The Middle Ground

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17/04/2013 at 19:47
Duck, how can 1 hour pace be difficult to run for 20/25 mins? Science please, which I know you are familiar with, and none of the ' race-day magic' bollocks!
17/04/2013 at 19:52
.....and thanks Billy J!
17/04/2013 at 20:54

WJH - great report.  Well done.

Kelly - yes, I'll more than likely end up there again.  I thinking about a complete change over the summer though so it won't be a target marathon, more just a bit of fun.  But there again both times I've done it I've ran really good times from no specific marathon training so maybe I should treat it a bit more serious.


18/04/2013 at 09:26

WJH – Nice report there. Hope you can summon the motivation to set yourself a new goal now the mara is done. I’ve also had race rage in the past as well – though not instigated by me I might add!

Kelly – I was so glad I wasn’t doing the Sand Dancer given how windy it was. Rather you than me. Hope you are starting to feel better and are ok for Sunday.

I ran a hill session last night and actually felt ok. I had jelly legs on the jog home afterwards though I think that was just due to it being a tough run. The refuelled with some chicken. Felt very strange given its probably 2 years since I’ve last eaten any meat!

18/04/2013 at 09:37

Si, Duck - Thanks for the advice, but, yes - target pace tonight is around 1 hour / LT pace, though not for the full 4 miles. After a mile's warmup, will progress the first mile at tempo up to approx HM pace, and then plan to hit and try to hold at approx. 7:20 pace for the next 3 miles (so, around 22 mins) before a final mile warm down. Appreciate it's a tough session, and is why it's a month since I've tackled it. Not sure I understand why I wouldn't necessarily get the desired training effect though, Simon - can you explain? I'm basically working to the theory at the moment that whilst I ration my hard sessions, I do ensure those sessions are hard, and try to include as much variety in all my runs as possible and thus give myself a wide range of training stimuli. So, over the last few weeks, amongst the easy and long stuff, I've included intervals, as well as some shorter tempo sessions, parkruns, a couple of other races, and plan to reintroduce a bit more hillwork over the weekend or early next week which I've overlooked recently. A periodic session like this does also give me the opportunity to track progress and particularly appeals to the stats geek side of my nature. Since starting some strengthening work, I've (touch wood)  stayed healthy and even niggle free, and with progress generally continuing to be good I guess what I'm saying through all that waffle is that I'd need a bit more convincing as to why this session isn't a good idea! 

And I'll go bold  and predict 17:19 for your 5000m at the weekend, Simon...provided you lay off the burgers. 

Mr V - Mmmmm, meat. The missus is a veggie so for the sake of simplicity, I do end up eating veggie most nights of the week too. Probably no bad thing though, and it does make me appreciate the meat all the more when I do have it! Good luck with getting your system back on an even keel, and glad to hear your session last night went well. Hope it's a corner turned.

Good report, WJH! Lots of hiccups along the way by the sounds of it to try to throw you out of your stride, but take them in your stride you did, so well done - and great work with those splits. 

Kelly - Congrats on the gold - you've got to be in to win it.  

18/04/2013 at 10:04

WJH great race report - I suspect your slowing was due to the head wind as nearly everyone's splits I've seen suffer the same over the last miles from the power station to the turn into the final road (where it was slightly less in the face).

Your plans for the summer and beyond sound good - nice variety but a real target to aim for in Cardiff half. I would make that your next A race and use the other bits as training blocks, that should help keep the motivation up.

I still have to decide about the rest of my plans for the year, I'll let you know when I do. I have a slight cold (well a sore throat anyway), so am resting up but am starting to get twitchy now to go out tonight, but will use the N+1 rule and leave it till tomorrow. Legs are almost fully recovered now and I can cycle without ouch so thats a good sign I think.

Duck/Simon yes both elements I would like to work on for my next marathon.

Simon good luck for the 5000m - I've got a 400m race on Saturday Its okay though they know I've only just done a marathon so arent expecting anything fast. Its just a marker for next time!

Kelly oh my you poor thing! Good to get a gold medal though - you can only beat who turns up after all

Mr V sorry about your problems continuing - you have been tested for gluten havent you? Its just if you are having problems absorbing things its likely you will be deficient in multiple nutrients and vitamins as well which could be leading your legs to be wiped out.

Mace lol that doesnt sound like a good running style to me but I'll take it as a compliment. I was running at that point with my other half, who met me later on in the race as I slowed down! How did you do?

18/04/2013 at 12:39

Curly, it's meant as a compliment  ... you looked effortless

My chip was 3:16:52 , with about 1min positive split. There's some grim buggers in this lot especially hanging on at the end

18/04/2013 at 12:42

WJH - fantastic ....well done!

You, Curly and Mace just need to be sensible now ... I felt invincible after my last mara and ended up very badly injured a few weeks later. Take some time to recover properly.

18/04/2013 at 12:43

Never had a mid race rage incident. I once got annoyed by someone draughting me on a windy day, so I pulled out and told him it was his turn, he obliged.

Vellooo – that sounded like a respectable Half Marathon performance in windy conditions the other day.

Duck – same comment I made to Velloo, wind is a bugger. Stop slagging Perth off, I have family there (the McHoldsworth’s  )

Simon – that 3,000m time was decent considering you’re a fatty.

Mr V – welcome to the world of meat, oh err. Offal is where it’s at these days…….
Good news the session went well last night. As for the Yorkshire Marathon, yep me too, I quite fancy it now, think it will take a while for me to build up though. If I get in, we should meet up for a couple of long runs when I am up North or you are down visiting your folks. I know some good routes near Sutton Bank that will get you strong, also some good running around the Helmsley area.

Kelly – hope the cold and caugh clear soon. You are made of tough stuff running when under the weather, I wouldn’t run, but I am a wimp.

WHJ – enjoyed the report and well done on some good pacing. That slow first mile was probably a blessing.
As for your next set of targets, I would just have a few weeks of just running without a serious focus. After a while you will be chomping at the bit to get back into it and chasing times again. From that list there are plenty of good options for you to go at.
Impressed with your recovery, expecially considering you played roller hockey on Monday!
As for my recovery see bellow:

Last week I reported feeling a bit blergh. Well it developed into a sore throat, high temperature feeling crap type thing. So no running from last Wednesday through to Tuesday this week. On Tuesday I ran 2.6 miles outside, felt horrible (virus sweating out) but leg ok.
Yesterday lunchtime I ran 3 miles outside with some hills and 5 miles on the treadmill last night. No complaints from my leg, but I tired quite a bit towards the end of the 5 miler. So plenty work to do…..
Plan is to rest today with some core work tonight; then test the leg a little bit more with a slightly longer run outside on Friday 3.5 - 4 miles. I will probably do something a bit more testing on the treadmill over the weekend, tempo lite type run and then take it from there.

X-post Mace, some good neck gurning there. You may have invented a new category of gurning  Good time as well, 1 min positive split is good going, well done.

Edited: 18/04/2013 at 12:48
18/04/2013 at 12:54

YD - "neck gurning" ... love it  and thanks

18/04/2013 at 13:22

Well done Mace - was that a pb? Good pacing there (unlike me)

LOL about neck gurning!

Good news about the return YD seems like the illness might have come at the right time to help you ease back in.

Dont worry Dr Dan I'm taking lots of rest, no plans for target races until the 10k on 19th May only done two runs so far of 20 minutes. In fact "run" might be a bit generous jog/hobble is a bit more like it.

18/04/2013 at 13:27

Just spotted the videos - I do run like a race walker!!! Oh dear - especially clear on the 21km one:

18/04/2013 at 13:42

Curly, first one so yes it was a pb

How wonderful to cross the finish line with your other half  And i guess you must be pretty evenly matched ....

18/04/2013 at 14:19
mace wrote (see)

Curly, first one so yes it was a pb


A triumph of Hadd training.

18/04/2013 at 14:39

YD – I think offal might take some building up to  Hopefully your enforced week off will actually benefit your leg. I’m defo up for a couple of long runs once we get to mara prep time.

Curly – Recovery looks to be going well for you. Good luck with the 400 – will be nice to get a base time you can then smash later in the year.

Mace – Excellent pacing there and some half decent gurns as well!

18/04/2013 at 17:38
Just back from the GP and unsurprisingly - a chest infection.

Got myself a week's worth of antibiotics, so hopefully it will take a hike and let me get back to running.

Curly - I'd rather look like a race walker than a shuffling elephant like me

Mace - superb pacing, especially for a first time marathon. Do you have any other race times?

YD - sounds promising for recovery, apart from the cold.

Mr V - talking of bacon last night reminded me I had some prosciutto in the fridge so I had that and poached eggs for tea. It was delicious!

Dr Dan - how are you doing? How is the foot?
19/04/2013 at 06:29
Kaysdee - thanks, I've been improving since ( as Dr Dan mentions ) taking up HADD about a year ago so my conversions are a bit skewed. I raced a half end of sept in 1:47:xx then raced a 10 in December 71:13. McMillan predicts a 3:21 or thereabouts from my 10M time

Take care with the chest infection.
19/04/2013 at 09:41

YD - Not much luck for you at the moment - hope you get back out there today.

Great vid, Curly! Slight refinement to the technique, plenty of training, and it's off to Rio for the 20km walk for you! 

Kelly - The antibiotics should sort you out, probably already having an effect? As a regular sufferer, I usually feel much better in myself within a day, and the chest begins clearing after a couple. Can't believe you raced with it though?! Crazy in the coconut.

Great result, mace - well done!

Interesting session last night. Breezy warm up heading down to the Trent, turned on to the riverside itself, and WHAM - straight into the teeth of a 25mph westerly. Rendered the individual splits pretty meaningless, but felt like about the right level of effort throughout. 7:55 for the first mile, target 7:41, and was then after around 7:20 pace for the next three. Failed miserably still struggling into the wind for the first mile at 7:34, crossed the bridge to double back on myself about half way through the second, 7:23, before the wind finally helped a bit for much of the third mile in 6:54. Averages out at just below 7:17 pace for the 3 key miles with Mcmillan predicting 7:16 LT pace off my 21:13 5k time. Pleased with that - good session, was hard but didn't leave me feeling wrecked, certainly much easier than the last time I attempted a similar session at a noticeably slower pace a month ago. Legs in decent shape today, though it's a rest day anyway. Sportsmans' dinner with the cricket club for a now rare big session on the booze tonight. First time most of the lads will have seen me since I lost over two stone, and expecting lots of amusement and not inconsiderable ridicule when I tell them I'm trying to turn myself into a runner!

19/04/2013 at 10:11
BBB - can you believe I was accused yesterday of being stubborn and pigheaded? He's supposed to love me too!

Enjoy tonight.
19/04/2013 at 10:26

I'm sure his plain speaking of the undeniable truth doesn't make him love you any less, Kelly! 

P.S. Just got myself 4 tickets for the family and I for the Sunday of the Anniversary Games at the Olympic Stadium this summer.  


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