking forward to Phil's report then! Hopefully it involves some quality ale consumption too

21 undulating miles for me this morning:
5 @ 8:44
14 ish @ 7:59
1.6 @ 8:39

So all went to plan apart from a slight garmin cock up (I forgot to press start again after crossing a road), luckily its a route I've run before so know the relative distances pretty well and was able to work it out close enough for training purposes. Feeling pretty good, a little tired, but didnt sleep well as Magpie is away, all done on a cup of coffee so refueling nicely now.

10/03/2013 at 13:34

Big Bob – Stop over analysing it man you ran a PB and there is more to come! Well done BTW

Vellooo  - thanks for the Moray mention and I might pick your brains (and Kelly’s) on Edinburgh if I do it. Though it is full, I thought there were spots available, it turns out I was looking on the wrong page! It looks like there are plenty of numbers available for swaps so I should get a number if I want one.

Kelly – how is the T10 prep going? I noticed on bookface that you have entered a load of races, nice, you must be feeling fit(ter).

That sub 20 was nicely dug out Wardi! Well done

Curly – I agree with Ratzer, you do suit the long stuff. Excellent run today.

Not surprised you were knackered Ratzer, you have been putting the miles in recently. Be interested to hear about your sharpening and taper plans.

Rugby Yawnion wont get your pace going, ever Alehouse, I would have thought a man from your neck of the woods would realise that!

Where are Phil and prf with race reports?!!! If I can’t race, so I need to at least live vicariously through the racing exploits of others!

10/03/2013 at 13:53

Afternoon!

YD: I was brought up on Leicester Tigers! Used to be a season ticket holder when I was a kid: in fact had season tickets for both Tigers and Leicester City FC...one Saturday it wa rugby at 2.30, the next it was footie at 3! Proper times! And there was a proper cricket season, too, so your football hero could be a cricket hero as well! More importantly I am sorry to hear of you marathon dilemma: part of me says back off a little, keep the longest run in there though, and target an autumn marathon, with plenty of visits to minor races as well (subject to a pass out!). Or you do something like Edinburgh and then an autumn one as well (I can hear PRF as I write the latter...if you wait until the autumn and then you get a cold/the car breaks down or whatever then you will have wished you had done the first one!)

Back from a very cold Trafford 10k where I managed to walk for nearly two hours, although calf was a bit niggly. CB saw me and gave a shout: he was on pacing duties rather than racing, though: good to see you , CB...hopefully bump into you again before next March!

Nice long run, Curly.

BBB: am I right, you did a different parkrun yesterday! How did the courses compare?

PRF, PP, and anyone else: race reports??

10/03/2013 at 14:19

21 miles seems a bloody long way Curly. More chance on hell freezing over than me doing that kind of distance....actually, looking out of the window...

Bob, Great effort and dont listen to YD as he's just a bully. He once bullied me into drinking heavily when i'm almost a teetollar!  You'll soon be sub 20 i reckon. I went from not running to sub 40 in 9 months....unfortunately 18 months on i have actually got worse!

10/03/2013 at 14:41

Just a quick one - I haven't posted (or run) for a couple of weeks - work issues, then a wife with flu, then a daughter with flu, then me with flu! I was bedridden on Tuesday and Weds, managed to get into work on Thurs (mainly as I had 4 sets of reports due on Friday morning), but was still completely wiped on Friday. I decided that racing Trafford wasn't going to happen, so offered to pace a clubmate round. I set him the target of sub 50, and we got round in 48:49 which made him very happy and was a decent leg stretch for me after so long out.

Hopefully a good week this week and I'll see what I can do by Salford.

Nice to see you Alehouse. Thanks for the wave!

I'll read back later (sorry about marathon YD), but I'm in the middle of 100 head of year reports...

10/03/2013 at 15:33

Sounds a good day out CB, sorry about the lack of running, hope you get some in soon so you can do yourself justice as Salford.

Dash, you didn’t take any persuading, you’re just an old lush

Agreed, proper times Alehouse. Leeds RLFC season ticket for me growing up (before they became Rhino’s!) 3pm every Sunday unless they got the Televised BBC Challenge Cup game on a Saturday!   
Good work on the 2 hours of walking, sounds positive. As for the Marathon advice, starting to think you are right. Need to get healthy first, thinking about races is just getting ahead of myself.

10/03/2013 at 16:30
Great session, Curly. You're chewing up those miles at the moment!

YD - I know, I know.

Alehouse - Used to be a regular at Filbert Street myself as a kid, an occasional at Welford Road, and plenty of time at Grace Road during the summer too. We lived in Belton, Ashby and then Shepshed before moving to Notts. Lineker, Alan and Bobby Smith, Mark Wallington, Steve Lynex et al at City. Peter Wheeler, Dusty Hare, Paul Dodge and Les Cusworth for the Tigers. Nigel Briers, Phil De Freitas, Gordon Parson, Jonathon Agnew, Peter Willey and my favourite of the lot of them, the languid (the word might have been invented for him) David Gower for Leicestershire. Once saw Brian Davison take 39 off an over against Zimbabwe in a World Cup warm up in 1983. 6 x 6s off the first 6 balls, including a no-ball, and 3 from the final delivery of the over. Low key game, but as a 12 yo it was one of the most exciting things I'd seen!

And yes, different course yesterday - tactical switch, particularly with the rain late in the week, Rushcliffe (site of last week's 10k) is much quicker than Colwick. Probably slightly more pleasant setting too, and not much in it in terms of distance, so I think that may now be my regular haunt.

Sub-40 in 9 months. That's mighty impressive, Dash. That and a sub-20 for the 5k feel like a way off at the moment, but both are certainly medium term aims. Long term lower than that I hope. Did I pick it up right that you're just working your way back from injury? Is that why your progress was halted? Oh...and yes, it takes some serious arm twisting for me to get rat-arsed as well - cough.

CB - Sounds like a crappy couple of weeks for you. Good that you got back out there today, and were able to pace your mate round to a decent time though.

So, 8.8 miles for me this morning, including about 2.5 with a mate who prefers his mountain biking but whom I'm trying to get into the running as well - he's lost 4 stone over the last year. He wisely declined the drag round the rowing lake at Holme Pierrepont - 16mph north-easterly and sleet like needles was not pleasant! The 'feels like' -4C the Garmin recorded was optimistic! Averaged 9 minute pace plus over the course of the run, including some slower stuff with my pal and into that wind, then picked up to about 8:50 with it at my back and on the way home. Enjoyed it on the whole, the pace felt easy throughout, and unlike my previous longest run at 7.6 miles, I could quite easily have gone another couple of miles I reckon. Have identified a bit of an issue with my mechanics I think that is probably causing my occasional calf grumbles, but more on that later. Nice big buffet curry for lunch to refuel.
10/03/2013 at 18:07

Yes Bob, had an injury blighted year but the half-glass empty me (hic!) has an inkling that my current p.b's are as good as it gets. it just all seems a lot harder and we all have a ceiling of potential after all...but then again, I hope not!

As i'm fairly stupert (Norfolk for stupid) i have entered a 10k at the end of the month and will be flogging myself at parkrun this Saturday to test the water so to speak*

* the 'A' course has been flooded most of the winter!

10/03/2013 at 18:09

Yup, YD, I have been getting miles in.  For two weeks before heading out here the concentration was on the mid-week longs, as I knew my weekends were full.  Plenty of 18 milers in those two weeks.  This week I knew I wouldn't make the 18 milers, but saying that I hit 15 miles on the treadmill earlier today but there was no way I could restart the treadmill after the second stop (max 60 mins permitted then it goes to cooldown so you have to stop it and restart).  So these two weeks are about miles rather than long runs, and I have managed 67 in 7 days, with only 3 on one day and no running on another.  Suppose I could count some long walks as well - cross training, you know?  Legs aren't feeling so bad right now.  So tomorrow I'll try to get in a bit of shorter, sharper stuff in the morning before an easy in the evening.  Plan for this week is simply more miles.

General plan is bringing up the MP miles over the next two weeks, with only the occasional sharper session.  After that it's a week in the snow, so not quite sure how to deal with that other than I will be exercising about 6 hours a day.  Just not running.  Then it's three weeks to go, but because of the holiday I don't plan to taper for three weeks, I'll get in another week of mileage and MP before a two week taper in which I'll drop the miles quickly but keep some exclusively MP runs and go back to the sharper sessions with the club.

Note that because of the timetable it's really tough to fit in a down week, so I'm fitting in rest days instead.  I'm not recovering as well as I used to, but I expect that the long term effect of all these miles will be better recovery in the future, as long as I can stay wise and note the bad days that call for a rest.  Also, because of the timetable, I haven't raced!  I think that's a bad sign - it feels like one and that's self-fulfilling.  There haven't been any days where I've really taken my legs to the max and then had a couple of days recovery to build in the benefits.  Last year's PBs at 10M and Half gave me great confidence to pace the Full.  This year I don't truly know where I am.  3:05 prediction because of that - if I get it wrong I'll DNF.

Nice long again, Curly.  You should try fuelling your way around one session, just to test the difference.

CB, get those reports sorted!

10/03/2013 at 18:31
Ratzer wrote (see)

Yup, YD, I have been getting miles in.  For two weeks before heading out here the concentration was on the mid-week longs, as I knew my weekends were full.  Plenty of 18 milers in those two weeks.  This week I knew I wouldn't make the 18 milers, but saying that I hit 15 miles on the treadmill earlier today but there was no way I could restart the treadmill after the second stop (max 60 mins permitted then it goes to cooldown so you have to stop it and restart).  So these two weeks are about miles rather than long runs, and I have managed 67 in 7 days, with only 3 on one day and no running on another.  Suppose I could count some long walks as well - cross training, you know?  Legs aren't feeling so bad right now.  So tomorrow I'll try to get in a bit of shorter, sharper stuff in the morning before an easy in the evening.  Plan for this week is simply more miles.

General plan is bringing up the MP miles over the next two weeks, with only the occasional sharper session.  After that it's a week in the snow, so not quite sure how to deal with that other than I will be exercising about 6 hours a day.  Just not running.  Then it's three weeks to go, but because of the holiday I don't plan to taper for three weeks, I'll get in another week of mileage and MP before a two week taper in which I'll drop the miles quickly but keep some exclusively MP runs and go back to the sharper sessions with the club.

Note that because of the timetable it's really tough to fit in a down week, so I'm fitting in rest days instead.  I'm not recovering as well as I used to, but I expect that the long term effect of all these miles will be better recovery in the future, as long as I can stay wise and note the bad days that call for a rest.  Also, because of the timetable, I haven't raced!  I think that's a bad sign - it feels like one and that's self-fulfilling.  There haven't been any days where I've really taken my legs to the max and then had a couple of days recovery to build in the benefits.  Last year's PBs at 10M and Half gave me great confidence to pace the Full.  This year I don't truly know where I am.  3:05 prediction because of that - if I get it wrong I'll DNF.

Nice long again, Curly.  You should try fuelling your way around one session, just to test the difference.

CB, get those reports sorted!

Not worth the sacrifce for loss of fat burning adaptation at this stage. I will eat porridge on M day four-five hours before the race though because I have to travel and I get travel sick without food. I dont intend to use any gels or energy drinks though, but I do reserve the right to change my mind when out there!

Sounds like you have dealt with the disruption of work very well indeed during this build up - just demonstrates that when you think laterally there are ways around scheduling issues for marathon training that dont involve furman

10/03/2013 at 19:40
Ratzer wrote (see)

CB, get those reports sorted!

40 down, 60 to go. Averaging 15 mins per report, so I make that 15 hours over the next 4 evenings. No worries!

Edited: 10/03/2013 at 19:40
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