The Middle Ground

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19/04/2013 at 11:16

Sounds like an excellent session Bob. Increasing paces (wind or no) as the session progresses is always a good sign. Enjoy the Sportsmans’ dinner tonight.

Curly – will check the speed walking video out late.

– stubborn, never  Good luck with the antibiotics.

4 mile run for me this morning, felt ok, no problems whatsoever at the back of the knee or any of the other spots on the hamstring that have been an issue recently.
I was getting a flicker or a feeling, call it a phantom or extra tiredness in my adductor (I think it’s the Garcilis in this case not the main adductor muscle) and top of the thigh / hip flexor area (Sartorius maybe – sorry been googling ).
My theory is that as a result of all the strengthening and re-alignment work I have done these muscles are being used in a slightly different way to before. I think it will just be a case of building up slowly. its just these muscles are working slightly differently since the injury.
Oh and 8:00/mi pace felt like hard work, I have a lot of fitness to get back!

19/04/2013 at 13:51

Kelly well that does make sense re: coughing and chest infection, usually the anti b's kick in after 4 doses or so, and please remember N+1 for your return to running!

I'm off out for a little jog in a mo - legs have felt fine since yesterday and cold is fine too so going to see how they are before my 400m tomorrow

BBB cheeky buggar  Nice work on your session though well done on slogging that out in the wind. Mighty fine improvement over such a short space of time (can all you newbies stop beating my times please )

YD that sounds promosing, except the over googlingitis, fitness will come back quickly as you know.

Sooo, have made a decision, with Moraghan to not do an autunm mara this year and just plough straight through to VLM next year. The main thinking being to do with training weeks versus recovery weeks. If I want to get where I want to be by April, its easier off more training (obviously) but every marathon requires at least 7 weeks of reduced or no training so its better for me to practice pacing in other ways and train in those weeks instead.

Definitely up for Gosport as the A target for the autumn as well - WJH you can pace me to a decent time

19/04/2013 at 14:10

Howdy peeps!

Kelly - Still going through the wars.  Get well soon!!

YD - No idea on your theory but sounds like progress of a sort.  At least you've managed to avoid the turbo.

Curly - Good plan.  I really enjoy a target HM without a marathon to worry about, just seems to hit my sweet-spot of training intensities vs volume.  Depending on how friends and club mates' mid/long term social/training plans pan out, my next marathon after VLM could be Berlin '14.

Aaaah, carb load time!  This afternoon (on top of my usual lunch and fruity snacks) I will mostly be eating a pesto pasta salad, 12 Jaffa cakes, and possibly an extra bowl of cereal, depending on how the Jaffa cakes go down. Tomorrow's mid-morning extra cheeky snack will be a Soreen malt loaf with lashings of raspberry jam.  This all adds up to an extra carb calorie count of... actually I haven't got a feckin' clue, but I reckon it'll do the job.   

19/04/2013 at 14:17

Bob, your session looks fine, my point is that there can be a few problems with spending too long at a certain training pace: 1) harder sessions take longer to recover from, 2) the longer you spend at a pace the higher the intensity and the likelihood that you are running too hard (this is mitigated if you run to HR, rather than pace) 3) Running form can suffer because of fatigue and loss of alertness.

I think that a good approach to a session is to try and spend as long as possible at an intensity while minimising the amount of stress. In fact, this is the principle behind interval sessions. The approach is widely taken with VO2 max training but it doesn't seem so often with threshold training.

My favourites:

WU; 20' @ T; 15' jog; 15' @ T; CD

WU; 3 x 1 mile @ T with 1' jog recovery; 15' jog; 2 x 1 mile with 1' jog recovery; CD

With these session I can spend 5-6 miles running at threshold intensity, but the recoveries ensure that I am not over-stressing myself and can recover quite well.

I managed to get a couple of tickets for the Sunday too, but the whole ticketing process was an absolute joke. I'm going to just boycott ticketmaster from now on and anybody that associates with them.

Mr V, it does sound like it could be diet-related given your restrictions. Do you plan to seek professional nutritional advice? Hope you're enjoying the meat. I was vegetarian for a few years (trying to impress a girl at college - it didn't work). When I went back to meat I had a salmon salad one day, then it was KFC the following and a kebab not long after. Dunno if that'd help your running though.

YD, I would have thought it more likely you have adjusted your gait (unconciously or not) to try and avoid pain and that's the cause.

Curly, I think race walkers take both feet off the ground more often Any ideas what you'll manage for the 400?

19/04/2013 at 14:54

Hahahaha I felt really self concious on my run today about my form and I get back to see the piss taking continuing Still 3.5 miles @ 8:36

Simon I think sub 70 secs would be fine - looking at last years results most finishers are around 62-66 secs so I would hope to get to that at the next try, but I expect to die on my arse this time due to the marathon still in the legs!

I also do sessions of the sort you describe - they are good fun as not too mentally difficult either.

Enjoy the jaffas/malt loaf/snackage Phil  - need to get my tracker set up for runners on Sunday

19/04/2013 at 15:01

Possibly Simon, amounts to the same thing though.

Sounds like a good ( and a very Moraghan  ) decision Curly.

Turbos are hideous Phil.
Not sure about jam on malt loaf. Butter and strong cheese on malt loaf surely?!!! (though I understand that wont make optimal carb load fuel)

19/04/2013 at 17:15

Phil - Hope the jaffas are going down well

Curly - I want to ask where you want to be next April. I think it might be a secret though  Probably a sensible plan you've decided on.

YD - Good news on the recovery. Those first few runs back always feel a right effort.

Simon - I might do. I'm going to see if I get any improvement in the next couple of weeks before doing anything else.

Half day at work so made the most of the sunshine and did a 16.5 miler. this afternoon. First 10 easy @ 8mm, the 5.5 steady @7mm and a little cool down. Average of 7.40 for the whole run. Been feeling a bit stronger the last couple of runs although I still didn't feel able to push the steady section up to MP. Hopefully I'm starting to turn a bit of a corner though.

19/04/2013 at 18:33

YD/Mr V - Sounding tentatively promising on the recovery fronts.

Curly - Have to add to the race walking comments. Have you seen any pics/videos of Ellie Dooley in action? You're the spitting image!

Phil - Jaffa Cakes are being consumed at a healthy rate here too


Rotherham parkrun in the morning and then might have a think about a visit to that Excel place....

19/04/2013 at 19:26

Mr V, I'd say that run demonstrates reasonable fitness, even if it's not quite what you'd expect. Have you given any more thought to middle distance?

20/04/2013 at 17:51

Best of British to all MGers (and lurkers) doing that jog in London tomorrow.  May you all beat our top Olympic distance runner to the finish!

Soz about no posts, but much going on in TRW and therefore no time or ability.

If any of you are at the Expo, take a giz at the bloke up in lights on the Cancer Research stand.  I'm there in spirit...!!!  

20/04/2013 at 18:52

Delurk (will delurk sort of properly soon!)

What are people's numbers for tomorrow?


20/04/2013 at 18:55

Hahaha all I will say is dont try and race 400m 6 days after a marathon - no speed at all in the legs, but a very comfortable 75.8, followed up a few hours later with another 75.9 in the 4 x 4 relay.

Simon did well

20/04/2013 at 19:51

Ratzer - All the best people have a full-time presence at the expo. 

Simon - Saw your result.  Top bombing!

Curly - That's a lot quicker than I plan on running next week! I bet that's loosened things up a bit.

chubby: 619.

Fully carb'd up over here and settling down watching Rocky IV.  Already looking a lot more cartoon-like than I remember it when I saw it in the cinema aged 16 or whatever, but might provide some weird sort of inspiration for the morning. 

20/04/2013 at 20:18

Well done, Curly, Running a marathon and a 400 in the space of a week is great I look forward to seeing what you can do when fresh,. Oh, and nice high knees as well

Looking forward to tomorrow. See you at mile 25, Phil.

17:20.7 for me today, which is a 20 second PB, and a win in the B Race. 1600 splits were 5:27; 5:36; 5:42 :-/ which tells a tale. The first mile felt v. comfortable, but the rest hurt like hell and can't wait to get back to a respectable distance

20/04/2013 at 22:53
Busy little period for me so just a quick pop in to say all the best to all at the marathon tomorrow and Phil and PRF in particular of course. You've done the hard work, now go out, reap the rewards and feckin' nail it, fellas! Will be trying to keep tabs on your progress throughout the morning.

Excellent result today, Si - think I predicted 17:19 - do I win a prize? Well done with your 400 Curly too. Great effort, particularly 6 days after Brighton!

Will have a proper catch up tomorrow.
21/04/2013 at 08:25

Simon, cracking good time, well done. You would go sub 17 (and then some probably)  very quickly with a few a long runs and some specific 5k sessions under your belt. 

Curly - consistent consistency is key  Well done for getting out there this week.

50 minutes progressive on the treadmill for me yesterday. Built up a right sweat, was hitting 6:15/mi towards the end, but that was very hard work. Some way to go, but the leg is holding up.

VLM tracking for Chubby Bloke

VLM Numbers:
Phil 619
prf 31891
Minni 29044

others of interest to this thread:
Keir (prf’s mentee) 30831,
TR (pops in occasionally) 31054,
cant think of any more that would be of interest to this thread.On the tracker you can search on number, name, club. You can also store runners you are tracking on one page, saves you searching each time.
Looking forward to it, Mrs YD is taking junior out this morning so I can watch the Marathon in peace 

Edited: 21/04/2013 at 08:26
21/04/2013 at 10:25

Phil through 5k in a shade under 2:30 pace!

21/04/2013 at 10:25

Phil through 5k in 17:46, so thats 2:31 pace 

21/04/2013 at 10:30

prf 20:48
Minni 22:46
Keir 20:26
TR 20:33

21/04/2013 at 10:46

Joolska seems to be having a good one... as does Phil at this point!

I have to leave for work in half an hour. Just when its getting good. Waaa.

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