The Middle Ground

TD - Thats just not right.

Warm bed or cold North Sea and you chose the latter? Frozen testicles is all I've got to say to that one.....

 Hilly - Maybe a pair of spikes with 'L' and 'R' on the toes may help?  It will be interesting to see the results then after a few more months as it sounds like you may have just stepped over the overtraining line a wee bit, which is inevitable from time to time. I'm doing the same, in terms of concentrating on 5K for the next 11 weeks with the aim of clocking a 16:xx, so as to take more speed into the next marathon build up. Its worked before so we will see....

BR - It was 1993 not 1903!  But you're right - even in just 10 years it was a whole new ball game once the internet allowed sharing of ideas. Even though I trained now and again with a couple of 2:12 ish guys (who can say that now?) they kept their cards close to their chest in terms of their exact training.

You're right about Mr Horwill's input being invaluable - one thing about his approach, which is very much echoed by Charlie Spedding, is that you should train for a marathon just like any other race, ie to race it! None of this 'just getting round stuff'. In a way I'm really jealous of whats available now because the learning curve has been vastly shortened and that is part of the puzzle of why there arent more faster marathoners around.

parkrunfan wrote (see)

TD - Thats just not right.

Warm bed or cold North Sea and you chose the latter? Frozen testicles is all I've got to say to that one.....

P&D's "Road Racing for Serious Runners"  we have this book found it very useful.  Lore of Running too, but there's places where it's a bit too scientific for me.  A book I loved for inpiration was Running with the Legends.  It made me want to get out and just run!

Curly - I'm a track novice too really as only done a handful of races.  My first track race went well, but I remember one 3000m I was going for around 90secs a lap and I went through the first 400m in 78secs, the second lap in 80 secs and the I'm sure you can see where it went from then 

I do like the track though, but last year the first year of doing track races for my club I found myself lined up for a 100m race with girls!  The 800m wasn't much better either, although in the 800m I held my own thinking I was going to be last, but came 4th and very surprised I was too as it was the first time I'd ever done the distance since a child at school!

PRF - I have socks with L & R on them

Not even thought about track races tbh - I am so slow in comparison to the others who are short distance training - suffice to say long distance seems to be more my game

Good parkrun this morning despite yesterdays session - the legs were in and out during the run but really felt strong at the end so thats an improvment on last week when the legs were really dead from the track sessions! 

Ah Duck the student life eh!!! Get some sleep - its bad for running to stay up all night

 Well done this morning Curly. 

I'm going to sleep - I was considering running today but reckoned it'd do me more harm than good. I'm on a cutback week so it's hardly a big deal.

Having said that, I am a bit of a mileage freak. I seem to think that if I don't hit my mileage target for the week I won't be able to improve enough to hit my race targets. 

I think there was a post somewhere (maybe even in this thread) explaining why mileage isn't the pivitol factor to race outcomes. I basically just need someone to tell me to stop fretting about a cumulative figure on a Sunday evening.

Edit: I spelt Sunday wrong. 

Hilly wrote (see)

PRF - I have socks with L & R on them

I have read soooooo many books but would say my two favourites are More Fire by Toby Tanser and Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone. I love the fact that the Africans don't train by HRMs or any other gadgets. More Fire really has inspired me to keep training by body feedback.

Parkrun for me too this morning. First lady, purely by the fact we don't seem to get the fast ladies, but more importantly felt fab, legs feeling good and strong, really looking forward to next week. Just want to do it!!

The Duckinator sleep sounds a good idea

Glad you had a good parkrun too Curly45. Agree they are a fab event.

Can anyone tell me if no DOMS is a good or bad thing. Over the last couple of months it seems whatever I do I don't seem to get any muscle soreness. Does this mean I'm not working hard enough? Even after what felt like a hard hilly fartlek, nothing.

Thanks for all the book suggestions guys, will have a browse on the internet for them and maybe get myself a couple.

Cheers.

I'm still awake

Are there any books for the more technical side of running? Such as the discussion yesterday about fat/carb burning ratios, exactly what happens during lactic acid build up, the benefits of two runs per day, etc etc. My reasoning is that if I know exactly what's going on, for what reason, I'll be able to devise more efficient schedules. I also need a good book to digest over the summer

Well done guys on the parkruns.  Which one did you do Curly and Zion?

I'm not sure if DOMS are good.  Although I only get DOMS if doing something my muscles are not used to.  If I race a longer distance or an off road race then sometimes I'll get them.  I don't seem to get them over 5k or 10k, so wonder if that's as Zion says down to not working hard enough. 

I've not read those books, Zion, will look them up.

I had a good run today, worked really hard!

What session did you do Hilly? How are you finding having a coach?

I have a book containing lots of different accounts of ultras, that is pretty inspiring too. Can't for the life of me remember what it is called though!

No DOMS after racing all out just means that you've prepared your muscles adequately in my opinion.

I wonder how my legs will be tomorrow after racing an 800m, 400m and 400m relay over the course of 2 and half hours this afternoon!

Moraghan - hope you're going to report your results on Daily!  Sounds like a lot to do in 2.5 hours!

Sue C - It's early days yet, but so far so good.  I have a new zest for running and look forward to each day at the moment.  The coach is articulate, analytical and I trust the sessions he has set.  If you're interested in following I've started a blog (not narcissistic) just a way for me to keep a log as I'm awful at keeping a paper one) http://dawnbroom.blogspot.com/

Hilly - I'll keep an eye on your blog. I was considering starting one myself actually.

Geez thats fast!!! Congrats Moraghan!

Hilly - I ran finsbury today in a not too shabby 23:01 - its a hilly course (though not quite Bradford as its only 2 laps not 3)...what I was most impressed with is after the hill on the 2nd lap I was able to take a place and nearly a second one by speeding up and really flowing for the last 400m or so. To have those sorts of legs after a speed session the day before is encouraging!

Will take a look at your blog a bit later. 

Duck - check out your library first - you can order books on loan for 8 weeks

Sue - are you still resting post marathon? Whats the plan moving forward for the next few months?