The Middle Ground

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26/06/2013 at 09:39

Alehouse - great news on the health front!! .... but 1400 papers sounds painful!

BBB ... a 42:41 10K is equivalent to a 20:33 5K according to McM, so not to be sniffed at. Not improving since the end of May is no big deal (it was only a few weeks ago!) ... especially if you know the mileage has been so low. Run to work, run to cricket, run, run run ... lots of slow miles = big base.

Things progressing here... Sunday: 11.6M run; Monday 10M bike, 5.5M run; Tuesday 10M bike, 7.6M run. The latter included 5.25M at 83% maxHR as my first post-injury foray into sub-lactate territory (pace was 7:50/m, so a good 40s/m off where I've been before at that HR). Today is another 10M bike and 5.5M run.

 

Edited: 26/06/2013 at 09:41
26/06/2013 at 10:36

Alehouse- Didnt realise you had been through all that recently. Great result for you yesterday.

Bob- Great race report as always! I think you are being somewhat hard on yourself, a pb is progress. The end of may was only 3 weeks ago.

Dan- good progress there, looks like you are building things up well.

I did club training last night, covered 9.4 miles with 8 x 3 mins in the middle going a bit multi terrain. I think i am still hanging on to the effects of that cough. Really struggled to breathe properly on the uphills. Does not bode well for a very nasty and hilly 10k on saturday. Managed to get on the bike this morning, so 14 miles climb to work, but 14 miles downhill home later. Think a light 6-8 miles tomorrow, then rest for saturday evening.

So the calf problem has taken an odd twist. Much of the pain (and there has been a lot the last few days) has not been in the sore point but all up the outside from probably over compensating. Anyway, night two training in my new daps and i was expecting to be in some pain once i settled down last night and this morning. Bizarrely though, absolutely nominal, barely noticeable pain. Almost like i have not run in a week. I have spent the last 2 days wearing a calf support which might have helped. However when you think i have probably just done my heaviest consecutive mileage i can recall (8 sat, 12 sun, 6 mon- inc 25 min tempo and 9.4 last night with intervals) i was expecting to be suffering. I am beginning to think its the footwear. My old gt's had been my sole shoe since november and have done circa 40 per week maybe 6 months. These new ones are the bst running shoes i have ever ran in. As alehouse suggests, i think i will just buy another pair now and alternate them each day.

 

26/06/2013 at 12:31

Cheers, chaps. You’re probably right, I’m just hungry to progress. I felt this was a realistic target, but have to allow for the holes in my training I’ve acknowledged.

Some strong looking combined mileage from you there, Dr D and good news on the calf, DT – hope the cough clears properly for you before Saturday.

Official results from last night out now. Time revised up to 42:42 in the end. As I’m a 42yo, a PB of 42:42 is something PRF would probably approve of!

70th of 335 on the night.
31st of 108 male veterans.
22nd of 60 in the V40 category.

Not three bad in a fairly strong field I suppose, has got the RB Handicap moving in the right direction again, and does give me a chance to update the below with another small improvement - up from 67.16% for the 5 miler.

 

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (March - June 2013)

Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

82.02% PhilPub (Marathon, 2:35:54, April)
80.98% Velloo (5k 18:53 May)

79.47% Simon (800, 2:08.8, May)
77.35% Wardi (5K 19:52 March)
76.67% Duck (400m, 56.64, May)
73.23% MrV (5K, 17:37, June)
70.16% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:22, April)

69.22% DT19 (HM, 1.27.07, March)
68.76% WJH (5M 30:55, May)
67.54%, BBB (10k, 42:42, June)

 

Edited: 26/06/2013 at 12:32
26/06/2013 at 13:35

BBB: don't beat yourself up about last night! You are still improving and I would not have expected much faster, to be honest: get that 5k time nearer to 20 minutes! And build a bigger base as DrDan suggests. Run around the house whilst you are doing the daily chores!

Suspect that the WAVA list has been truncated: either that or CB and myself have been relegated to another thread! Time I ran something: I will be kicked off shortly any way.

WJH
26/06/2013 at 13:39

Well done Bob - sounds like you did pretty well to me! It's another PB to add to the ever increasing collection!  You are definitely being hard on yourself when you consider the bigger picture of the improvements you have made. I remember when you started posting on here when PRF outlined his progress of Parkrun times over a 2/3 year period which highlighted periods where the times plateaued out (where is he, Curly, BR, Dash, etc by the way to name a few ...that's on another subject totally mind but hope all are ok). Like the other's have said, there is no point comparing against a 5 mile race which was only about 3 weeks ago. If anything, it's good to get PBs in line over a range of distances before pushing on. Maybe some longer term targets are needed to keep up the (very apparent) motivation! Maybe an autumn 10 miler/half marathon? Who knows! Could provide a new focus following the cricket season! 

Good to see some solid training for you there Dan. How is the foot now, any niggles at all or has it completely cleared up?

Good news with the prostate check up there Alehouse and look forward to seeing more training/Parkrun progress over the months ahead! Interesting thoughts on the running shoes too...I only have one pair (money and all that unfortunately combined with other hobbies limits my spending capabilities). Certainly need to look into this though having read about alternating pairs on this thread a fair few months back now I think.

Good training from you DT - hopefully the calf problem will clear up...maybe you need to ease up on some of the quality side of things to let the after effects of the cough ease up and to allow the calf issue to properly sort itself (if it arises again that is!).

CB - love Alton Towers...not in the slightest bit jealous!  Although will be going up there later this year for Halloween! Have done this before and it's great. More good training and recent racing from you too and seems like you are enjoying things again.

Solid tempo racing Mr V! Would be grateful of that time on Sunday's Lordshill 10k! Well done on the job situation by way!

Some good track racing by you too Simon - season is far from over by the looks of things after all if you are matching your PB! And Duck - solid Parkrun performance from you too...allbeit without the specific training for it more recently. You are on fire at the shorter stuff you have rightly been focusing on.

Hi JASL - testing your fitness at a Parkrun sounds like a good start as does allowing a bit of training for it beforehand! Good to see you are enjoying the steady running too Andrew D.

Rest day today...will try Bob/Simon's session of 5X400 tomorrow for sharpening up for Sunday's 10k. Will also do a Parkrun with the gf on Saturday at a very easy pace in preparation. Not expecting a PB having plateaued myself recently...as for all this weight talk! That is something which is still very much a weakness that needs addressing!

Edited: 26/06/2013 at 13:47
WJH
26/06/2013 at 14:01

BBB - I will only say the same as the others already. A PB is a PB and you're continually improving which is what it's all about. You should be celebrating 

Physio went well last night. It's now 8 week's since the operation and he's very impressed with the recovery. I've got some new exercises to focus on tortional strengthening, and another 2 weeks of easy running then he thinks I can re-introduce some speedwork. Nearer the time I'm sure I'll ask for some suggestions from this thread  I must say easy running can get a bit boring!

7 mile trail run (easy) for me last night. Ended up being a bit longer than I expected as the bridle way I planned to take was closed so had to do an extra loop home!

26/06/2013 at 15:32

DT ... 14 miles climb to work sounds tough - but then again I'm rubbish on a bike. Don't over do it with the niggles and chest issues. Better to be 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained, as a certain Maltese coach said.

WJH - 5X400 . I'm so far away from any fast stuff at the moment. RE: the foot ... I do feel a stiffness there at various points in the day but am confident that it's probably scar tissue or something, as I'm not suffering ill effects when running. I'm cautious about running hard though ... it was throwing in an out-of-the-blue 5K race during base training that kicked the whole issue off in the first place.

My lunchtime 5.5M turned into a 7.25M ... nice and easy at 69% maxHR.

Fixed part of the WAVA League (found an old one with some March races)...

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (March - June 2013)

Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

82.02% PhilPub (Marathon, 2:35:54, April)
80.98% Velloo (5K 18:53 May)

79.83% PRF (5K, 17:54, March)
79.47% Simon (800m, 2:08.8, May)
77.35% Wardi (5K 19:52 March)
76.67% Duck (400m, 56.64, May)
73.23% MrV (5K, 17:37, June)
70.16% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:22, April)

69.22% DT19 (HM, 1.27.07, March)
68.82% Young Pup (5K, 19:59 March)
68.76% WJH (5M 30:55, May)
67.54%, BBB (10k, 42:42, June)

57.16% Alehouse (5K 27:49 March)

Edited: 26/06/2013 at 15:34
26/06/2013 at 18:24

Glad to hear the good news, alehouse.
    
DT, good news on the calf front. It's strange how niggles sometimes just clear up so quickly. You should definitely try and rotate running shoes as alehouse suggests. I find that difficult at the moment since I love my Kinvaras so much I want to wear them all the time.

Looks like a decent week, Dan.

Bob, May was only the other day! And a 42:41 beats a 31:07 according to age grading tables. Still lots of improvement to come just by upping the mileage.

WJH, think positive. It's harder to get a PB when you don't expect one.

I bet Dash is lurking. Ratzer tends to pop up when custard is mentioned.

26/06/2013 at 18:45

Just back from the phys: Achilles op leg is now officially stronger than the "good" one. But that's not why I'm posting! She agrees completely with rotating shoes...and would even go as far as to say that they should be different models so that everything (foot/ankle/calf etc) are all worked in a slightly different way... avoiding repetitive strain, effectively.

26/06/2013 at 20:49

Brief check in before going back to reports. No running going on - will get out tomorrow morning, probably 6 miles gentle with some strides.

Alton Towers was mentally busy, didn't get on much but did formulate plans for next year's trip!

BBB sounds bloody good to me. Be happy with a PB! There's more to come, but enjoy for now, else what's the point!

Alehouse great news on the achilles.

Still off the bottom of the WAVA table. Hopefully a Sale Sizzler will see me right next week!

26/06/2013 at 20:55

See you  next Thursday CB! I'm marshalling!

26/06/2013 at 21:03

on the shoe front, that's interesting and provides a dilemma now as the new asics are sooo good and on the mark, I don't really want to start again. I assume then I need the same type of support shoe but perhaps a brooks or mizuno then.

Dan-the cycle in is a killer, and often hard to bring myself around to doing it when lying comfortably in bed. The cycle home though is great, 3-4 minutes quicker.

26/06/2013 at 23:11

Oops - sorry about the WAVA table, chaps. Blame Duckinator the Truncator! Just went back and found the most recent post with it in, and think he perhaps ran out of characters to be fair. CB still missing - will update below.

Alehouse - Yes, I think sub-10k will have to be the focus for the rest of the summer. I did suggest this might happen before the cricket season started and that I might have to focus on 5k due to compromised mileage. Lost sight of that a bit with the big 10k PB at Leicester, and very pleasing 5 mile performance last month. Would like to get the mileage up again now, but could be tricky with both the cricket and so much (too much) racing. It's a short season though and a long time to next spring, so I'm determined to enjoy the summer racing particularly having just joined a club (albeit at mainly shorter distances from here perhaps) and then concentrate on an autumn half (WJH - yep, about to sign up for the Robin Hood HM) and the cross country season to really get the base built for next year. Sub-20 is the 5k target by the end of the season, with a few to go at, starting tomorrow night, one in July, and two at the back end of August. Simon - yep, small WAVA improvement last night, will be looking for another tomorrow - need 20:30 or better according to Mr Grubb. 

Just a 2.5 mile recovery run on grass tonight (in different shoes you'll be pleased to hear, Alehouse as per your above comments!) at about 9m/mile pace, to loosen up some very stiff legs (calves in particular) with just a short burst of strides to make sure the range of motion was ok - it was, and the tightness has eased substantially - particularly since Mrs BBB was let loose on the calves...wince.

WJH - Did you mean 5 x 400? It's 5 x 800 that I've been doing. Good luck with it anyway. And yep, I remember the post from PRF well - very helpful really in setting expectations of slowing progress...not that you'd notice it had sunk in from my reaction to last night!

JASL - Good news.

Alehouse - Two big boosts for you in the last 24 hours or so - happy days! 

CB - You're right - and I am still happy with the PB, and delighted with progress overall, just slightly disappointed it wasn't more last night after setting a high bar. Hopefully you'll see another leap back towards your best at Sale next week too.

26/06/2013 at 23:48

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (March - June 2013)

Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

82.02% PhilPub (Marathon, 2:35:54, April)
80.98% Velloo (5k 18:53 May)

79.83% PRF (5K, 17:54, March)
79.47% Simon (800, 2:08.8, May)
77.35% Wardi (5K 19:52 March)
76.67% Duck (400m, 56.64, May)
73.23% MrV (5K, 17:37, June)
70.16% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:22, April)

69.22% DT19 (HM, 1.27.07, March)
68.82% Young Pup (5K, 19:59 March)
68.76% WJH (5M 30:55, May)
67.54% BBB (10k, 42:42, June)
62.34% CB (5K 21:25)

57.16% Alehouse (5K 27:49 March)

 

Think we're up to date now? 

Pretty sure Dash had something at Lincoln that belonged in the 70% bracket but never made it into the league table though. Come along, Mr Riprod - time to delurk!

Pittsy and iower too - probably similar for them - they've also gone AWOL on top of the other names mentioned.

27/06/2013 at 09:45

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (March - June 2013)

Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

 

85.38% robT (5k, 17.00, Jun)

82.02% PhilPub (Marathon, 2:35:54, April)

80.98% Velloo (5k 18:53 May)

79.83% PRF (5K, 17:54, March)
79.47% Simon (800, 2:08.8, May)
77.35% Wardi (5K 19:52 March)
76.67% Duck (400m, 56.64, May)
73.23% MrV (5K, 17:37, June)
70.16% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:22, April)

69.22% DT19 (HM, 1.27.07, March)
68.82% Young Pup (5K, 19:59 March)
68.76% WJH (5M 30:55, May)
67.54% BBB (10k, 42:42, June)
62.34% CB (5K 21:25)

57.16% Alehouse (5K 27:49 March)

De-Lurking back racing now raced first 5k since Nov 3rd couple of weeks ago thought I'd update WAVA!

Just coming to end of 13th week of soild block of training after severe calf issues for nearly 5 months inroduced more consistent speed work into program w/c 16th June so hope times will continue to improve for the rest of the year.

I'm way behind what is going on on thread but suffice to say alot of new names to me on here and familiar ones not posting? hope all are ok and training racing well

 

27/06/2013 at 10:05

(format tidy-up) ... yep, lots of the old regulars are awol.

MIDDLE GROUND WAVA LEAGUE (March - June 2013)
Calculator here: http://www.howardgrubb.co.uk/athletics/wmalookup06.html

85.38% robT (5K, 17.00, Jun)
82.02% PhilPub (Marathon, 2:35:54, April)
80.98% Velloo (5K, 18:53 May)

79.83% PRF (5K, 17:54, March)
79.47% Simon (800, 2:08.8, May)
77.35% Wardi (5K, 19:52 March)
76.67% Duck (400m, 56.64, May)
73.23% MrV (5K, 17:37, June)
70.16% Dr.Dan (5K, 20:22, April)

69.22% DT19 (HM, 1.27.07, March)
68.82% Young Pup (5K, 19:59 March)
68.76% WJH (5M 30:55, May)
67.54% BBB (10K, 42:42, June)
62.34% CB (5K 21:25, Month?)

57.16% Alehouse (5K 27:49 March)

 

27/06/2013 at 13:49

Bob, I've been struggling again mate so just trying to re-mojo. 

Giving up a racing for the time being but will do the  occasional parkrun.

27/06/2013 at 13:49

I'm not Italian by the way! 

27/06/2013 at 20:34

Ha! Mama Mia! Sorry to hear you've given up a racing, Dash. Good to hear from you though, hope you find that missing mojo soon.

Rob - Hello. I'll be one of those new faces. That's some WAVA you're sporting there! 

Right, pleasantries out the way...

...AAAAAAGHHHH!

Ran as well as I could possibly hope for tonight, for 19:25...

...on a bleedin' short course! 

4.88km I made it, so if that's right was comfortably on for a 5k sub-20. 

Someone else made it just over 4.8km, at the pace I was covering over the closing stages, I'd have had a shot at sub-20 even with another 200m, and would have been an enormous PB either way. (20:57 previously.)

Gutted.

Splits: 3:53, 4:08, 4:07, 3:58, and 3:20 (3:47km pace) for the truncated final km.

The sorry tale in full:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/334090958

27/06/2013 at 20:51

Bob - Very annoying but......really good run anyway. You'll break sub 20 properly sooner rather than later.

Simon - I don't like my Kinvaras, excessively firm for my liking. Do you have the 4s?
 
Rob - Good to see you back posting.

Having relied on races as my only tempo stuff recently I decided I'd better start reintroducing it into training. So 10 miles with 5@ MP this evening. Ended up with 6.24 pace for the MP section. Felt very comfortable indeed. Happy with that especially with wind and humidity to contend with Will look to increase this up to 10 miles over the coming weeks with a view to autumn halfs.

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