The Middle Ground

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02/07/2013 at 16:19

Yes, there's something weird about some "non-standard" distances for WAVA ... probably not enough data to reliably set the "100%". The 3 mile world record is probably a lot less rigorous than the 5K record.

02/07/2013 at 19:50

Thanks Bob - yeh it went fine, felt strong all the way through and ran it at a fairly steady pace (except for the 3rd km which for some reason I did about 30 seconds quicker even though it included some uphill bits?!) and by the end felt like i could have easily carried on etc. Just a bit of soreness in my ankles and knees during the last km or so, but nothing major.

Yeh the plan is to increase the LSR to 12km a couple of weeks before the race (ie about another 1km per week). and increase my overall weekly mileage incrementally each week too.

Hope the race went well tonight!

02/07/2013 at 20:20

1500 went as expected - wet, windy, not pb conditions at all. Nobody wanted to take the pace on, so sat behind the group, out of the wind and out of trouble. Splits of 74, 2:28, 3:45 and I kicked with 200 to go, ran 4:40.30 (5:00.7 mile)  with plenty left in the tank at the end. Annoying conditions weren't better but it happens, it was one of those slow, tactical races where nobody wanted to lead. 

Edited: 02/07/2013 at 20:23
02/07/2013 at 22:20

Heh - blinkin' flip! Had read rumblings on another club's forum that last year's 4 miler in this series was over distance, and on the same course tonight, I have to concur! 

Found it a tough race throughout - much more multi-terrain than the 3 miler last week although in the same park, and whilst it was mostly dry, there was a very blustery wind and more inclines. Nevertheless went through 4 miles per the Garmin almost bang on target at 26:17 (6:31, 6:36, 6:39 and 6:31) but as it beeped could see there was probably the best part of 200m to go. Was absolutely farked by this point, but a bit of anger at that, and the sight of the back of a guy I've had several duels with at parkrun and now in this series, induced my strongest sprint finish to date, covering the last 29 seconds at 4:25 pace it seems. He's still never beaten me head-to-head. 

26:46 on the Garmin and called by the timer as I crossed the line.

Now I know Garmin's aren't 100% accurate, but a discrepancy of almost 180m over 4 miles seems rather extreme. This race had quite a heavy SSS rating last year (perhaps because of the possible over-distance?), so will be interesting to see what  RB make of that performance in terms of my handicap.

The good news is that I've found the closing 5 mile race at Colwick on the Garmin Connect explore function from last year, and that course does seem more true to the stated distance. Will therefore be interesting to see whether I can finally find a time in this series that more reflects where I feel I am at this stage! Looking for 33:30 or thereabouts in that on Thursday. 

Duck - Well run - shame about the conditions, but that's still a great time. Take it you were the victor?

Andrew - Well done. All sounds good to me. Keep it up!

Dr D - Aye - that's a fair point!

Edited: 02/07/2013 at 22:20
03/07/2013 at 09:00

Bob – That does look a tad over distance, even taking garmin accuracy into account. I do think even officially certifies courses can differ by enough to have a significant impact on times. Some courses that should be super fast are surprisingly slow and vice versa. Great running though, you are improving at a rate of knots.

Duck – Sounds a solid race from you. Good to practice racing tactics as well, I guess on the track it’s not always just about the times.

Finally managed to get down to my potential new club last night. Session of 5X4 mins with 2 mins recovery. Average pace of 5.42 for the session and 12 and a bit miles in total (lengthy warm up and down to get there). Enjoyed the session and pretty sure I wouldn’t have done it that quickly on my own. I think this is exactly what I need to push on.

03/07/2013 at 12:07

Thanks, Mr V - seems to be going in the right direction. Wouldn't have believed I'd be hitting those mile splits on a 4 miler even, say, 3 months ago. Cracking session from you there by the sounds of it. Will be joining my new club for one of their regular training runs next Monday hopefully. Probably ought to look for a steady pace after all this racing the last couple of weeks!

Revised down to 26:47 last night in the end. Odd as there was nearly a calamitous collision at the finish as the guy two places in front (26:45) slammed on the anchors as he crossed the line causing the next chap and I to almost concertina into him as I tried to overhaul him on the line! Guess they just didn't want to give any two runners the same time.

03/07/2013 at 13:46

Good race yet again Bob - that's a good pace there at the end...never managed anything like that myself from memory! Shame about the long distance but better than being short! Sounds sensible to build a block of steady running now.....

To quote what you said...'....was absolutely farked by this point'.....I have now just seen your fastest pace presumably for the sprint finish was under 4m/m! Are you sure you felt like that?  Need another emoticon to express how I feel about that sort of pace!!!!! Maybe you have some real short distance potential locked away? Well you never a shame if you were to stop with the cricket by the way!  As for the hockey, I will make a final decision on it once the close season is over.

Good race for you and nice training from you recently too Duck! Congrats with the job too by the way!

Nice to see you 'back on track' Simon! Pardon the pun but good to see when you were debating on whether your season was over the other week!

Thanks for pointing out the vsss figure DT. Never really looked into this before...and indeed Sunday's 10k was +0.5. The majority of my races this year appear to have a negative value with this to them which seems ok. You are right too, my drop off was consistent with what you say in that the 5th mile was over a minute slower than the first!

Thanks for the wider feeback everyone by the way. Noted with the treadmill session...and despite what I said recently, having checked my training log I didn't actually race a 10k on the Tuesday preceding Eastleigh. In hindsight it was a mistake for sure to do that and some quality on the Thursday. With Eastleigh I did 4x1 mile reps on the Tuesday and some steady running/rest days the week leading up to that particular Sunday. I am just glad in hindsight it wasn't a targeted A race.

Will be interested to know what you mean by longer term benefits of this sort of session for a 10 miler/half mind Alehouse - considering those are targeted A races for October! Oh - and I am one of the very few who tends to enjoy treadmill running! No idea why but it does have it's place for me! I am sure you will get some of your form back as the weeks and months go by too...there is certainly some progress more recently already!

Good advice there too Mr V - I might be doing another 10k if I am not visiting Wales on the 14th...the Wyvern 10k (near Eastleigh) will try what you say on running that a little slower on the first mile. Again not an A race by any means - more for a fun morning out with this one being a low key village race so won't look too deeply with any race times at the moment.

Edited: 03/07/2013 at 13:50
03/07/2013 at 22:01

I've been in a bit of a malaise recently, since the classics i've been struggling to find much enthusiasm for bike racing, what with the disappointing Giro and the lack of TV coverage of the Dauphine and the TdS. However I am excited about the Tour, even when the GC race isn't great, the Tour is still the Tour, with all the fun, gossip, and futile breakaways that go with it.
I'm really hoping for an open race, I wish him no ill personally, but would quite like to see Froome lose a bit of time early in the race, 3 or 4 minutes minutes would do, so that other guys are brought into the GC race and Sky would have to take risks and go on the offensive. I don't mind who wins really, would just be nice to see the GC battle go all the way to the Alps, rather than being decided after the first TT and the Aix 3 Domaine stage.
Vive Le Tour

03/07/2013 at 22:23
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03/07/2013 at 22:43

Anyway...back to the running!

WJH - Aye, well I did say I was angry! Was across very long grass too...though suspect the downhill profile of the very last of the run in may be more relevant.  Interesting point though, I nearly signed up for an open mile on the track, but was going on holiday very early the following morning, so thought better of it. Do fancy a 3000m on the track in one of the opens coming up either local to home or work before the season's out though. The quick finishes may be a bit misleading though - I just feel like I get a huge 'rush' of adrenaline once I see the finish line, and no matter how knackered I am, can go again. Very odd sensation...but I like it - the rush reminds me of my clubbing days in some ways - ahem!

Duck - Very rude of me - failed to mention the job - congrats! But keep in touch when you can...the thread can ill afford to lose any more stalwarts. 

Afternoon off today to take the little 'un to a school visit, so in the hour and a half I had free, slotted in a similar 2.5m recovery run to the day between last week's races. Very easy pace, with a short burst concentrating on form. Everything seems in working order and I'm not as stiff as last week, so it's all systems go for the closing 5 miler of the GP series tomorrow, and a bit of a mingle in the bar with adversaries and new club mates in the bar for the presentations afterwards! 

335, 289 and 305 competitors in the 3 races so far with a majority of runners competing in all of them, and reckon I sit just inside the top 50 overall so far. Hoping for a strong finish!

03/07/2013 at 22:43

Bob- bad news again from local series. I never understand when races are long or short and organisers msut know it. I did a 10k last September and at the start the organiser announced the course was actually 260m long. The thing is we started the race at the bottom of a long straight closed rd. Why not just move us on 260m!

My pb is 39.47 set in Telford last December. My only foray into sub 40. My A target is sub 40, B target is seasons best which currently is 40.25 and C target is sub 41. Anything below that and I will be disappointed. Though it does suddenly look like the weather will play its hand! In terms of training I am very much of the mindset that for a 10k I don't do anything for 24-36 hours before if its and A or B race, so with the first 10k Wednesday evening I will probably do an easy run Monday morning. Did 8 miles this morning at higher end of easy, and 4 yesterday at easy. I think I still have Saturdays 10k in my legs though as was a complete drag. Planning a hard tempo run tomorrow on treadmill. With weekend plans thereafter I am not sure I will get the chance for a further serious session.

As WJH says, I quite enjoy a treadmill run, mainly at the higher speeds, its a nice change once a week and different environment.

Have I missed  a post somewhere regarding cycling given the Cervelo post above?

03/07/2013 at 23:32

DT, easy days in between sounds wise, but I think you should try and stick in some race pace practice. E.g. 400 @ slightly faster than race pace with lots of recovery to help tune in. I find I need 4-5 days between a hard session and a race.

Duck, the 400 was after the 800 and without a decent warm up. I reckon I would have got close to 57 in ideal conditions. Some great times in training from you there. Well done on the 1500 - it must be a good sign if you felt you had plenty left.

I can sympathise with the pacing issues. I can knock out 200m - 400m reps to withing tenths of a second, but then it all falls apart. I reckon 800 is the hardest distance to pace by far.

Bob, you interpreted the session right. I learnt that session description format recently on my course - I'll dig out the notes and explain it properly cos it's actually a very handy, concise way of writing down sessions. Seems you're having a bit of bad luck with badly-measured courses. That does sound like a lot to be out on the Garmin. But great running nonetheless.

Sounds good, Mr V. Hard sessions can definitely be made easier in a group.

WJH, apparently Farah and Rupp enjoy the odd treadmill session, so you're in good company. I hate the bloody things

I did my 3000 tonight. the plan was to start at 80/lap (10 minute pace) and see how I felt after a mile. Mis-paced the first lap slightly and went through in 75. Despite feeling good I deliberately slowed a touch and went through the mile in about 5:14. Managed to keep a decent pace and kicked with 400 to go to finish in 9:46.4 (previous PB 10:04.14). Very happy with that.

There were 47 people in the race! Spent a bit of time running in lane 2, but it was nice to have plenty of people to pick off. Need to do a fast 1500 now, but I won't get a chance for a couple of weeks.

Edited: 03/07/2013 at 23:33
04/07/2013 at 09:36

Nice 3000m there Simon! The season is shaping up nicely for you. I went to a 3000m track race last weekend (the one YD advertised here a while back) but I didn't run as I'm really not up to running at that kind of pace... my lad did run (he wanted to race me but glad I didn't as he came in at 11:16) . PRF (remember him?  ) was there too - he clocked 10:13.

Edited: 04/07/2013 at 09:36
04/07/2013 at 13:21

Bob, unlucky with the overdistance courses right now! A great finish though, I'd have a look at some 400s 

I didn't end up winning, race turned into a last-lap burnup with a those ahead with more in the tank than me so I ended up second last  I am happy how "routine" it felt though as that would not have been the case just a few months ago.

Mr V, which club are you looking at? Sounds a good session with a solid chunk of mileage each side!

Excellent 3k Simon. How the heck did they manage 47 in one race? Heats would have been better, no?

Dan, how is prf? I notice he's been doing more marathons and parkrun challenges and going to Ireland too. Well done to your son!

Felt like I've been neglecting my 400 stuff a bit so did a classic Clyde Hart session today (he was MJ's coach and like his stuff quite a lot) of split 400s. 

The idea is quite simple - a 400m effort, split up into 2 with 60s rec between the two efforts. You can do any combination - 300/100, 200/200, 250/150 etc but the important thing is that you cover 400m and the rest is 60 seconds. 200/200 is probably the best place to start so I did that this morning, 2 sets with 20 mins rec.

Set 1: 28.8, 27.2 for 56.0.

Cocked up pacing through 200m by being too cautious but it felt pretty solid without being difficult.

Set 2: 27.0, 27.1 for 54.1.

Much better! I don't quite have the confidence to go out faster than 27 right now so I think I need to run some more max speed endurance stuff. It felt good though and I have the strength and specific endurance to really turn the wick up with 150 to go and not die in lactic acid. 

The big thing is I need some more racing experience to get that first 200 right, but I'm almost there. Just need to figure out exactly what I can get away with! 

04/07/2013 at 14:23

Dan, sounds like Junior Dr D is doing well. I do remember PRF. And Brilly, Curly and Ratzer who also seem to have given up on the thread. At least Dash is till lurking and Phil pops in when we take him off the WAVA table.

Duck, missed the new job bit. Congrats. The 47 in one race was because we were running late because there were so many sprints and the judges didn't want to stay an extra 15 minutes. There were a few moans about sprinters getting favourable treatment, but I suppose the problem is they do need to run in lanes. I did get my heels clipped on the first bend (despite being in lane 3) and a couple of laps in had to gently shove the back of somebody who cut me up (a bit like Mo did on Sunday, but much slower)

Sounds like an interesting session. Those paces look good.Have you got many races coming up?

I'm doing a 400 paced session tonight myself but only have about 45 minutes including warm up time. Could maybe just fit yours in.

04/07/2013 at 14:37

Simon, the Watford open meets often run past 10pm I believe, not unusual to see 10 or so 800m heats from the results I have seen! 

That makes the result even better from here. Being boxed in and cut up is thankfully something I've not had many issues with but it really ruins your race when it happens.

Today is a difficult session but short and sweet. You could also consider his 3*200 session (60s rec) - first at second half 400 pace (probably 29.0 - 29.5 for you), second at first half 400 pace (~28.0), third all-out. 

I've got an 800 on July 21st, a 400 & 200 on the 25th, then I'm basically racing every weekend in August. 

Edited: 04/07/2013 at 14:50
04/07/2013 at 16:31

It was Battersea, not Watford. I have considered going up to Watford for a fast time, but to be honest I think the journey up there and the waiting around would outweigh any benefits.

I don't think getting boxed etc. is as bad in a 3000 as it can be in shorter races. In an 800 it seems anything slightly out of the ordinary can mess things up.

I may do that session instead tonight. It sounds like it would fit my schedule a bit better.

04/07/2013 at 21:41

Duck, did the 3 x 200 with 60" recovery session. Went out a bit too fast on the first one and clocked 27.8, over-adjusted the next with a 29.5 and then didn't have much left for a 28.7 last rep.  It'll be a good done to try again when I haven't raced the night before. Got some pace in the pegs before Monday's 800 though.

04/07/2013 at 21:47

Duck- well done on the job!

Dan- good running from junior there.

Mr V- Sounds similar to what my club run night is like, albeit we only cover about 9-10 miles with efforts.

Simon- Sounds like its just as well you didn't write the season off!

Did a hard session today. Reverted to the paces pyramid I did a few weeks ago this afternoon so a mile at mp, hmp, 10kp, 10kp..... Felt ok, I was was making a point of concentrating on the different effects it had on me at the various paces each side of the pyramid. The 2nd 10k pace had be puffing hard, and the final mp, even though my HR was right down my legs were heavy and battling the lactic acid. Easy 5 miles in the morning then hoping to get a light efforts session in on track as per what simon said, perhaps sunday.

Looks like I have picked a great two weeks to have a baby and take paternity leave. Its not broke my stride so far. Monday (birth day) was natural rest day, Tuesday, I did easy 4 miles before visiting, yesterday a steady 8 miles before, then went to tempo run after lunch when everyone else slept

04/07/2013 at 23:33

DT - Firstly, many congrats on the birth! Wonderful times. The heat could well hamper you next week - shame, I'm sure with the good, and more structured training (albeit slightly compromised by health) you'd have been good for a PB. Maybe you still will, but I found 22C during tonight's race (more of that shortly) tough in the middle section - have not run at all in that sort of temperature before. In no hurry to repeat it! Good session from you today. Oh, and think the Cervelo post is simply spam TBH!

Simon - Cheers, and yes - would be interested to see the full explanation of abbreviating those sessions. Cracking 3000m from you there - must be particularly satisfying so close to coming out of the back end of your health problems, and being on the brink of throwing the towel in.

Dr D - Good stuff from 'the boy'.

Duck - 400s? Woah there! Deliberately shying away from anything that short in either racing or training for fear of injuring myself. I am becoming curious what I might manage at something shorter though, given the quick finishes. I can't remember the last time anyone came past me in the last mile of a race! Shame how your 1500m turned out there - useful experience to bank for the future even so. Quick 200m reps there - phew.

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