Bob, I see. Given where the sessions had come from I thought there was some magic to the timings!!
Solid effort wjh, more a shasme about the hockey. At least it probably meant you didn't have to watch the rugby! Fingers crossed this is all down to marathon training. At very least, as I think bob said further, the effort I'm putting in must be going somewhere and will eventually count in another phase.
Mr v , Portugal sounds good. I recall you did that last year as well. Is this a regular fixture?
Dr Dan you might have a point. My first mile was 6.28 on Sunday which is probably more a first mile I'd be happy with in a ten k. I used to start half's very conservatively as they seemed such a long way. The problem is they are not anymore and so I'm happy to chance blowing up!
Got a bit of a toe issue. Stubbed it Saturday night. Didn't think much about it then when I finished the half it was red. Its now more purple and throbbing after a day in work shoes.
Mighty impressive Dan. Will attempt a good MP for my last 20 miler next weekend But nowhere near that!
DT...off to the Wales v Scotland match next weekend. Have had the result rubbed in enough already! And now next weekends match is for nothing much but pride....but at least no wooden spoon! As for hockey, it's a slippery slope downhill after a certain age unless you have a good hockey brain. If you can't turn and accelerate quickly then you are not even left chasing shadows, just their wheel dust! Years ago I was half decent but guess some of it is the equivalent of trying to take on sub 16 5k runners, and failing miserably! I do think some of the players I play against, including one or two former team mates would be very good runners of that calibre and I've tried to encourage them but to no avail! I've decided its my last season after getting my head round it finally!
Btw, FWIW, a 6:27 first mile at the previous weekends half may also have set me back a bit too!
TR - Have you run the Tees Barrage 10k before? I'm thinking of entering and just wondering if its a quick course - I'm guessing it must at least be pretty flat.
DT - Take care of that toe.
WJH - Well done - they all count!
Mr V – I get mixed up between Tees Barrage and Tees Pride 10ks. I think the Tees Pride is quite a quick one in September and Tees Barrage is flat but twisty with sections over foot bridges and underpasses and the like, so might not be all that quick. I haven’t run either but I can ask at club tomorrow, there will be loads there who have run both races. Or you could ask on the NE Runners Facebook page.Bob – my two pence about those sessions. As a general rule with LT and tempo work when preparing for a 10k I think that early on in a cycle it’s better to break up a tempo, so start with 5 x 1m with short recoveries, becoming 2 x 2m and then 2 x 2.5m and then 4m in one go and so on. However, closer to race day I think you are better having a solid tempo run with no recoveries and even maybe the last tempo run could be a progressive run to bring you to a peak for the big race. The solid tempo run is closer to what you will feel in a race so will help you prepare mentally and physically. As others have said the idea of breaking up LT work is so that you can get more in at that pace, so 5 x 1m, 2 x 2m and 2 x 2.5m might be at 6:35-6:40/mi for you, whereas right now 4m straight might be 6:45/mi and 5m 6:50/mi. However, as you progress through the sessions your fitness will have improved and you might find yourself hitting 6:40s more comfortably by the time you get to the 4m and 5m tempo. That’s when you know a PB is due when what was cruise interval pace is now longer tempo pace!4 x 1m is a 10k pace session, I would start these at current 10k pace and if feeling good aim to hit target pace on the last rep, no more than 90 seconds recovery. 8 x 1k at faster than 10k pace maybe getting close to 5k pace at the end if it’s a good day, 1 min recoveries. 4 x 800m should be faster than 5k pace IMO. Again if you want to be cautious start at 5k pace and increase if feeling good, 1 min recovery again. Dr Dan – P&D sounds ideal, it should be challenging without breaking you, sounds like an excellent balance to me. Will be interesting to see if the LT works for you in the place of the weekly long tempo you normally do (ILTHR?) I agree it should help with the 10k races you have planned. I fancied a crack at Bradford but I will be in Munich sampling the local ales that day, C'est la vie WJH – yes I will still be attempting sub 3, just less sub than before. Well done on the PB in the middle of hard training, especially after that 20 miler on Friday, that will be very useful come the Marathon I think. Take care of the toe DTI have a sick little boy, so I am ‘working’ from home today. Hoping to get out for a run later on, not holding my breath though….
Simon, Mr V, TR - Thanks for the input all. Lots of food for thought there, all part of the learning curve. I'll perhaps repeat the 2 x 2 miler for my next session then, and hope for more friendly conditions to try to nail the 6:45 estimated LT pace this time, whilst keeping the 8 x 1km at target pace as the final big session - I think I need that to give me the confidence I can run 39:xx as well as trying to get the feel for the required pace. TR - Aye, ordinarily I'd do at least 5 reps in a full 800m session, and it would indeed be between 3k and 5k pace, but at just 5 days out from the race, I'm looking to back off the volume in that final, light tune up session and also save the legs from anything faster than race pace other than some strides. Once I get into the build up to the track season in early May, there will be plenty of the faster paced stuff though, with 800m and 1k reps much closer to what you describe - thanks. I thrived off those from early to mid summer last year.
Bon voyage, Mr V! Hope you feel the benefit of the training and the sun on your back when you return. Nice little bit of progress in the pace of your most recent MP session there compared to last week's to take away with you anyway.
Take the PB as a positive, WJH and build on it. Hope the Eastleigh preparation goes well - do I recall that being a PB event for you last year? Sounds like you'll be well shot of the hockey now - can't be much fun being on the wrong end of a 19-1 hiding!
DT - Toe sounds nasty! Hope it doesn't get any worse.
TR - Hope the youngster's soon well again, and that you get the opportunity to head out later somehow. Lovely day for it again down here.
Hope the little'un is okay TR! Enjoy the German beer next week! And enjoy the sun MrV! At least I'll be in Bradford!
I expected to still be trashed from Sunday's efforts for today's intervals but the legs were fine ... 8.3M with 6 x 600m at 5KP with 100s/300m jogs. Average pace on the six intervals was 6:21/m which is faster than any 5K I've actually managed for a few years.
Toe now feels nasty. Just went for a 4 mile recovery run and it really stung. Keep a bag of frozen peas in work so sat with it on ice.
TR- I do love 'work from home' days once the initial panic first thing has settled downa s to who's turn it is to stay home etc! Enjoy the fine ales! Out of interest, what sort of time were you originally after? about 2.45?
there are some on the p and d thread that are a bit broken, however they are completely ignoring the easy parts of the schedule or the pace guidance. I think if you do as it says, certainly on the 55 mile schedule its a reasonable load.
wjh- I always think a decent rugby international is worth the day out anyway regardless of whats riding on the game so just enjoy the atmosphere etc.
Do they not do veterans leagues in it?
DT - yea I was thinking 2:45, I did a couple of longer tempos towards the end of last year and felt pretty comfortable in the 6:10 - 6:15/mi range, 2:45 requires 6:18/mi. At the time my thinking was if this pace is doable on a cold windy night in December, come May it should be an achievable MP. I would have wanted a sub 35 min 10k and 76 - 77 min half in the build up to make sure as well. I think I can forget that now….Unlucky with the toe, hope it passes soon and just means a few days taking it easy. Might be a blessing if that’s the case?Looks like you have a reasonable handle on things Bob, be good to see you make the breakthrough. Looking good Dr Dan, if you are soaking that monster long run/session combo up and then hitting 5k pace 2 days later you might be in great shape. Bodes well for Bradford!Munich should be interesting, it’s a stag do, I am best man so plenty pressure to make sure the trip is a success. I will be taking some trainers though……..I actually don't mind running with a hangover too much. Though I will get my long run out of the way before I go.8 miles with strides tonight, felt good, coach wants me to throw in a couple of tempo miles tomorrow just to test things out.
Morning all, finally some time for a readback - back to work Monday after a week off!
Dt, would agree with Dan in that it looks like you may have run the first section a bit too hard. Just 5-10s/m can make a big difference. Hills too can really throw a spanner in the works, they can really shoot the HR up and get the lactic flowing from which it is difficult to recover. I would have a look at the last few weeks as a whole rather than one result in isolation - I do think if you are sensible in the last few weeks & not try to 'cram fitness' you can get a good time @ VLM.
It's difficult to keep track of one person's sessions (especially on here!), if you wanted you could post sessions from the last few weeks?
FWIW the last 2 weeks have been run feeling steady/comfortable to 8M/13kish then picking the effort up - I found if I do that I am either on pace or just about on pace at that point. Then it's just a 5M hard tempo to the finish.
Dan - MP sesh looks excellent. What has mara HR been in the past? 80% seems a little low, is it in line with past MP efforts?
alehouse, no more HM's until Amsterdam in October now! Have to say I enjoyed Paris & Inverness for different reasons. I would recommend both tbh.
TR, yep still MD for me. Speed feels like it's still there so will probably still run 800m.
bob, yep elevation is pretty accurate - first 6M is pretty uphill!
Sessions look good to me - working the endurance rather than speed side. Might be tempted to throw a longer (30-40mins) tempo in too around HMP/MP, just once, to tie it all together and make sure the stamina is still there.
WJH, nice pb, good stuff. Conditions sounded tough, and after 20 Friday too!!
Legs amazingly are not feeling too bad... bit sore last night (30 mins easy) but I'm not feeling exhausted by any means.
Ouch to the toe news toe DT ... hope you can get that under control soon!
Good luck with the tempo miles TR. Not sure I'd want to be organising the stag-do these days ... life was a bit simpler in my era.
Good recovery there Duck! A HM finishes me off completely! My last marathon came in at 82% average and I think that went well as a race (albeit I wasn't fit enough to expect a good time). I pushed a little too early though and so tied up at about 24 miles. So, based on past experience, I'd expect to be below 80% for the first few miles, then around 80% until about half way ... after that it will rise to around 83% by 20 miles. My experience is that I can only hold 86% for 2-3 miles in the later stages (for reference, 87% is where my 7M tempo pace averages), so I will really try to keep a lid on things until 23-24 miles.
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