Duck - stunning! The end.
DT - don't worry ... the mileage over the past months will take a toll. You need a proper taper to get the benefit.
Simon - no idea whetehr the intervals help ... first time doing this malarkey (I've always concetrated on sub-LT and MP before).
So .... 20.4 miles today ... 4 laps of a 5.1m loop.
Lap 1, 44:12, 8:40/m, 72% maxHR ... warm-up
Then 15.3M of MP effort...
Lap 2, 38:34, 7:34/m, 77.7% maxHR Lap 3, 38:20, 7:31/m, 80% maxHR Lap 4, 38:32, 7:33/m, 81.7% maxHR
15.3 miles "MP" section = 7:33/m at 79.8% maxHR
Alrighty, quick report before I head to bed - my legs are utterly trashed right now.
Given Paris last week I was happy to have a bit more of a play around today and try some alternative strategies - with a good time in the bag I had absolutely no pressure today and went into what is almost a local event for me looking to enjoy it.
So the day began with an easy 15 minute jog at 6am which left me feeling like my legs were in decent shape. A 2.5 hour drive to Inverness got us there with almost 2 hours to kill, with the weather looking a bit cold and breezy in places but ultimetely not too bad.
Warming up I ran into daviec from Fetch (we had discussed a possible assault on sub-77 beforehand) so finished warming up with him. Given this is basically a local half for me I knew most people on the startline, including a few folk who I have been close to recently, so knew I shouldn't have issues with being isolated in the race.
I was second row on the startso at the gun I was up into pace reasonably quickly and settled into a rhythm very soon. Difficult to tell as early on as this but I suspected there wasn't the 'pop' in the legs as normally happens in a good race, but clicked the first 2 miles off in 5:59 & 6:04 without any problems.
We were basically doing the River Ness 10k course in reverse (as I quickly discovered) so after 5k the couse started to wind up into the hills so pace started to drop. I had been with a group of 3 or 4 after 2M but I left them behind, and lockd onto daviec who was about 60-70m ahead at this point. Split 5k in roughly 18:35 (Garmin reckoning) but already could feel the legs grumbling a bit.
4M in and I passed the lead Metro (who went on to run 88:00 so must have dropped off the pace a lot in the latter stages). This was the big climb of the day but davie was gradually being reeled in, and HR was still stable just under 170bpm (averaged 169 last week).
Caught davie at 5M and we ran together through 10k. At this point I began to drop him a bit and catch the HBT runner ahead. Around miles 7 - 9 I really struggled to maintain pace around the twisty parts of the course - legs were really starting to throb now with accumulated fatigue.
At this point I had a bit of an internal asessment of how I was doing. Lungs - fine. Legs - not so fine. But I felt like I was having a good grind, so at this stage would have been happy to run low 6:00/m to the finish and dip under 1:19.
Into mile 10 which was the big downhill of the course. davie came storming down the hill and looked set to pass me which I was having none of at this stage. So opened up a bit and found that, actually, running faster was easier. Ran again with davie for a while but he got a bit caught up in the water station and dropped back 10-15m. I had 2 guys about 100m in front who I was catching pretty rapidly now so focused on them.
10M marker in 59:40 (that was one I was very careful to look at) and I was feeling pretty good. Lungs were fine and legs didn't feel to bad either - now I was really into my stride. If I had really gone for it I think I would have been found out, but I was happy to catch those in front steadily.
Caught them just before mile 11 and went by soon after. One stayed with me for a while but I dropped him just before 12M. Last mile and a bit was tough with next runner a good 200m in front so I knew I wasn't going to catch him. The course finished on the track so dropped a casual 33s last 200m in to finish in 1:17'51.
Overall, despite the last 5k feeling better than the rest of the race combined I was limited by legs today. Sitting here now I am actually more satisfied with today's result than I was this time 7 days ago. 2 half marathons run within 19sec of each other 7 days apart.... the metronome continues.
Garmin trace for those interested.
Duck: great report! Just don't do another half next Sunday (or Saturday come to that!)! As I said earlier, I thought you might be more pleased with today. The big difference, perhaps, is that you could get straight into your running, whereas in the big events it can take miles before you are able to run freely. I hated the GNRfor exactly that reason as I couldn't get running for ages...6 or 7k before things really opened out (I had started far too far back) and I ran the last 11k faster than the first 10. What are the plans now? Suspect you are probably ready for a 10k PB attempt around Easter time!
Duck- great report and result.
I'm undecided yet just what to do. To appease my disappointment, runbritain gave the race a difficulty rating of 1.4 today so pretty difficult. Reading ducks report on how his legs felt, I know I didn't race today. No soreness or tightness anywhere. Just feel like they did a steady run.
Two more weeks of the schedule full on then taper.
Nice LR with MP Dr Dan.
Duck another great performance. You need to get on a flat, straight quiet course now!
Missed gym session this morning as I was using a different coat from the last 2 months and didn't have a pound for the locker! I was probably due a rest day anyway...
DT ... I recall that you recently were struggling with hitting the 5 mile P&D LT session at about 6:40/m, and so changed to 6:50/m for the 7M version, which was much more comfortable. The latter tempo pace is more in line with your latest 5K time too. However, you ran the first 7M of your HM at 6:40/m ...if that's true tempo pace, you would expect to blow out at 9 miles (1 hour) ... if it's a bit faster than tempo, then earlier. So maybe you should see the HM as 13M with 7-8 at LT ... a great session rather than a failed race.
Basically, this is what I decided to do with my 10M race when I realised that the wind would scupper any chance of a good time ... managed about 7-8M at tempo and then, inevitably, started to slow.
Chubby ... I keep a pound in my swimming kit bag after a similar experience!
Mr V – cant make Mermaid 10k, it’s the same day as Salford 10k and we are heading over that way irrespective of me racing. As for racing plans in general, nothing is set in stone now, so was thinking just a couple of 10k races, maybe a 5k as little fitness test between now and the Marathon. I don’t really have the time to be racing loads as I will need to use weekends to get in the required long runs in. Good Friday Salford 10k works, as I race Friday and can take it easy on the Sat and still do a quality long run on the Sunday, or if I want an extra days recovery for the long run I can do it on the easter Monday giving me two recovery days, so I don’t lose out on long run time with that particular race. I had forgotten you were training to be a massuer.DT – deffinately don’t race the other half, maybe use it as a MP run but nothing more than that. As for why you struggled, I find it very tough once I get knocked off course with something like a stich or bad stomach, so no wonder once you hit a tough part of the race you couldn’t get back on track. I had a similar situation occur to me at the GNR a couple of years ago, I was cruising through 7 miles feeling great, then hit an uphil bit at 9m miles and fell to pieces and couldn’t pull it back my legs were lead weights. Ended up running the last 4 miles about 30 seconds per mile slower than the first 9 miles. Dr Dan's explanation is also a good one, just running 10 seconds per mile for 3 or 4 miles early on can scupper a race, so take the lessons, learn from them and move on.CB/Alehouse – not too worried if Salford is a PB course or not, I doubt I will be in PB shape by then anyway just looking for a fitness test along the way really. I’ll try to avoid the poo as well! Be good to meet if we get the chance Alehouse.Top performance Duck. As prf always used to say, when you get a few performances grouped together of a similar level it off that kind of period when you can then make the next big jump forward. Something to think about for autumn/spring half options. I assume you are still focussing on Middle Distance this summer?Monster session Dr Dan, not sure if I am looking forward to tackling those kind of sessions or not when I get going. How are you finding the P&D schedules, does it suit you?10.something miles at a reasonable clip for me yesterday (7:15 average with some sub 7s towards the end) Lovely weather for it, just about to head out for a short lunchtime plod, also in the sunshine!
Alehouse I hope you enjoyed the sunshine at Trafford. I have no intention of rushing the comeback. I'm going to slowly build up distance whilst keeping gym work in. As the mileage gets higher I'll change the focus in the gym from the elliptical to core and swimming.
TR - Fair enough, sounds like you've got your head screwed on with it, and can understand why you want to get the monkey off your back, so hope the mara plans come together for you. Certainly sounds like you're enjoying your running again anyway. And thanks, this week aside, I'm largely just mixing up a variety of LT/Tempo style runs in the build up to Lincoln. More on that below, but good to hear Saturday's was hitting the right sort of zone.
DT - Hard lines. Your training has been good, but things just aren't coming together on race day for you just now. Only a matter of time I'm sure, and certainly doesn't mean your hard work is not actually accumulating overall progress. Not my area, but Mr V's idea to target MP on feel and without the watch for the other half sounds a good one. I'm thinking of ditching mine for a parkrun in a couple of weeks just to see what happens, and what I can achieve just concentrating on running 'hard'. Congratulations on the gold medal though. Very nice consolation that is...or at least ought to be!
Solid threshold effort, Mr V - never easy to judge when you're being blown about.
As mentioned elsewhere, Duck - that's an incredible effort at Inverness in my book. Is that elevation gain on the Garmin Activity accurate? Enjoyed the race report again too, I like how you dug in on tired legs.
Really impressive, monster MP effort, Dan. Looking very good indeed.
Very enjoyable 10 miler in the warm spring sunshine yesterday at an easy feeling and consistent 8:03 pace to bring up just under 40 for the week. Rest day today, and in fact reduced mileage this week as I'm briefly turning to some pacier running with a club track session tomorrow, and what should be a 3 mile leg at the 12 Stage Relays with the club in Brum next weekend.
As per the above though, I'm just looking to finalise my plans for the key sessions in the build up to Lincoln on 6th April, and am making LT work the main focus of these. Current 10k pace is 6:30/mile and LT estimated between 6:42 & 6:48 depending on which calculator you believe, whilst goal 10k pace is 6:26. So far I've done: -
1. 4 miles continuous progressive in an average of 6:52/mile.2. 2 x 2 miles off 3 mins - at an almost constant 6:47.
And, with one of these shamelessly pinched from Stevie G / Skinny / Lit, am planning a further: -
3. 4 x 1 mile cruise intervals - 6:30/mile off 1 minute - 18 days out.4. 8 x 1km - 6:26 (goal) pace off 1 minute - 10 days out.5. 4 x 800m - 6:26 pace again but off 2 mins as a light, final tune up - 5 days out.
Do these sound about right, folks? Would welcome any feedback. Thanks.
TR - yep, it was a monster and I admit that I was dreading it, especially at the end of a 215 mile 4 week block. But I kept telling myself that if I have to run 26.2 at MP, then 15 should be easy. Right? It was actually scheduled as 18M wi 14 @ MP but I wanted a flat route, which isn't easy in Leeds, so went with a good 5.1M loop, which then lent itself to doing 20.4M with 15.3 @ MP. I can't complain with P&D ... it has been a struggle to juggle the sessions around real life but it usually works out and having a schedule has kept me disciplined. It's supposed to be a "hard" schedule but I've found having 2 days off per week means it's manageable and so far I haven't felt over-trained.... only missed 1 week in 13 so far (life-threatening man-flu). Doing the LT sessions and the recent intervals has meant doing faster stuff than Hadd, so I feel a bit more confident about the planned post-marathon shift to 5K-10K racing over the summer... and less fearful about next weekend's Bradford 10K!Bob - nice 10M run and some good plans for April ... I'll let the speed merchants comment on the sessions
Bob- yes defo happy to get a medal. I'm interested on the three sessions above and their timing. What is the significance of 18 days out as against say 15 or 19?
Dr dan- I have thought about that being the case, however the nature of the crash was sudden and out of the blue. I went from cruising at 6.30- 6.40 to struggling to hold 7.30. The other thing I have considered is my lack of hills. I have purposely found a pretty flat 20 mile route that I have been using all or part of since Xmas. Rationale being that london is flat and so should train on flat. Maybe I need to run hills a bit more. I was poor at them anyway.
As Dan says, p and d gives you two potential days off plus a recovery run. I tend to take one day off and spin the other. But it does give adequate rest in my opinion.
I think I can't trust myself not to race that half. Plus its 20 quid and a 45 min drive each way. My key objective is to discover a sensible mara pace. Therefore I think I will go out and do the 18 with 14 @ mp that day instead of getting in a 4th 22 miler.
Bob – The sessions sound perfectly sensible though I would suggest they are more V02 max sessions than lactate threshold ones. I’d be looking at something like 3x15 minutes or 2x20 to hit threshold from above and something like 6x5 mins or 25 minutes continuous to hit it from below. If I was you I’d have one lactate and one V02 as you 2 weekly sessions. You are obviously a little short of time to fit everything in though especially as you’ll probably be wanting to get in at least one leg turnover session beforehand. I guess part of the question is whether this is a big goal race or whether it’s just part of the longer plan?
Good decision DT ... the MP run is much more important and I bet you nail it!
RE: the HM crash ... it still sounds just like a case of running at tempo for too long to me. At Snake Lane I was running 6:50ish for 7 miles, felt really strong and even told myself I was fitter than expected and a good time was coming up. Then, out-of-the-blue I felt terrible and slowed from 6:48/m for the first 7M, to 7:55 ... managed to average 7:40/m in thee final 3M. I have no doubt I could have managed 7/m for the whole 10M, if that had been the aim.
1, 6:31, 2, 6:43, 3, 6:39, 4, 7:01, 5, 6:39, 6, 7:09, 7, 6:52, .......... 47:33 for 7M @ LT session (6:48/m)8, 7:55, 9, 7:22, 10, 7:42 ... 70:32
DT - No science in the timings, other than that's where they can be slotted in alongside everything else I have to do, both in running terms and other commitments. Days out from race were listed more as a general indicator, and to highlight that I'm planning the last full key session 10 days out.
Regarding hills, I don't think you'll ever do yourself any harm by training on hills, just makes the flat feel easier! Not that I'm one to talk having studiously avoided them for the majority of last spring and autumn and thus paying for it throughout the XC season.
Mr V - Thanks. My understanding of 'Cruise Intervals' was that the combination of a little faster than LT pace, but combined with shorter repetitions and short recoveries between them, had the effect of replicating the effect of an LT session, but whilst allowing you to run at closer to goal pace for, say, a 10k and also derive the other benefits of faster paced running, such as running economy. I also planned it that way, so that as the month progresses, the key sessions get closer to goal pace. I think Simon would have it that genuine VO2 max sessions for someone of my level would start at a bare minimum of 5k pace, approx 6:15 now, and probably a bit quicker. Guess there's no hard and fast rules in running, and everyone has a different opinion depending on the source of their guidance on a particular topic! There is also something closer to VO2 max as part of the plan though - 3 sessions: track tomorrow, relays on Sunday, and a probable parkrun on the 22nd. And yep, this is a big target race for me. Will back off for a month afterwards, so I'm risking running closer to the edge than I have done for some months in trying to hit a bit of a peak for Lincoln.
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