The Middle Ground

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03/04/2013 at 19:51

iower, wouldn't suggest a long run of 12M if your weekly mileage is ~25. Makes for quite an unbalanced week. What's your weekly schedule like right now?

Curly, I agree with changing it from now, i.e. no retrospective changing. The bottom line is you know the course is an accurate 5k even if PO10 denies it so you know your time is legitimate. I know that it's frustrating meaning you won't get a 5k time though. 

Some good news and bad news. I have to cover for someone on Friday so won't get to run the final 3k of the season (I'm comfortably in second, third would have to run 8'xx to overtake me so no worries there). The good news is that I've managed to swap a day off, so I'll be able to run the first Petrofac League meet on Sunday 14th.

I've put myself down for the 100m and the 400m. There's a 1500 (no 800) which is 70 minutes before the 400, but I'd rather get a fresh 400 in and the 100 will just be for speed endurance training & honestly I'm curious to see what I can run for 100m (the 100 is 2 hours before). 

Also tried the Adidas Boost today. It fits like an Adidas (i.e. narrow and pretty crap) but feels good on the sole. Not sure if it's boost technology is as good as they say it is yet but I'll give them a proper test-drive on Friday.

Edited: 03/04/2013 at 20:06
03/04/2013 at 20:31

Some excellent running as ever from so many of you! 

The parkrun thing does annoy me as it's the only 5k that I've done, but there's a proper Scottish Athletics Grand Prix 5k coming up soon so I should do that, if I don't get too intimidated by the fast women in their running knickers.

I was wondering if any of you could give me some advice? I'm entered into a marathon in Nov but I want to do some solid prep work so that the marathon training doesn't kill me. At the moment I'm running 30-40miles a week, I don't run longer than 15miles. The first and only time I ran a marathon was in 2010, suffered no injuries but I was a lot slower then and wasn't racing on a regular basis.

03/04/2013 at 20:32
Unusually for a Duck you must be lacking webbed feet.
Being from Norfolk, I, on the other hand (or foot) do not as Adidas fit me perfectly!
03/04/2013 at 20:33

BBB - that's exactly it, "over-exuberant inner pup" hits the nail on the head!

Curly - Sorry! I did want the suspense to build for a couple of weeks and wasn't expecting anything that quick to be honest. I just got running with someone I know is regularly under 19:30 and clung on for as long as possible! I'd just like to make it official this week.

Duck - Wasn't too clear, no regular 12 milers for me just yet, I'll build up to that gradually while increasing other runs at the same time. Nothing too soon though, I'm thinking over the course of 6 or so weeks.

How much would you suggest as a %age of total mileage for the weekly long run? I'll be running local league races between 5 miles up to 10 miles, plus the odd parkrun/5k series races. I don't think I'll expect too much from the half marathons on the calendar hence planning long runs between 12 and 14 miles eventually. What ratio of easy miles to quality would be expected? I think I need to work on endurance more than speed so was planning quite a lot of easy miles.

03/04/2013 at 22:08

vellooo - take my advice with a pinch of salt as I have had to pull out of my Marathon; but I would spend a bit of time building your long runs up to 20 miles before you start Marathon training proper as well as slowly increasing the length of a mid week run.

Lets say for arguments sake that your typical long run is in the 12-15miles bracket. For the next few months make one long run per month longer still. Start with a slow 17, then increase the length each month but stop at 20 miles. I did this last year because I wanted to have a couple of 20s under my belt before I started Marathon training proper, it gave me confidence that I could do them and recover without blowing the next week. Same with the mid week medium long run, get this up to 12 - 13 miles mark and then when you want to increase this again during Marathon training proper it won't be such a big leap.

Another thing, I think following something like a P&D schedule might have been a better idea for me this year as a first timer. That way I could concentrate on looking after myself and not worrying about what session I am doing next. From what I have seen, they seem to be very well balanced schedules with all the right ingredients, you can always adjust as you go along if certain parts don't suit you. Some say they are light on the long run’s, with that I might be tempted to boost a couple of the long run’s, but all in all I think they look pretty good.

Edited: 03/04/2013 at 22:11
03/04/2013 at 22:45

Thanks YD, building up to 20 sounds like a good plan and upping volume too. I'll take a look at the P&D schedules not seen them before. I know there's no guarantees regarding injury (a running clubmate who was going for a commonwealth qualifying time in the marathon and has a dedicated coach got really badly injured 2 weeks before the first attempt and couldn't run at all..)

04/04/2013 at 12:52

Vellooo – this link shows the P&D 18 week 50 to 70 miles per week schedule. It gives you an idea what the schedules are like. They have 12 weeks, 18 weeks and 24 week schedules. Also they have different mileages, up to 55 miles and a 55 – 70, + others.

FWIW assuming I was in decent shape leading up to starting a schedule I would go for a 12 week schedule, however some might prefer a longer build up and go for 18 weeks. 24 weeks is too long IMO.

Theres nothing magical about them, like all decent Marathon training it's about running decent mileage. The main thing is most weeks should contain a good long run, a supportive medium long run and some kind of harder prolonged tempo effort, be that a MP run or threshold.  

Edited: 04/04/2013 at 12:53
04/04/2013 at 16:38

Cheers YD! Lots of useful info on there, ordered the book too. 

04/04/2013 at 21:19

Another decent night in the gym tonight.
11.22km or 6.97miles (aiming for 7 miles but got my sums wrong mid run ) in 51.09 + 10 mins on the xtrainer and some core work.
Ran progressively starting at 11kph moving up to 14kph and staying there for 10 mins before going up to 15kph over the last 11 mins. Average pace of 7.20/mi, felt tough, turns out my fitness has done a swanny!

04/04/2013 at 22:02

YD - Good effort.  I find it difficult to compare PE directly with outdoors running because I think you somehow can't escape being more switched in to your running on the treddy, so there is that to it.

vellooo - I back up YD's advice on mara training, especially re: getting the build-up duration right.  Stick to a rigid schedule for too long and it'll be mentally draining, but it needs to be long enough to get you proper marathon-shaped, so I think 18 weeks is about right. Study the plans and do some "pre-marathon training training" by way of getting into the right pattern of long runs, mid-week longer runs, and gearing intervals/tempo runs towards marathon-specific intensities (e.g. getting tempo runs longer, in preparation for longer "MP" efforts).

We did 5 x 1M this evening, with the same 30s recovery as recent sessions, but it felt harder than "threshold" - I blame others stubbornly sticking to pace in the face of windy conditions.    Anyway, I think they were all 5:20 with a cheeky 5:19 on the end (but I was having timing issues, so I might be lying by a second either way.)  Rest day tomorrow.  Tapertapertaper...

Edited: 04/04/2013 at 22:03
04/04/2013 at 22:30

Slight change of plan to the run tonight. After looking at the route again and seeing the sideways snow out the window I decided a steady pace as opposed to 10k pace would be more suitable. 

Had a nice easy run to the club meet around a mile away from home. Around half a mile in to the main run I knew even the reduced pace wasn't going to happen on the off road route, so ran entirely on feel and tried to keep it what i'd imagine tempo pace would have felt like on the road. Wasn't too far off pace and hopefully the uneven ground has been a bit kinder to the legs and helped build strength a bit. As soon as I hit the road the pace came right down and the last mile was 7:05 which is steady state pace in accordance with my mcmillan training paces so fairly happy with the run. Tidy push to the finish for the last few 100m's nipping under 5m/m which was nice Legs feel fine afterwards too so should still be fairly fresh for parkrun saturday.

After this week i'll probably avoid parkruns and concentrate on training for my next couple of races next month. 

Edited: 04/04/2013 at 22:33
05/04/2013 at 08:27

"Sunny Intervals" forecast for tomorrow. See, even the weather sounds speedy!

Edited: 05/04/2013 at 08:28
06/04/2013 at 10:04

Still awaiting official confirmation obviously, but the Garmin read a 35 second PB as I crossed the line at parkrun this morning.

Should be about 21:22 I reckon.

That's now 3:14 off from 24:36 at the turn of the year, and 4:13 off from my debut 4 months ago.

Suspect the next 4 minutes might take a little longer mind......
06/04/2013 at 10:50
Good work Bob, nice way to set up the weekend!

I did my first 5k in 19.07 18 months ago and I've lopped a massive 24 seconds since!
06/04/2013 at 10:51
Lopped off!
06/04/2013 at 10:55

Well done Bob, great result! I think it was definitely a day for it today. Nice and cool, small amount of breeze but nothing serious. Another 20 seconds off for me today, might have been more had I started the push to the finish sooner, down to 19:06 now (EDIT: 19:09 according to parkrun). Bit disappointed to miss sub-19 but pleased all the same, and it'll be official this time as I remembered my barcode, hooray! I'll keep 19 minutes a soft target for the near future 

What am I supposed to base my training on now though? This performance? Or my recent 10k/10m race times that aren't in line with this at all anymore! I'm confused! 

Edited: 06/04/2013 at 10:58
06/04/2013 at 11:09
Iower, great run. as there is defo more to come you need to adjust your training paces to this run.
06/04/2013 at 15:22
Good running Bob and iower great PBs! That must be a nice timely reminder about progress made recently Bob following last weeks 10K...and iower, that's a large PB to make in one week nice one! That must be sub 40 10K form if you have or build up the endurance which it sounds like you are nicely!

Good conditions today at Netley Abbey too and dry underfoot for the first time in recent memory which was something in itself! Managed a a 37 second PB for this Parkrun in 19:37 although that was a bonus more than anything. I decided to have a deliberatly fast start with the intention of hanging on at the end...this was reflected in splits of 6:02, 6:27, 6:32 and 5:41 for my 'sprint'...or lack of! Running over the past week has been in taper mode with Brighton next Sunday (included a relaxed 7 m/m 5K time trail at my club which included running round with a club colleague who gave me some decent marathon advice)...just a ten miler tomorrow with a few miles at MP and two short easy runs next week (and an inline hockey match against the league leaders who are the equivalent of a 33 min 10K runner on Monday...hmmmm).

Nice to see progress at long last YD! That fitness will come back stronger than ever and who knows, one step back to go even further forward? So you put me in for 3:20 next week then? No pressure there at all! :-P The minimum I'd like now is sub 3:30 I'd guess but am going to approach it as sensibly as possible and aim for half way in 1:45 as a minimum depending on how I feel and then assess what is sustainable up to 20 miles.

How's the new shoes Duck? And your planning to wimp out of a 1,500 next weekend rather than add it to the 100 and 400m's deary me! :-P I did a few 1,500 metre races in my school days but can't remember the times at all

Nice negative split PRF! Sounds like VLM preparation is going great....finally got round to reading your blogs and they are a good read with the spontaneous travelling you do!

Hope the 10K goes well tomorrow Mr V!

Shame about London Ratzer....any focused training plans for summer targets?

What marathon are you entering Vellooo? A long run once a month (16-20) miles is something I'd like to carry on with as well.

Looks like a fun days pacing Phil...and some monster mileage there! Any plans to carb load with a curry in the days before VLM? I'm asking as I'd normally see something like this as a post race treat but perhaps not in this case??? I love my curry too much so any excuse for me!

Why thank you Curly! Doesn't seem like its just a week away now with the weather still being as cold as it is! :-S That said, it looks milder for the day although the forecast is changing constantly at the moment between mild and warmer conditions! If I see both of you then sure thing, it may even end up similar to Chichester when we were pretty any case it would be great to latch onto a group if possible. In some ways an enforced slower start in the blue pen may not be a bad thing with my past experience! Hope the taper is going along nicely....see above for my aims....something between 3:20 and 3:30 would be great!

Stevie - I have since realised my Run Britain handicap might be compromised by some slow Parkruns with the other being on a very muddy and hilly in places Eastleigh Parkrun the day before the Eastleigh 10K in 40 odd minutes (quite a contrast between the two courses then!). Not bothered that much by it (I'm never going to be at the top end to worry too much) but my partner isn't too keen on it as a slower recreational ru
06/04/2013 at 15:27
Bit of an essay going on there...sorry guys!

Was saying my partner isn't too keen on the PO10 ranking for Parkrun as she thinks its not so encouraging for slower recreational runners like herself!

Thinking about a few who haven't been on here in a while...hope YPs MK marathon plans are going well and that CBs training is going along nicely.
Edited: 06/04/2013 at 15:27
06/04/2013 at 15:40

iower, dash - Thanks. Revised down to 21:24 in the end, but still delighted with that. Found myself isolated for the vast majority of well over the last half of the run which was a bit annoying - almost always seems to happen to me at parkrun - and makes it difficult to push as hard as I can when running with others.

Was also a bit late getting down there today, didn't get as long a warm up as I'd like and was still blowing a bit from the strides when we got going.

At 64.72%, it gets me tantalisingly close to the 65% WAVA mark, so maybe next week for that - although the mileage will be going back up this week as I look longer term again, so that might take a bit out of the legs come Saturday.

Much better splits today at 6:49, 6:54, 6:49 and then 5:30 pace in the push for the line over what the Garmin measured as the last 0.16 of a mile rather than 0.1. 

Dash - 19:07 on 5k debut?!  Aye caramba. Did you carry a strong level of fitness into your running from other sports, or had you just concentrated on other distances first? I'm sure you'll be smashing that down further now you're back at it and sounding strong anyway.

iower - Top stuff from're flying at the moment - congrats! Am I right in thinking thats about 2:20 off your PB in a fortnight? (Albeit was previously a self confessed soft one.)

Agree with Dash too - use this for your training times, but if there's a big discrepancy between this and your 10k times, perhaps focus your training on endurance rather than speed for a couple of months?

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