The Middle Ground

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03/04/2013 at 17:19

Right was going to read back this morning on my day off, but got a call to say get your ass into work as you put down to work an xtra shift today Whoops!

Anyway, first off brilliant time from Duck so pleased you've cracked it finally! Well done

Dash nice return to 10k not as bad as you thought eh

iower well done on the sub 20, blimey that seemed to happen fast.

WJH awesome running, I still think you are selling your marathon a little short - you have far more pace than me, yes perhaps a little less endurance (but not much). If you can jump in our pen on race day, I'd wonder about sticking with me and Magpie for a few miles to see how it goes?

Ratzer sorry about the deferral but if it hasnt gone right after last year's fab debut then it doesnt seem worth the recovery period imo. Sensible as ever from you.

YD the recovery gym work sounds good. I like Alex Lester (I think) oddcasts from BBC radio 2 - very funny, but dont think they are very long.

Phil lol to pacing course diversion duties! We trained on Old Deer Park last night and its still flooded so good work. Nice 1k splits too, will use you next time I need a metronome!

PRF excellent negative splits gives BBB a hint of how to do it Good to see you coming into form at the right time as expected.

BBB I think your race sounds like a tough course and tough weather and you gain loads of fitness from that which you can put into your next race.

Hope you are enjoying the break Mr V sounds like your body is asking for it after the tough week away training.

Stevie G . wrote (see)

anyone clock the PO10 change in that "parkrun" is now a category in the results?

And to think I drove for an hour to find one to count as 5k

We've travelled to Dulwich 4 times now. I am very cross. They could have changed it from now, reptrospective changes is just rewriting history. Its so unfair, I shall now add physic premonitions to my list of running abilities I need to develop when I choose races in future.

My maidenhead time is in though of course, even though its wrong and the organisers have admitted they had problems with the chip timing. FFS.

Edited: 03/04/2013 at 17:20
03/04/2013 at 18:05

Don't worry Curly, it's certified as 5k so still counts. But would just be nice to see it on the 5k section wouldn't it!

The idea of lumping the certified ones in with the NADS is just plain foolish though.


What exactly happened with Maidenhead? Are you jinxing that race?

It's kind of disspiriting when they do these changes/screw it up isn't it. Especially in a distance you don't race often.

I can only remember one chip screw up in years. Wokingham half of 3 years ago. Long story short they needed to take 7secs off the chip, but instead added another 7...

My 1:19:13 was increased to 1:19:20 and I can still remember being gutted at that. Once i'd got over it, I saw they'd added another 7 on to suddenly give 1:19:27!!

Can  now


Edited: 03/04/2013 at 18:13
03/04/2013 at 18:30

Thats what Magpie said

Here's what the emil they sent said:
 We are aware of some discrepancies in chip time recording which we think is due to some unexplained electrical interference at the Start Line.  If you think your chip time does need adjusting please contact me at  and we shall look into it. We shall aim to publish revised chip-time results in a few days.

I was given 1:12:10, I ran 1:13:27 or 28 - it doesnt matter as its a training run, but it just pisses me off that wrong results go into Po10 but correct ones are suddenly worth less.

The parkrun no longer counts as certified to anyone except ourselves... it counts as a parkrun now.

03/04/2013 at 18:41

that is quite some difference, would have been pretty annoying if you were racing it hard.Sounds like they're willing to fix it, which good clubs do.

We know the truth with Dulwich, but i'm sure like me you'll be looking for a chance to wipe it from the record books.

After that I'll probably have less inclination to do a parkrun than I had before (which was minimal anyway)

Maybe they should remove Parkruns from PO10 altogether as it is a "racing" website after all. And they don't half clutter your account up if you do a lot.

03/04/2013 at 19:51

iower, wouldn't suggest a long run of 12M if your weekly mileage is ~25. Makes for quite an unbalanced week. What's your weekly schedule like right now?

Curly, I agree with changing it from now, i.e. no retrospective changing. The bottom line is you know the course is an accurate 5k even if PO10 denies it so you know your time is legitimate. I know that it's frustrating meaning you won't get a 5k time though. 

Some good news and bad news. I have to cover for someone on Friday so won't get to run the final 3k of the season (I'm comfortably in second, third would have to run 8'xx to overtake me so no worries there). The good news is that I've managed to swap a day off, so I'll be able to run the first Petrofac League meet on Sunday 14th.

I've put myself down for the 100m and the 400m. There's a 1500 (no 800) which is 70 minutes before the 400, but I'd rather get a fresh 400 in and the 100 will just be for speed endurance training & honestly I'm curious to see what I can run for 100m (the 100 is 2 hours before). 

Also tried the Adidas Boost today. It fits like an Adidas (i.e. narrow and pretty crap) but feels good on the sole. Not sure if it's boost technology is as good as they say it is yet but I'll give them a proper test-drive on Friday.

Edited: 03/04/2013 at 20:06
03/04/2013 at 20:31

Some excellent running as ever from so many of you! 

The parkrun thing does annoy me as it's the only 5k that I've done, but there's a proper Scottish Athletics Grand Prix 5k coming up soon so I should do that, if I don't get too intimidated by the fast women in their running knickers.

I was wondering if any of you could give me some advice? I'm entered into a marathon in Nov but I want to do some solid prep work so that the marathon training doesn't kill me. At the moment I'm running 30-40miles a week, I don't run longer than 15miles. The first and only time I ran a marathon was in 2010, suffered no injuries but I was a lot slower then and wasn't racing on a regular basis.

03/04/2013 at 20:32
Unusually for a Duck you must be lacking webbed feet.
Being from Norfolk, I, on the other hand (or foot) do not as Adidas fit me perfectly!
03/04/2013 at 20:33

BBB - that's exactly it, "over-exuberant inner pup" hits the nail on the head!

Curly - Sorry! I did want the suspense to build for a couple of weeks and wasn't expecting anything that quick to be honest. I just got running with someone I know is regularly under 19:30 and clung on for as long as possible! I'd just like to make it official this week.

Duck - Wasn't too clear, no regular 12 milers for me just yet, I'll build up to that gradually while increasing other runs at the same time. Nothing too soon though, I'm thinking over the course of 6 or so weeks.

How much would you suggest as a %age of total mileage for the weekly long run? I'll be running local league races between 5 miles up to 10 miles, plus the odd parkrun/5k series races. I don't think I'll expect too much from the half marathons on the calendar hence planning long runs between 12 and 14 miles eventually. What ratio of easy miles to quality would be expected? I think I need to work on endurance more than speed so was planning quite a lot of easy miles.

03/04/2013 at 22:08

vellooo - take my advice with a pinch of salt as I have had to pull out of my Marathon; but I would spend a bit of time building your long runs up to 20 miles before you start Marathon training proper as well as slowly increasing the length of a mid week run.

Lets say for arguments sake that your typical long run is in the 12-15miles bracket. For the next few months make one long run per month longer still. Start with a slow 17, then increase the length each month but stop at 20 miles. I did this last year because I wanted to have a couple of 20s under my belt before I started Marathon training proper, it gave me confidence that I could do them and recover without blowing the next week. Same with the mid week medium long run, get this up to 12 - 13 miles mark and then when you want to increase this again during Marathon training proper it won't be such a big leap.

Another thing, I think following something like a P&D schedule might have been a better idea for me this year as a first timer. That way I could concentrate on looking after myself and not worrying about what session I am doing next. From what I have seen, they seem to be very well balanced schedules with all the right ingredients, you can always adjust as you go along if certain parts don't suit you. Some say they are light on the long run’s, with that I might be tempted to boost a couple of the long run’s, but all in all I think they look pretty good.

Edited: 03/04/2013 at 22:11
03/04/2013 at 22:45

Thanks YD, building up to 20 sounds like a good plan and upping volume too. I'll take a look at the P&D schedules not seen them before. I know there's no guarantees regarding injury (a running clubmate who was going for a commonwealth qualifying time in the marathon and has a dedicated coach got really badly injured 2 weeks before the first attempt and couldn't run at all..)

04/04/2013 at 12:52

Vellooo – this link shows the P&D 18 week 50 to 70 miles per week schedule. It gives you an idea what the schedules are like. They have 12 weeks, 18 weeks and 24 week schedules. Also they have different mileages, up to 55 miles and a 55 – 70, + others.

FWIW assuming I was in decent shape leading up to starting a schedule I would go for a 12 week schedule, however some might prefer a longer build up and go for 18 weeks. 24 weeks is too long IMO.

Theres nothing magical about them, like all decent Marathon training it's about running decent mileage. The main thing is most weeks should contain a good long run, a supportive medium long run and some kind of harder prolonged tempo effort, be that a MP run or threshold.  

Edited: 04/04/2013 at 12:53
04/04/2013 at 16:38

Cheers YD! Lots of useful info on there, ordered the book too. 

04/04/2013 at 21:19

Another decent night in the gym tonight.
11.22km or 6.97miles (aiming for 7 miles but got my sums wrong mid run ) in 51.09 + 10 mins on the xtrainer and some core work.
Ran progressively starting at 11kph moving up to 14kph and staying there for 10 mins before going up to 15kph over the last 11 mins. Average pace of 7.20/mi, felt tough, turns out my fitness has done a swanny!

04/04/2013 at 22:02

YD - Good effort.  I find it difficult to compare PE directly with outdoors running because I think you somehow can't escape being more switched in to your running on the treddy, so there is that to it.

vellooo - I back up YD's advice on mara training, especially re: getting the build-up duration right.  Stick to a rigid schedule for too long and it'll be mentally draining, but it needs to be long enough to get you proper marathon-shaped, so I think 18 weeks is about right. Study the plans and do some "pre-marathon training training" by way of getting into the right pattern of long runs, mid-week longer runs, and gearing intervals/tempo runs towards marathon-specific intensities (e.g. getting tempo runs longer, in preparation for longer "MP" efforts).

We did 5 x 1M this evening, with the same 30s recovery as recent sessions, but it felt harder than "threshold" - I blame others stubbornly sticking to pace in the face of windy conditions.    Anyway, I think they were all 5:20 with a cheeky 5:19 on the end (but I was having timing issues, so I might be lying by a second either way.)  Rest day tomorrow.  Tapertapertaper...

Edited: 04/04/2013 at 22:03
04/04/2013 at 22:30

Slight change of plan to the run tonight. After looking at the route again and seeing the sideways snow out the window I decided a steady pace as opposed to 10k pace would be more suitable. 

Had a nice easy run to the club meet around a mile away from home. Around half a mile in to the main run I knew even the reduced pace wasn't going to happen on the off road route, so ran entirely on feel and tried to keep it what i'd imagine tempo pace would have felt like on the road. Wasn't too far off pace and hopefully the uneven ground has been a bit kinder to the legs and helped build strength a bit. As soon as I hit the road the pace came right down and the last mile was 7:05 which is steady state pace in accordance with my mcmillan training paces so fairly happy with the run. Tidy push to the finish for the last few 100m's nipping under 5m/m which was nice Legs feel fine afterwards too so should still be fairly fresh for parkrun saturday.

After this week i'll probably avoid parkruns and concentrate on training for my next couple of races next month. 

Edited: 04/04/2013 at 22:33
05/04/2013 at 08:27

"Sunny Intervals" forecast for tomorrow. See, even the weather sounds speedy!

Edited: 05/04/2013 at 08:28
06/04/2013 at 10:04

Still awaiting official confirmation obviously, but the Garmin read a 35 second PB as I crossed the line at parkrun this morning.

Should be about 21:22 I reckon.

That's now 3:14 off from 24:36 at the turn of the year, and 4:13 off from my debut 4 months ago.

Suspect the next 4 minutes might take a little longer mind......
06/04/2013 at 10:50
Good work Bob, nice way to set up the weekend!

I did my first 5k in 19.07 18 months ago and I've lopped a massive 24 seconds since!
06/04/2013 at 10:51
Lopped off!
06/04/2013 at 10:55

Well done Bob, great result! I think it was definitely a day for it today. Nice and cool, small amount of breeze but nothing serious. Another 20 seconds off for me today, might have been more had I started the push to the finish sooner, down to 19:06 now (EDIT: 19:09 according to parkrun). Bit disappointed to miss sub-19 but pleased all the same, and it'll be official this time as I remembered my barcode, hooray! I'll keep 19 minutes a soft target for the near future 

What am I supposed to base my training on now though? This performance? Or my recent 10k/10m race times that aren't in line with this at all anymore! I'm confused! 

Edited: 06/04/2013 at 10:58
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