The Middle Ground

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10/06/2013 at 10:54

DT - Well done on the parkrun - thoroughly decent first effort at it...particularly with a streaming cold round the corner. 

Velloo - Did a first 5 miler the other week myself, and really liked the distance too. Nicely bridges the gap between the crash, bang, wallop and done of the 5k and psychologically felt easier to keep pushing harder and longer than for the additional 1.2 miles of a 10k. I actually matched the pace of my 5k PB across the 5 miles - suggests the 5k probably needs bringing down, but also that the 5 mile distance hit a bit of a sweet spot on my training to date.

Duck - Top stuff in the Aberdeen mile - 4.54! Yowser! 5 minutes is a great barrier to break, and should put you inside the top 80 or so in the country on the road over the distance this year looking at the RB rankings? Well done anyway.

CB - A nice pair of 5k / parkrun efforts in under 48 hours there.

Dr D - Good training run for you yesterday, and impressive result from 'the boy'!

Pleasant day out at Hickling Country Fair, but had a bit of a tough old time of it in the 7 miler...which as per some reports / GPS recordings I'd picked up from previous years was actually 7.2 miles, with the mile markers being anything between 1.1 and little more than 0.8 miles apart! Slightly stronger field than I was expecting with a large contingent of Ivanhoe Runners from my old home town of Ashby.

All told this took me up to over 32 total miles in under 6 days between Monday night and Sunday morning, and also throwing in a game of cricket the previous day (including leather chasing for 255 in the field!) made it comfortably my biggest / toughest week to date. Could feel all of that in the legs as soon as the race was underway with the glutes feeling particularly tight. Set off at sub-7:00 mile pace for the first couple of miles, but then got passed by a group that had been sitting on my shoulder for a mile or so, and then spent the rest of the 'race' in not so splendid isolation until the last half mile or so when a single Ivanhoe runner came through strongly as I died on my arse. My one concerted effort to get back in touch with the group in front over the previous 4 miles was cut short by the one proper climb of the course - hills continuing to be my achilles heel. There was a couple of sections of heavily rutted grass and a handful of closed towpath gate chicanes to negotiate, but clocked myself going through 10k (6.2 miles) in around 44:15, just under 40 seconds outside my 10k PB, and came across the line in 51:31 somewhere between 15th and 20th I think of the 100 or so runners. As one measure of my compromised performance, I noticed on Fetch that there was a guy I'd finished 2 seconds and 18 seconds ahead of respectively in my previous parkrun and 5 mile race who trounced me by 44 seconds on this occasion!

Still, a decent run out all the same, with mile splits probably somewhere just either side of approximate LT pace, and there's no more cricket or racing now until the 10k I'm targeting on the 25th. Will ensure I'm nicely tapered for that one...

10/06/2013 at 11:57

Boo! Official results now through. My streak of all previous 15 races this year improving my RB handicap has (narrowly) come to an end. 

(Easy to do when you're just starting out obviously...better get used to it I guess!

N.B. Turns out I was actually 26th - Mrs BBB's estimation was not particularly accurate! 

Edited: 10/06/2013 at 11:58
10/06/2013 at 12:12

Its more than manflu, its so bad i am going to work from home this afternoon!

Still a good run bob. I had that from about sept-march, every run i did was a scorer! I have also had my wife count me in as 3rd in a race (there was a 5k also happening) only find i was 9th!


10/06/2013 at 13:35

Good Parkrun debut DT and provides a target to beat for the next time. Hope you feel better soon.

Sounds like a decent run out Bob on top of a challenging week! Certainly encouraging that you wern't a million miles away from your 10k PB in the time you passed through that distance either!

Solid efforts there with the 5k/Parkrun CB! Hope things go well up the Lake District!

Seen the video for the Fetch mile now Duck...great technique and form and it really is something seeing that one runner shoot off in the first lap! And well done on sub 5 minute mile...and agree in that you looked like you had a lot more in the tank in that video!

Sounds like a strong effort with the 5 miler Velloo! Sub 31 on a fast flat course should be possible? Has P & D training started for you now?

South Downs Marathon Relay went well on Saturday with my team finishing in 7th place overall (6th male team) with a final time of 3:11:12. For more of a social minded club, our team out of 4 entered was fairly strong in terms of the runners we had available. One of our clubs strongest and most consistent runners ran the 1st leg which left me starting the 2nd in a healthy 5th place. The 2nd leg start takes in a large hill for almost a mile which was ran in a solid 8:34 pace (was pleasing to overtake a few near the top). The next 3 miles or so were more about mild undulations along a gravel/concrete path of the South Downs Way with splits coming out as 6:32, 7:01 and 6:47. The last mile or so of the leg was downhill with the last mile coming out at 5:42 with the pace closer to 5:00m/m over the 2nd half of this mile as the downward decent continued. The right hamstring was a little tight after this and the heel sore later that evening as a result of sustaining that sort of pace combined with the road surface in this part of the course underfoot.  Very pleased with how the leg went overall and managed to gain a position taking us up to 4th at that point with just one runner passing me.

It was just a shame not to beat one of the local clubs who had a number of very strong runners missing on the day particularly since they have this swagger about them, this summed up at the end of my leg with one of our former runners bantering about how good they are and how he’d pass us on the 4th leg. Unfortunately, they overtook us in the 3rd leg. Will just have to target a few of their runners in some future races instead!

Edited: 10/06/2013 at 13:39
10/06/2013 at 14:42

Duck – Well done. You’ve got to be happy with that time!

DT – A cold can kill your race pace so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. 5Ks definitely take practice to get right as well.

BOB – A solid effort there. Those kind of races are more about the enjoyment than the time anyway.

WJH – I’m a big fan of relay events. Sounds like put in a strong run as well. Shame you couldn’t beat the cocky club though!

Humber Bridge 10K for me yesterday. Surprisingly tough little course which was rather hilly and had a fierce head wind on the 2nd half, particularly coming back across the bridge. Didn’t help that I rather overindulged on the cider the previous night either! So all things considered I was happy enough with 37.33.  

10/06/2013 at 15:12

Well done MrV - sure it all counted as extra fuel! 

5.5M again for me today ... 8:53/m at 70% maxHR. Plus 10M cycling.

10/06/2013 at 20:19

WJH good run in the relay! You'll have to plan a revenge race. P&D starts at the end of the month, really looking forward to it as I like the discipline of a plan. 

Mr V well done on the 10K, running with a hangover in the heat ouch!

BBB defintely still a good performance - have you won those earphones yet?

no running for me today, should do some strength work and stop arsing about on the laptop...

10/06/2013 at 20:25

Thanks everyone. It's been a bit frustrating recently with a lack of race opportunities but it's great to see the work paying off. FWIW 4:54 predicts 9:40 for 3k (might aim for this over winter) and 17:01 for 5k (perhaps a bit longer but mid-low17:xx isn't out of the question I think). 

DT - 4:54 as of Saturday 

Dan, how's the pace:hr ratio looking right now?

Bob, 4:54 puts me 8th U23 this year and joint 85th overall in the UK. 

Difficult to run hard on your own. 7 miles is an odd distance! Well run all the same.

WJH, nice run too. As for you Mr V.

So a bit of an update regarding the mile.

Not long after we got the times through in an email - nice and quick. One thing - I had been given 4:50 by the organisers, and speaking to a fair few after many seem to have been given times a good 4-5s faster than they clocked themselves. However, some only are 1-2s faster. 

Didn't expect this result to stand but lo and behold it was in the paper today, with my time still being 4:50. I'm a bit skeptical about this, however The Garmin Argument says that I averaged 4:48/m according to my watch, and I measured the course at 1.02M - which is consistent with what I've heard from others. Given Garmins aren't 100% accurate, at the time I accepted it was one of those things and assumed that it was my watch that was wrong.

So either they've measured the course wrong and were timing from elsewhere, the stopwatch is wrong, or I somehow managed to find 4 extra seconds. Until this is all cleared up and verified I'm sticking with 4:54. I'll take 4:50 if it's given, but I'm wary. 

Edited: 10/06/2013 at 20:26
11/06/2013 at 10:11

Strange one Duck ... 4s is a lot. Frustrating when these things happen.

RE: current pace:hr ratio - very early days as it's only been 6 runs total so far, with only 2 runs using the HRM. The 9M hilly run was 10/m at 68% maxHR while the 5.5M was at 8:53/m at 70% maxHR ... resting HR yesterday was 48 bpm. All of this tells me that I'm not as disasterously unfit as I thought I'd be ... but nevertheless have a long way to go.

11/06/2013 at 14:54

Mile is on PO10.... 4:50. As 1MNAD. 

The reason is on the results

"Senior race times not eligible for rankings due to following message from organisers "NB: The stop watch failed at the start of the race. We have estimated the time it took to get the stop watch to work to 5 seconds and have allocated the time based on this. If you have a discrepancy with the time you have for the Union Street Mile, please let me know and we will re-evaluate the results"

Not impressed.

11/06/2013 at 15:10

11/06/2013 at 17:57

"The" stopwatch failed at the start...I would have thought there would be several! Not impressed either! Just have to go and do another one, Duck!

11/06/2013 at 22:59

Duck that's very annoying. 

There's a 1 miler on 26th June if you happen to be in Edinburgh

12/06/2013 at 09:41

WJH - Well done with the relay on Saturday - sounds like a strong run from you, hope the hammy and heel are ok now. That sort of event appeals to me, will enjoy getting stuck into something like that once I get myself properly involved in club stuff.

Decent 10k from you, Mr V despite the influence of the cider!

Velloo - no earphones, no! Both the racing and the improvements were too regular for any one month to stand out enough. Bigger picture shows that the RB handicap did halve between the turn of the year and the end of May though - 19.0 to 9.5. Can't really grumble at that I suppose.

Duck - Gutted for you there.  Hope it doesn't dishearten you too much. Get yourself back out there and hammer another.

Dr D - More solid work from you, and good progress through the easy paces. Have you got a time frame in mind for getting back into some quality work?

Just an easy 4 miles for me on Monday evening after Sunday morning's race so far this week. Legs felt no worse, and probably better, than they had done in the race itself which probably just underlines the point that I couldn't drag anything out of them on Sunday.

Having another crack tonight at a slightly revised version of a half mile intervals session that Simon worked out for me recently. Using statute measurements on the watch, but is as near as dammit 5 x 800m repeats with 240m (rather than timed) recoveries. Been having trouble doing the early recoveries slowly enough in interval work, so will force myself to walk the very start of the recoveries before picking it back up to a jog ASAP. Aiming for 3:05 on the half mile repeats.

12/06/2013 at 09:43

Duck- That is a nightmare. As alehouse says, complete incompetance to rely on one watch starting!

Mr V- I think i would also be happy with a 37 min 10k based on cider prep

Wjh- Some good relay paces there as well.

Cough/cold is still killing my week. Against the wifes wishes however i did a track session on Monday night as i had pre agreed to meet someone there and didnt have a number to cancel. Did 4 sets of 4x300 taking in turns with the 100 m walk back between reps and a 400m between sets. All came in between about 54-57 secs. Pleased with that, though probably did not assist recovery.

Due to run a 12k multi terrain race tonight which is organised by my club and part of the midweek summer series. Its a fairly meaty race and has a rating of 5.0 on RB. Whilst i am feeling better today i dont think i will do it any justice so think i will settle for an easy 8-10 miles on own

12/06/2013 at 10:29

DT19 ... take care of that cough. Colds are one thing, but coughs and running don't marry well, especially fast running.

Big_Bad_Bob wrote (see)

Dr D - More solid work from you, and good progress through the easy paces. Have you got a time frame in mind for getting back into some quality work?

I will start to incorporate some sub-LT work (80-82% maxHR) next week. Not planning to do anything faster for a few months ... need to build a good base.

Good luck with the 1/2 M repeats.


12/06/2013 at 12:11

Duck – How frustrating. Particularly annoying due to the distance as 5 seconds over a 10k wouldn’t be such a big deal.

DT – As Dan says take it easy, pushing yourself when ill is rarely a good idea. Wise decision to dodge the race I think.

Dan – Is it Chester mara you are building towards?

4X 1 mile for me last with 2 mins recovery. Hard work with the usual town moor gale but legs felt ok given Sunday’s race and the fact that Mondays easy run wasn’t as easy as it might have been. I find 1 mile reps a much less painful session than 400s or 800s. Probably means I need to work on them more.

I keep meaning to go along and try out a different club near me but their sessions always look hardcore. This week they’ve had 6x1 mile and a session including 2 miles of tempo sandwiched around 15 x400

12/06/2013 at 12:58

Yep, really frustrating. Alehouse's point is very valid, and also if they realised instantly the stopwatch had failed why didn't they call a false start and get us to start again?

FWIW I am going to stick with 4:54 as my time. 4:50 would be great but I just can't be sure how accurate it is anymore. Still, can't keep me down and I've been at the track the last 2 days for back to back sessions.

Yesterday was 200/150/100 flat out w/16'00 rec after the 200 and 11'00 after the 150 (was meant to be 20 & 15 but I couldn't be buggered standing around anymore than I already was). 

Ran 25.2 , 18.9, 12.9 into a bit of a headwind. FWIW my 200 pb is 25.55 and my 150 is 19.4! 

Then today - 600/600/300 w/12'00 rec. 97.0, 95.2, 41.5. The 600s felt great, I do really think I am approaching some great 800 form now. I could have run a few more seconds quicker in the second 600 and still not been flat out (went through 400 in 63). Don't think I'm too far from 2:04 now, from mid-July onwards I am (hopefully) going to be racing every weekend so by the time the season comes to a close I should have run some good times. 

12/06/2013 at 13:02

Bob, I did 600/500/400/300 all well under 5:00/m pace a few months ago w/jog recoveries. My first recovery was under 7:00/m pace! It's difficult to keep them slow to begin with, walking sounds like a good plan.

Mr V, what kind of splits are you hitting for 6*1M? I would actually suggest the opposite, feeling good on mile reps probably means you're quite fit in that area but shorter stuff is difficult because you're not used to turning over at that speed.

Those sessions sound brutal. 

12/06/2013 at 13:39

Duck - sorry to hear of your time being invalid! Makes me realise how lucky I was to have my time added retrospectively for the mile race the other week with the lost chip ultimately being my own fault! However, with the form you are in...I remember your 5k PB is just under 18 minutes? Well if you are talking of low 17:XX ambitions now and with those sessions you are doing, there is bound to be some big PB smashing just round the corner!

Mr V - as Duck says, 2 mile tempo sandwiched between 15x400 sounds brutal and torterous just reading it alone!  Well done on the Humber 10k...sounds an interesting race and can certainly imagine it being very windy along there!  As for the cocky club...certainly not meaning to generalise everyone (and people I don't know) and there are one or two there who I have spoken to who are very decent, even the one who used to be in our club I can get along's just when it comes to the racing, they are absolutely everywhere like some sort of army! Saturday's wind up of my one team mate running the 4th leg did no favours with my mindset though!

Bob - good luck with the session later! 3:05-3:15 is the pace I had for my first ever set just after Christmas when I did 8 reps! I remember the legs turning to jelly after the 6th rep! Will be interesting to see what splits you end up having!

Good to see the runs becoming more frequent now Dan and that the fitness hasn't suffered as much as you thought it might!

DT - last time I had a cold/virus I remember running a surprisingly solid tempo run a few days after it some ways having a cold can conversely allow you to rest and feel even fresher with the next fitness push! I found that back in November anyway!

I thought it was a brutal session last night with a few club mates along a field close to the seafront until reading Mr V's session...

12x400 with 90 second recoveries ( roughly 1 mile w/u and 1 mile w/d). Fastest was the 3rd in 79 seconds which was too fast (5:18 m/m pace) and the slowest being the 9th in 85 seconds (5:41 m/m pace). Overall they averaged out at about 82/83 seconds or so (5:31 m/m pace). Apart from the slightly varied pacing with some of them, I was happy to have ended the last rep in 82 seconds (5:30 m/m) thereby matching the overall average pace of the session. Also the first time having tackled this specific workout so gives something to build on for next time!

Edited: 12/06/2013 at 13:43
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