The Middle Ground

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04/06/2013 at 15:21

I need to book the morning off tomorrow to read Bob's post....

04/06/2013 at 15:46


04/06/2013 at 17:57

Bobby, I thought i was the king of long winded posts, but you sir are in a different league.  I do love a running post though, so it's all good!

WJH, you my son just experienced what every one of us is paranoid about! Every time i put a chip in I go through all manner of odd pulling, tweaking and kicking actions to make sure!

A teammate actually ran the Bupa London 10k with 2 chips on...he'd already entered as an individual, then got a team place! So ran with both on! Made me chuckle!

05/06/2013 at 10:27

Aye - once I get going, the enthusiasm does rather get the better of me, Stevie! The initial mail I sent approaching the running club I'm probably going to join went a similar way...turned into a right old stream of consciousness.  Clearly made an impression though as they've reproduced it in their monthly club newsletter! 

Guess I try to keep the nitty-gritty away from friends, family (and unsuspecting council workers  ), so it all pours forth on here instead. But likewise, I do tend to have a catch up once or twice a day on your thread and enjoy the background tales as well as the specific running detail. Matt's iPhone cock-ups are a current highlight over there! 

05/06/2013 at 10:44

Glad the club thing went well Bob. Might be good to stick with that group for a while as, as you say the faster group may push your paces too much and not be as effective overall.

I remember my first club session. I went out with the fast group on a tuesday and we did 9 miles in total including i think 8 x 3 mins. I then carried on my normal routine for the rest of the week ie cycled to work the next morning (28  miles roundtrip) then went circuit training thursday night. I had to book the friday afternoon off as i was slumped in my desk all morning with that lack of energy that i have only ever felt after a 24 hour stomach bug! Fortunately i stuck with it and almost exactly 2 years on, having run a largely similar session last night but faster, i managed today to cycle to work on a wednesday for the first time since. Albeit though it is in the knowledge that my training opportunites over the next 2 days are limited due to work and the desire to have a decent crack at parkrun saturday.

05/06/2013 at 11:49

The club sounds promising Bob. There's something to be said in just going for gentle runs rather than pushing yourself with the faster groups. I generally run with the slower groups at our club, happy to let the faster groups go off, knowing that the next time I race them they'll be watching the back of my head

6 gentle miles this morning. Getting bored of plods round this area of Manchester!

05/06/2013 at 12:57

Dammit Bob, does nothing stay hidden these days 

Yep, 5'02 the outcome Sunday, just 1s outside the Scottish record. Unlike most of our miles which end up basically as a solo time trial I ended up not leading until the final 300m! One guy (who I believe is ex-army, runs 17'3x at parkrun and as such is stupidly all-round fit) shot off like a rocket and easily ran sub-68 for thr first lap. A ton of people got drawn into a very fast start so by the end of the first lap I was fourth. 

Started to pick my way through, having a good old-fashioned race and was really enjoying it. I was running without a watch so had no idea of pace, but after halfway was still feeling pretty good. I was now hot on the tail of the leader and with 600 to go was right on his heels. Tried to pass with 500 to go but he wasn't going to give up that easily, and with 1 lap to go we were neck and neck.

I knew I had the speed to waited until 300 to go and put in a long, hard surge which took me clear and I ended up winning by a few seconds, finishing feeling a bit winded but not dying by any stretch of the imagination. At the end of the day it was good, enjoyable race and a nice tune up before this Saturday, and I'm still very confident that a low 4'5x clocking is possible (even more so considering how 5'02 felt). 

I'm uploading the race to YT now so I'll link it when it's done.

Afterwards, took a 20 minute recovery then ran a solo 400m in 57.7 which was pretty windy down the front straight. Aerobically felt ok but legs were tired.

Then did 800 + 650 today - 2'14.3 1'47.1. The 800 felt pretty strong and I wasn't tying up at all. Ran the 650 to feel entirely and tried to make it fairly flat out-  200 splits were 31.2, 32.3, 34.3 (97.7 for 600m) and 9.4 for the final 50m which shows how bad it was! Lactic overload but should hold me in good stead once it comes through. Really positive that the 600 translates to (roughly) 2'12 for 800m especially after a hard 800 before it.

All nice and easy now until Saturday 

Edited: 05/06/2013 at 13:02
05/06/2013 at 13:12

Mr V - do get yourself to a couple! They're great events and although standards are usually insanely high, at the very least they'll let you know what you are capable of and help you in the longer stuff too. 

Nice parkrun, interesting pacing - I agree that sub-17'30 is very possible right now. 

DT, I forget what did you say you had tried out footwear wise? The Gel-DS is a decent Asics to look at if you want something else.

WJH, what a nightmare! Any photos or anything to prove you were there? Regardless at least you managed to record your time. Still hardly ideal  

05/06/2013 at 13:32

For those who don't recognise me, I'm in the centre at the start, wearing the red Fetch vest and long white socks. 

05/06/2013 at 13:39

Great race there Duck and unlucky on sub 5! As you say it's tantalisingly close to the record though so hopefully next time it'll be yours! As for my mile race...I emailed Run Britain and literally just checked, it's now been added - 5:27 in the end! Huge sigh of relief!  

Definitely going to be paranoid for a while now Stevie, I was bad enough worrying in the build up to the Brighton marathon due to previous knee issues! Funny story with your club mate though!  On running VLM 2010, a couple nearby to me about 3 miles in were talking when one of them joked to the other saying 'where is your chip'? She almost stopped on looking down at her feet which then nearly caused a fair few to run into her! A few were annoyed at this at the time but I guess it did show just how paranoid people can be with losing them!

Good the shin issue seems to have cleared Bob! I am sure it won't be long until you get sub 42 with the way you are cracking on at things! Seems to be a good target to have in mind for the moment that's for sure and not just because of V40 PO10 qualification! I thought I waffled on here...well actually that's the difference I enjoy your posts but I read mine and they can be a bit waffly!

Ended up running a club 5k time trail last night as I needed to discuss arrangements for reccing my leg for the South Downs relay later this evening..always good to see club mates as I am not always down my club but from a running side of things it wasn't ideal after a Parkrun and the mile race over the weekend and roller-hockey training Monday evening. Final time was 19:28 roughly and faded throughout until a final push for the line (splits 5:59, 6:18, 6:24 and 5:36 for the last 0.14). I'll be glad to be less prolific in racing after Saturday's relay at least until the end of the month with the Lordshill 10K on the 30th and possibly another Lakeside 5K. Be good to fit in some steady running interspersed with a few key quality sessions and to attempt nailing those in the meantime! Need to get that structured discipline back!

Edited: 05/06/2013 at 13:44
05/06/2013 at 14:01

WJH, as long as noone gets the idea to get their mate to run with a few chips on to qualify them for the london marathon or something!

Bob, one guy once mailed, a bit annoyed he had to "wade" through all the non running chat on my thread to get the sessions. Oh, sorry mate for inconvencing!

Duck, that track vid looks interesting, will check it out later

05/06/2013 at 15:06

Fantastic time Duck!... and excellent pacing. You made it look like a jog!

Solid 5K WJK, given the background. I could do with some structured discipline too.

5.5M for me today at 8:40/m. Just ran it easy and felt a lot better than I did when doing the identical run on Monday (9:07/m). Sole of foot was stiff at times but no pain ... and okay now. Quite pleased to find that I'm not nearly as unfit as I expected... maybe forcing that bike to/from work as been worthwhile after all. Talking of bikes ... somehow managed to buckle my back wheel yesterday - had to collect my kids before 6pm, so was forced to unclip the back brake and cycle the remaining 5 miles anyway. In the end it was fine.

05/06/2013 at 19:40

Well done Duck. You showed good restraint at the start. Particularly liked the shout of "Come on Duck!"

Glad to hear there's no pain Dan. Hope a back wheel isn't too costly. My little cousin smashed his shiny  carbon wheel into a wall a while back and broke it in half - he said he had a choice of bike vs wall or him vs car!

05/06/2013 at 22:36

WJH Love a story with a happy ending! Pleased you got your time. And keep your waffle coming please - I enjoy it even if nobody else does! Jebus though - you're really blitzing yourself with the racing and time trials at the moment. Worn out just thinking about it!

Duck - Very nice running there indeed - looked strong and in control throughout. You'll have to get back to us sooner if you don't want some stalking to occur.  Was genuinely interested to see how you'd done, though rather stumbled across it on Fetch in the end. Loved the comment at the end of Lap 2 I think it was. 'They're bunching up behind you, Tarzan!' 

Dan - Top news on the running, commiserations on the bike!

Stevie - Love it. What a donk!

DT / CB - Thanks, and yes, whilst I might try to fit in a tempo session with the quicker lads at some point if I can fit it round other training, most of the club runs will need to be in the 8:00 to 8:30 mile bracket I reckon - don't want to end up with a Friday like you had there DT...sounds horrendous!

Right. Big interval session tonight targeted at the 10k in 3 weeks. Plan was 5 x 1 miles at 6:46 pace off 3 minute recoveries. 6:46 as that's the pace I'll need in the race for the 42:00 I'm after.

Felt crap and uncoordinated in the warm up getting down to the Trent, and decided there was no way I was pulling this off...but would have a crack anyway. Had the boost of a cute little kid with his Dad calling out, 'You're doin' good runnin'!' which made me smile just as I was getting into the first rep, and looking at my watch realised I was doing under 6:10 pace, and thought whilst he was right I better back off a bit here! 

Anyway, second rep was the toughest by a distance as whilst there was generally light winds, there was still a strong headwind into my face as I went out along the Holme Pierrepont rowing lake. Never seems to stop blowing down there!

The reps came out at 6:43, 6:50, 6:45, 6:42 and 6:42, with an average of 3:07 recoveries. 

Pretty intense by the last half mile of the final rep, but felt strong and think I held pretty good form throughout - reckon that some of the rather quicker 1k and considerably quicker 800m intervals I've been doing recently really helped with making the pace feel easier overall.

Another wall of text for you all to wade through (  ), but I'm pretty pleased with that!

06/06/2013 at 10:22

Great session Bob.

I ran round HPP rowing lake once as a hungover chubby non running teenager! At least it woke me up so the dunking I got on the slalom course later (air temp around 1 degree, I remember having to chip my sponge out of my boat as it was frozen in) wasn't so much of a shock!

06/06/2013 at 10:39

Good news on the race result WJH-Phew!

Duck- Great mile run-what scottish record was it you were just short of-U23 or something? Re the shoes i am moving between gt2170s and gel cumulus. I have read that over pronating shoes only really assist people that wildly over pronate. I am finding though that asics seem to have widened their sizes and i am moving about a lot in them. Dont know whether to drop  half size or just try a different make.

Good intervals bob, fairly consistent timings.

Hoping to get a tempo in later on treadmill. work function from 5 so hoping to slope off about 7.30 as have the car and cannot indulge in the free bar. Told my wife I will be home at 10ish so that should give me some time and i will just have to live with my fibs

07/06/2013 at 10:07

Things slowed here - everyone enjoying the sun?

Bowdon 5k last night. It was hot!! 1st mile went well (6:50 by my Garmin, so prob about 6:40!) at 1.25 miles though I realised that I wasn't going to keep this up and so dropped to a tempo pace, slowly increasing through the rest of the race. Finished with 22:16, so 5k at 10k pace.

In hindsight I'd had a tough week at work, running around trying to sort out a residential, and not sleeping so well. Yesterday my body was doing strange things (explosive toilet visits, including one 10 mins before the start!) So racing was probably not the best idea.

A nice 3.5 miles in the sun this morning, and as yeasterday's effort wasn't full on I should be able to churn out a decent LT pace at parkrun on Saturday.

07/06/2013 at 11:27

CB ... sounded like you did pretty well considering the heat, guts and work schedule!

So, 3rd 5.5M run of the week for me ... same route each time, all run at easy (PE). Pace went 9:07 on Monday, 8:40/m Wednesday and 8:17/m. Pleased with that ... expected the first few weeks to be more a struggle. Foot not perfect but managable. Oh, and bike is back in action! 

My son ran a tactically disasterous 1500m yesterday in 5:12 ... first three 400s went 71s, 85s, 90s ... then, despite obviously being knackered from setting off at 4:26 pace for the first 400, he started his final big push at 300m, which lasted the length of the back straight before ending in a sea of lactate. It was a great lesson in what not to do (I think I will show him Duck's 1 mile video) . Still jealous of the time though.

07/06/2013 at 11:56

Anyone racing at the weekend? Humber Bridge 10K for me on Sunday. Hoping it isn't too windy as its going to be very exposed up there!

Dan – Good news on the recovery. I always find it a real struggle when I first come back so sounds positive that you feel ok.

Chubby – Sounds like a reasonable result all things considered. I pretty much forget about PBs over summer as I don’t run well in the heat.

A cutback week for me so its been fairly light on the mileage. I did do a session of 6X800 last night off 90 sec recoveries. I thought 6 reps would make a relatively easy session but I was certainly feeling it on the last couple of reps.

I’ve also been to the fizz regarding my sore foot. I was a bit worried as he examined it for a stress fracture but he seems pretty confident it isn’t that (surely it would be painful to run on and not just mild discomfort if this was the case?)  He taped it up and said continue as usual. We are reassessing on Monday to see how things are. Hopefully something minor that won’t cause much trouble.

07/06/2013 at 12:27


CB - A mate of mine was telling me that they farked up the design of the rowing lake at HP which is why it funnels the wind so badly down there. Not sure of the technical details behind it, but despite your bravery, I'd take the wind over the dunking you mention! Sounds like a sensible approach to the 5k last night - nicely done, and enjoy your parkrun in the morning.

DT - I found the same with the Asics I tried when I bought my Adidas the other week. The Adidas were the only shoes I tried in fact that felt anything like snug enough on the width. Quite happy with them so far, particularly for training, though for races, I would like to progress to something closer to a racing flat sooner rather than later - these do a feel a bit too cushiony and unresponsive at times. I'd rather play it safe for now though.

Dr D - Excellent progress in a short space of time - sounds very promising! Good news on the bike too. And yes, tidy 1500 time from Dr D Jr, particularly given the horrendous splits - must have some guts to have toughed it out for a 5:12!

Mr V - Good luck on Sunday, and hope the foot stands up ok. I'm racing a local 7 miler on Sunday - the Hickling Corn Dolly twee! Very low key (96 runners last year) and attached to a village fair so will make a day of it with the family. Not expecting much as haven't tapered at all, has been a pretty big training week in fact, and will be hot on the heels of tomorrow's cricket. Probably ought to tempo it really, but I doubt that'll happen once the competitive juices start flowing! 

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