The Middle Ground

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03/05/2013 at 13:37

Great stuff, vellooo...speedy stuff! 

Bummer of a race for you the other night, DT19 - wish you better for Sunday. Mate of mine's doing that Bristol 10k too. You'll be comfortably ahead of him, mind!

Some more good running from, CB - sounds like you're right back at it now!

And thanks for your thoughts, folks. Shin feeling a little better but some confusing stuff online I've been reading through...though think I at least ruled out a stress facture which was beginning to prey on my mind by doing a 'hop test' ok. And yes, Mr V - some cross training is definitely in the offing - might have a little twirl on the exercise bike tonight I think, ahead of tomorrow's cricket. If it's a shin splint type injury, it would appear a bit of running around on grass tomorrow shouldn't do too much damage. Simon - No, never did ice it.  Should have done, but really didn't think much of it when I got back on Sunday, never got round to it on Monday, and thought it was too late thereafter. Stupid though, wish I had now, and certainly will next time.

Got my race pack through for the Leicester 10k next Sunday through the post when I got home last night. Bad timing, and upped the feeling of frustration. Reckon I'm 50/50 at best for blasting myself round tarmac in 9 days time! Probably ought to be writing off completely really...but I'm a stubborn fool.

03/05/2013 at 14:13

Anyone read this thread. Bit of afternoon entertainment for those wishing the hours away and a stark reminder to those more experienced racers of the pitfalls of the debut race!!

Bristol should be a nice run, did the half last year and was flat and i'm following it with a day on the beers down there watching the footy!

good l;uck to anyone else racing this weekend!

03/05/2013 at 14:41

Aye - superb thread - read that yesterday and have shared with a few non-running associates who enjoyed it too! 

04/05/2013 at 07:24

Morning all, 

Still here, and still lurking...

Have found a bit of running mojo back, and have done 4 runs this week. Slowest was 5k in 30 mins (with my son), quickest was 5miles in 41 mins. I'm hoping 2 more weeks of just running 4-5 times a week will get me up to around 35 miles per week, and then I can decide what I want to start training for.

good to see others training go well - reading about others enjoying their running makes me want to...

04/05/2013 at 10:37

Mr V, 1500 will definitely be my best distance this year. My next race is tomorrow which is a grass mile.

Phil, sounds like good plan. I remember how much you picked up over MD between our 1500 and the 3 x 1 mile relay last year so I'm sure you'll get a massive PB if you manage to get a couple in.

Hi YP, good to see you're running again and out at parkrun this morning. Sorry I didn't get a chance to say hello, but I was concentrating on running with my brother's dog. I didn't realise how much more tiring it would be with an animal attached. His splits were 7:00 for the first mile, 7:50 for the second, then he dropped out :-P

04/05/2013 at 10:48
Simon Edward wrote (see)

Hi YP, good to see you're running again and out at parkrun this morning. Sorry I didn't get a chance to say hello, but I was concentrating on running with my brother's dog. I didn't realise how much more tiring it would be with an animal attached. His splits were 7:00 for the first mile, 7:50 for the second, then he dropped out :-P

Good to hear you're running YP.

Delamere Parkrun this morning. 23 mins in the drizzle. 24 secs faster than last week for same PE (I think!). Hope people are having fun out there...

04/05/2013 at 14:21

vellooo - Congrats!  If anyone asks, I'm still using my parkrun time for 5k road pb, since they did actually borrow someone else's pre-existing certified course!

Bob - 9 days is a long time in running.  There will be plenty of 10Ks though.

YP - Good stuff. Good time to be getting the old mojo back.

I've started the multi-sport Summer schedule today with my return to the velodrome.  Had a couple of blonde moments, the first being forgetting to put my bike lock key back on the fob, so I couldn't use my own bike, which is stored at the track.  D'oh! Still, the hire bikes aren't too bad... Then I managed to have my first "crash" on the track in absolutely years, a rather embarrassing slow speed incident, rubbing wheels with another rider when he didn't pull away from the fence as quickly as I though he would.  Proper schoolboy stuff.   Was OK when I got going but I've definitely lost some cycling fitness. Struggled to keep up right at the end of ~90 mins of cycling when the faster guys got going. That'll come back though.


04/05/2013 at 15:28
Simon Edward wrote (see)

I was concentrating on running with my brother's dog. I didn't realise how much more tiring it would be with an animal attached. His splits were 7:00 for the first mile, 7:50 for the second, then he dropped out :-P

Hilarious. Great to bump into you again at Nonsuch. Managed a sub20, but not sure if PB sub19:57 ... waiting for results. Maybe just the easier revised course (toiugh the grass secton up the middle is a bit rough). Need to try a Bushy Park to make it 'official' Good luck with the race.

04/05/2013 at 19:09

hello all. Back from a very hot week in India. Managed 3 runs on the treadmill and this included a session of 6x600 repeats at approx 3k pace. Felt comfortably tough, how long should I rest between reps? I think I was jogging for approx 2 minutes between each effort. I've entered my first post marathon race. I am doing a low key local 10k race which was my first race from last year (48:30ish). Hoping to break 40mins this time although it is quite a lot of off road and 2 big hills so maybe an ambitious target. 

Good luck with the mile race Simon and PP glad the crash was not too bad. 

04/05/2013 at 20:50

Dav, good to see you out again too. Well done on the sub-20. Course B is a bit quicker than course B, but I don't think by that much - maybe 10 seconds?

Pittsy, I did a very similar sessions recently, except it was 6 x 600 @ 2.5 k pace. I took 60 seconds recovery.

05/05/2013 at 13:39

Good to see the usual enthuiasm and good training going on. A couple of newbies since I last posted, so hello to you!

Went outside the comfort zone last week, and did a 3k track race.

Wasn't quite knowing what to expect so put 10 dead on the card.

Therefore ended in the "slow" race out of the 3, and was slightly perturbed to basically be against a bunch of kids....and 4 over 20s.

Long story short, had a good bit of fun, and after leading for 6 laps came 2nd out of the 20 in 9:46:18. (precise 100s of a second...impressed me!).

Didn't feel at all wiped out, so I guess I got the intensity wrong...

next time I'll try and get in the middle race...times in that ranged form 8.48 to 9.48. While 9.46 would have been 21st out of 22, I'm certain with people to race, rather than lead, it'll come out quicker!

Anyone else raced a 3k track race any time recently?

Edited: 05/05/2013 at 13:39
05/05/2013 at 21:16

SG, that's a great time, especially considering you are longer-distance biased. I ran 10:04 a few weeks back. Not a great race for me and I would expect to be running about 9:45 myself to be honest, but maybe that's talk - I do fall off pretty badly after 1500m. A smackdown could be interesting at some point ... I've got another in a couple of weeks although not 100% sure if I'm doing that or doubling up over 800/1500

I was at the Reigate Penny Stevens 1 Mile today. It's basically a loop on grass with a slight climb at the start/slight drop at the finish.

Race summary: I went off at a reasonable pace - a few lively ones were a bit ambitious but I could tell they weren't worth worrying about from their style. After about 400 I took the lead and had a couple of people on my shoulder. I figured the have-a-gos would be dropped by about 800m and I was right - there was just one guy breathing down my neck. I picked things up a touch, but he went with me. With about 500 to go I could feel him trying to go past me, but I made a decision there and then that I was going to win the race so I stepped it up another gear. I was actualy really hurting at this point and just doing everything I could to maintain pace and stay in front - he really pushed me hard. Round the last corner I just put everything I had into it - which wasn't that much - and managed to hold him off to win the race.

The result was a 4:48. A big mile PB and also my highest WAVA. And on mildly undulating, cambered-grass!

I got the standard free t-shirt and participation medal, but also got a nice glass plaque to keep, £25 of vouchers and a lovely silver cup that's mine for the next year. Great day.

Edited: 06/05/2013 at 01:46
06/05/2013 at 07:19

Morning everyone! I really need to try and post more consistently 

Simon, I do understand what you're saying re: 400/800 differences, although lactic glycolytic training does have a very important part in the 400m too of course.  These types of runs do produce high levels of lactic which is essential training for both distances (it's like sessions like 2*1000 @ mile pace or 2*600 @ 800 pace), and I am trying to keep the CP training going with max speed endurance sessions too. It does seem so far that this training is producing the results for me, although given the lower volume, and harder nature of these reps I doubt my mile time would be anything spectacular.

 I'd recommend having a look at threads like this, which discuss this sort of training in some detail (and far better than I can).

Nice mile time yesterday... for a fat bastard 

Bob, cocknobs indeed. Take it easy with that shin, get some ice on it and let it heal!

DT19 - yeah bad days happen, in fact I'd say out of every 10 races, 6 are reasonable estimates of your form, 3 are crap, and 1 is great.

stevie, nice 3k, probably would have been best to have been in a quicker heat given your longer distance times. Track racing is very hard to get the pacing right at first, stick with it a bit (a few 5000s perhaps?) and you'll nail it.

So this last week's training has gone very well for me  Had some difficulty Monday with high winds for some 800s (2'25.4, 2'26.9, 2'23.7) which I think was worth a 1-2s per lap. 

Then Friday was 400/300/200, then 4*100/100j in 60.4, 42.5, 26.2 + 13.3, 14.3, 14.8, 15.6  which was a really good session - 60.4 felt almost easy and I could have gone on for longer. The 300 felt even easier! The 100s were basically there for a lactic overload and by the end it was really tough, so job done.

Yesterday was 3*600 + 1*300. Basically the idea was to simulate running the first 600m of an 800m race (although at slower speeds) - hard first 200, float 200-400 then accelerate 400-600. Ran 1'37.5, 1'38.8, 1'38.5 which all felt really good (I consistently split 30s for 200, 63 for 400) and I think I could have kept going to 800 on all of them and run a couple of low to mid 2'1x 800s. Then another 300 which was 42.8.

I'm basically feeling in great form right now. The specific fitness is really starting to show through now and it's all coming together  can't do the 800 tomorrow unfortunately but there is a 5000m on Thursday evening which I'm going to do just to see what happens 

Edited: 06/05/2013 at 07:50
06/05/2013 at 09:54

Morning, folks. 

Good to hear YP is getting the trainers on again, and CB continuing to make progress.  Insatiable stuff from Phil as ever and some good training from Pittsy.

Top racing over the shorter stuff from Stevie and Si. Nice vid, Si - kept your form better than your oppo round that final corner there!

Hard to get your head round training from the Duck as ever, but sounds quick anyway! Be good to see how that comes out in a race - can relate to that a bit better!

Still not quite sure what to make of the shin at the moment but got through cricket OK on Saturday, and also my first run for a week yesterday. Played it safe, and took a short drive to a local playing field so I was running purely on grass rather than bashing round on tarmac. Did a half hour's easy paced running and, as it did on Saturday, it felt less uncomfortable running than it has done walking! 

Began to stiffen up just as I was calling time on it, but no ill effects afterwards and actually feels like the run has loosened it up this morning, so off for a repeat performance shortly, and will then begin to start to make some decisions about how I approach next Sunday's 10k - or not depending on how it feels. Felt good to be running again anyway, albeit some rather repetitive loops of a very uninteresting rectangular playing field!

06/05/2013 at 13:26

some good times posted there guys!!

Ihad a better 10k in bristol than midweek, came in at 41.22, still disappointed as my HM times say i should be routinely coming in 60-90 secs quicker. It was my first experience of a city 10k. I got quite annoyed at start as spent first mile weaving in and out of people who were going about 4min 30 pace yet started in or around the 40 minute marker. Why dont people start where they should.

Anyway, i have a local 10k next sunday after which i think i am going to step back from racing for a few months (5 in 6 weeks on the back of a month of with injury in march) as i constantly feel like i am in that race/recovery/easy training cycle and need to just concentrate of some routine stuff for a bit.

06/05/2013 at 22:22

Bob, good call running on the grass. A small strain can feel a bit stiff afterwards so do try and stretch (gently) and ice and everything else rehab-wise. 

DT, race/recovery/easy training is something I went through in 2011 - just race, recover, race.... no time for training and I suffered due to it. Remember training is like putting money into a bank account and racing is withdrawing some of those funds - if you go overdrawn you're in trouble!

Never noticed it when I signed up, but this Thursday's meet has a 400m as well... so I've shifted my pre-entry to the 400m instead. A 5000 would be good but a 400 is a main goal for this year so it's much more important. I'd run both but the 400s are right after the 5000 and I really want a good 400 time. 

And here's me running my 300 on Sunday morning. If you're interested. 

07/05/2013 at 08:11

Good parkrun and 10k DT. The 10k time you want will come!

Great 3k SG.


Good luck on Thursday Duck

Glad to hear that you can get out again BBB.

12 miles on Sunday saw my longest run since my blip. Day off yesterday - went up Moel Famau with Mrs CB and Little Miss CB. 1.5 miles and 200m of ascent in 2.5 hours, but then Chloe is only 2 1/2!

07/05/2013 at 09:08

Well done at Bristol, DT. Beat my mate by about 12 minutes there - he had a bit of a Weston even by his standards!

Thought you were so bloody fast that the camera wasn't picking you up for the first 30 seconds of that vid, Duck Beautiful looking day though. Good luck on Thursday - though sounds like the weather's going to be a bit wild by then. 

Good long one on Sunday, CB - and some tough MT training there doubt some carrying involved too! 

Yesterday's run went well again. If you'd dropped me into those legs 10 days ago and not told me I'd had a problem in the interim, I'd not have known there was an issue at all during the run itself. So good in fact that I dropped a faster km in at notional HM pace, and after a slower one to confirm there was no reaction to that, picked it up again for a further km close to what had been target 10k race pace next Sunday. Actually came out a few seconds quicker than that and felt comfortable once I was into it. Plenty of stretching and some anti-inflammatories since, and again feels a bit stiff today but not really any discomfort. Further to what Duck was saying, is it actually still worth icing at this late stage? I'm clueless about these things. Won't run today, possibly a whirl on the bike and some strengthening work this evening, and if there's no reaction before tomorrow evening will think about a proper fitness test to finalise a decision for Sunday. Possibly a gentle warm up mile across tarmac to the same playing field, a progressive 3 mile tempo round the grass, and a warm down mile back home.

07/05/2013 at 13:31

Hi All, quick catch up from Sunday. Somewhat inevitably missed my 'A' target at the Alton 10 miler of 70 minutes, and my 'B' target of a p.b, so had to settle for a 'C' target - to beat my Ryde 10 time which was on a comparable course. Had I known what the course was like i'd probably have gone for this in the first place. Hills round every corner and not a great deal of benefit from the downhill sections unless you were happy to sprint down them as they were so steep. Not particularly happy with how I ran it - decided to monitor my progress on the watch but not run to a certain pace, just by feel. Ran the first half too hard I think which meant I slowed after 7 miles and lost quite a few places on the way back (that i'd spent the whole race making up). Still, 72:45 fits in quite nicely in comparison to my 71:03 from Salisbury, just not one i'll be rushing back to in a hurry I don't think! Legs are really feeling it today, ouch!

07/05/2013 at 13:36

SG - I know what you mean, i'd rather be in the last third of a race than leading it, I tend to benefit quite a lot running with others so would undoubtedly be faster running with people than out in front.

Bob - Glad to hear there's some improvement from the legs. I found sitting on my heels (one at a time) to stretch the front of my legs out helped a fair bit with my shin pain. Once you've got used to that you can lean back onto your toes to increase the stretch.

Nice finish Simon, definite determination face that one!

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