The Middle Ground

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06/10/2011 at 21:24

11.5 miles tonight, 95 mins.  About 8:20 miling?  Because of last night I fancied a bit of harder stuff in there, but after about two miles of warm up something didn't feel quite right, so I just kept running easy instead.

Nice 'meet', Duck.

06/10/2011 at 21:51

Ratzer - I remember seeing that study (although I always chuckle when they start with '20 equally trained endurance cyclists' or whatever). Cant fault your logic flow....... its all about the size of your cake at the end of the day. Build the engine before you press down on the accelerator too much!

Talking of which, nice cake baking session you had there this evening.

Duck - I hope you told him he had a silly name, fancy being named after a yellow stringed instrument.

07/10/2011 at 09:30

Nice one duck!  I once saw a group of elite african runners running at my club once.

A little, to say the least, negative update from me:

I have now seen 3 different physios for my hip pain yet feel like I have got nowhere.  The physio who I am seeing now works for one of the best running clubs in the country and according to him I do not have a specific injury but just that a lot of my muscels around the area are very tight.  He also says that I am getting lots of clicks because my soft muscel tissue has gone hard.

He massaged the area and stretched it out, which worked really well at first but then the benefits wore off.  I am still getting harsh pain when my muscels tense up when they take my weight and lots of clicks when I raise my knee and then weird muscel movements when I lower it.

I am getting really, really worried that I am not going to run again.  No one seems to be able to help me.  I constantly feel as if I am 2 weeks away from recovery, as I just need my muscels to relax and loosen - but they just never do!

Sorry for my ramblings.  I have asked for an MRI scan out of desperation, but what are the chances of it actually identifying a problem that is preventing my muscels from healing?

07/10/2011 at 09:41

Josh I am sorry you are struggling still. Have you thought about doing no exercise at all for a few weeks and keeping off walking etc as much as possible while you do some yoga/stretching etc?

Quick Q for Duck you said a while back if I remember rightly that you had downloaded some of the thread to re-read later? Do you still have it? I am having a good idea...possibly, but need to investigate some more and that would be really helpful for the investigation

Still not feeling 100% - 6 miles last night @ 9:10, with some strides on the end, but today I am Cant get used to working on Fridays!

Dr. Dan hope you arent feeling too nervous at the moment

07/10/2011 at 09:49
Curly - that is what I have been doing.  I was swimming, but now I am back at uni and the pool does not open until the end of the month.  The physio actually recommened I do swim.
07/10/2011 at 10:00

Curly - it's notepad file I keep with the good posts that Moraghan, prf, BR etc have posted since the beginning, it's grouped under each poster and is in reasonable chronological order. If you send me your email I'd be happy to send it along to you

Ratzer - still a nice run even if you didn't feel up to anything faster. 

Josh - not good news The fact that stretching and massage did help suggests that, to me, you're not seeing the forest for the trees. It could be that if you really (and I mean really) work on stretching and softening the soft tissue in the hip on a daily basis then it'll be back to normal eventually. Certainly looking at MRI scans would be another way forward but the most effective fix, in your case, could be one of the simplest. When I hurt me knee I thought ultrasound was the only way back, yet some work on my IT bands (multiple times a day) solved the problem.

Wokr up early this morning (I am so not a student sometimes ) so figured it was as good a time as any to get some drills and basic speed done.

Firstly did (50m drill, 50m jog, 50m stride, walkback) * 2. Did skipping, flat foot marches, high knees, bounding, shuffling and butt kicks. 

Then same basic speed from last week. 3*(30m acceleration, 45m fastest relaxed, 25m 'ease off'), which came out as 16.69, 16.72, 16.92. Then 10*100 @ 1500-40: 18.87, 18.57, 18.40, 17.65, 18.02, 17.34, 17.17, 16.62, 16.67, 15.22. All done without breakfast and in the freezing cold so dedication's not a problem right now

07/10/2011 at 11:42

Josh - Agree with Duck, if the massage helped initially it suggests its most likely to muscular. Very tight muscles will tighten up again after being loosened so you do have to keep at it. Are you doing working at loosening the area off yourslef on a daily basis? Foam roller and a trigger point ball should get at most of the areas around your hip.

Duck - Good work braving the cold and hunger!

Is anyone planning on doing the Snake Lane 10 next year? I see the entry forms are out and wondering whether to enter as it always sells out pretty quickly.

07/10/2011 at 11:59
I might well do that one again Viper ...
07/10/2011 at 11:59

Mr V - I'm not a stalker , but I was planning on doing it. My one and only 10M was back in Nov 2009! I like the 10M distance so should do it more often, although they are rare up here.

Dr Dan - good luck on Sunday.

07/10/2011 at 12:21
6 miles when under the weather is good going Curly.

– good session I think, not sure what to compare it to, but you seem happy with it so that is enough. As for dedication, I never doubted yours, I wouldn’t have done that when I was a student.

Cracking posting and running yesterday Ratzer. As for your plan to work up the distances seems logical. Kind of thinking the same way myself with some shorter races this year with 10m and HM specific work and races early next year before dropping back down to 5 and 10k racing in the summer.

Josh – stretch and roll, stretch and roll. I stretch and foam roll every night now and stretch after a run and it helps with my ongoing stiff calf problem. For me keeping my hips and hammies loose is important. ITB band tightness can be an issue as well so I give that a precautionary stretch / roll as well. You may need more intense work to sort your problem out but stretching and rolling daily is a good habbit to get into.  

Mr V – I was thinking of giving it a go as I am missing out on Thirsk this year and I can stalk you some more . I havent checked dates yet but if possible I will also run Brass Monkey and Dewsbury 10k, all around the same time of year.
How is the foot?

7 miles easy for me this morning, legs a bit tired today,  I hope they recover for the hill session I have planned for them tomorrow.

Looking forward to the racing reports on Sunday
07/10/2011 at 12:22

Mr V - it is a good one, but if it's windy...Also, yes they do sell out but are excellent at number swaps right up to the day!

Josh - have you tried just going out and doing some light running with plenty of stretching afterwards.  If the physios you've seen have said there's no real injury just muscle tightness, then surely doing some running to get the blood pumping around would allow deeper stretching. 

I've had a tight ITB and hip/sciatic nerve pain for ages - some days it's very painful ,others not too bad and sometimes I can't feel it at all.  Some discomfort/pains you have to work though in my opinion if you want to be a runner.

07/10/2011 at 12:37

YD - They are both on my radar as well. Looks like there could be some good thread meet ups around that time of year. My main issue is that some of those are quite difficult for me to get to. Foot doesn't seem too bad. I'm aware of it walking around but there's little actual discomfort. I'm hopeful that it should be ok by the time my mini break is over. I'm raring to run already though, so I should be full of motivation when I get going again. Are you still getting any trouble from your calves?

Hilly - Good to know they do number swaps, I'm more inclined to enter then and if I can't do it, it should be easy to pass the number on.

Kelly - Yeah it's a nice distance but a rare one. I've ever actually raced one.

07/10/2011 at 12:48

Thanks for the great advice as per usual.  Contributors to this thread have kept helped me keep my sanity and re-confirmed my belief that runners are the nicest sporting community around

I think I will be just stretching lots rather than using rollers.  I have tried it with rolls of foil before and I feel as if I get 'bad' pain from it as I think I might have swelling in my hip and it is not good to compress it.  I am going to suggest to my physio about doing daily running drills, such as high kness, butt kicks and skips and etc.

07/10/2011 at 12:51
Brass Monkey is 22nd Jan
Snake Lane is the 26th Feb.

Dewsbury 10k is usually in early Feb, that would make a great month of racing.

I also spotted an alternative race called the Ferriby 10 its on the 29th Jan. Its near Hull, BRilly didn’t you run that race last year? If so what did you make of it?

Mr V – you can get a lift with me to those races if you can get to Thirsk. Good news on the foot, should be fine for Scarborough. I should get organised and enter the thing now.

Edit – you asked about the calves. The answer is improving. Hardly any stiffness if I stretch and foam roll. They still get tired but less so and it takes much more training to get them that way.
My quads, glutes and hips get much more tired after runs now, I think that is a good thing as I am utilising them better and they are working harder than they were, well that’s the theory anyway.

I am heading for my 3rd consecutive 40 mile week with a 30 mile week before that, so I cant be that badly off.
Edited: 07/10/2011 at 13:13
07/10/2011 at 13:19
Mr V - I am interested in Dewsbury too. I'll check the dates, etc, but as long as we don't take the kids, I'd obviously be travelling to the various races, so you can have a lift. (Except Brass Monkey as I'll be staying at York on Sat)
07/10/2011 at 13:44

Although I was faster at Snake Lane than at Thirsk, I think that was down to feeling ill for a week or two before Thirsk. I'd guess that Thirsk could be the faster course ... Snake Lane wasn't as flat as I'd expected. But that may have been perception after doing the super-flat BM.

I went out for one final run ... 4M at 8/m with 1 mile at 7:25/m. It all felt very easy and my HR average in the 3rd mile was only 133 bpm (75% max). So, just a matter of staying healthy now ... I've been fighting off a sore throat for the past couple of days and I seem to be getting a cold now.

07/10/2011 at 13:52

Dan - plenty of orange juice, bannanas etc should do the trick. What time is race start Sunday?

Still more good news about the calves YD. 

These kinds of sessions are slightly difficult to compare against each other IMO, mainly because the distance is so short if you're a little slow accelerating it can add on an extra half-second to the time which throws it out of kilter. What I can compare though is effort, I felt like I was running fast without any unneccesary movement and felt very relaxed through each rep.  Based on reps today, I could be cheeky enough to sneak under 4:40 for the 1500m if I run very well. 

07/10/2011 at 14:21

YD/Kelly - Thanks for the lift offers, very kind.

Duck - Sounding good. Hope it goes well.

Dan - Typical . Hope it isn't anything to disrupt your performance.

07/10/2011 at 14:44

Have sent you all a fb mail about my idea

Simon can you pm me your email addy please? Or if you are on fb let me know and I will forward to you!

07/10/2011 at 15:00

interesting stuff everyone, YD i was hoping to make up some ground to catch some of your times as i think we weren't far off at the Abbey Dash last year, but now your hitting the miles again you'll be flying soon i reckon.

Hope the cold stays away Dr Dan, i'm paranoid about illness for the Cardiff half next weekend, must be worse for you as you've put in so much quality training.

PRF what track do you run at out of interest? I live in Leeds and work in Kirklees and been looking for a track to train on now and again.

Soz to hear of your injury Josh, maybe Hilly is right - a bit of gentle running to encourage blood flow might be an option? I've run (gently) through a knee twinge in the last few weeks and it's cleared up better than when i was sat and hobbling about worrying about it. Appreciate every injury is different though so hope you find a way through it.

 My training has been decent in last few weeks, had my last tough session (6 x 1 mile repeats) on Wednesday for Cardiff on the 16th. Although i've only managed about 30 miles per week, hopefully be ready upping it to 40 over winter but really struggle to stay out of gym and on the road!

 I've also lost a stone in last 6 weeks, down to 12.10 stone, so hopefully hit 12.7 by next Sunday then i can disgrace myself in Nando's after the race.

Might do Leeds parkrun tomorrow as i've just got some brand spanking new Brooks T7 racers which i asume will transform me into a prime Hicham El Huerrouj

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