Why is the emphasis on Cardiac sdrift so important

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08/10/2005 at 19:54
ND - as Pete and Timmy pointed out earlier, it is possible to train at faster than race pace for a marathon without going deep into the land of anaerobia.

To recap...

Hadd takes runners through his Phase 1, which is what the monster thread is all about. Then you work on improving the LT. The 3rd Phase is where you've been through the other two (as myself and Pete have over the past couple of years) where the marathon training has more faster running than in Phase 1 (the toothpaste squeezing phase).
09/10/2005 at 18:51
nd - Some background information. Maybe you have heard of Brother Colm? He has the most impressive coaching CV in the world and he develops talented runners, based at the St. Patrick boarding school and leads them into the world class. Check out the interview to get an idea what the Kenyan training is like. You notice the word heart rate is not even mentioned. Much more about: discipline, commitment, team bonding, ...

Regarding the Spanish training. One of our coaches is a bit of an expert on the subject and a great fan of the system. He did once a presentation for the marathon squad, and saw his presentation (just can't find it anymore). Schedule wise there is not much difference to how people traing, but the running scene/environment in Spain is more organised and allows a bit of space for semi-professionals/full time athletes backed by strong clubs. In addition easy accessible high altitude training in the Sierra Nevada.
The culture and lifestyle plays quite role.
As far as I understand the Spanish target specific championships, preferably the European Championships.
09/10/2005 at 19:07
Evening all, just reading this again has given me some doubts....

I already had a VERY tight relationship before I even considered Hadd / Lyddiard.

5k 15:37
10k - 32:08
10M - 53:00
HM - 71:01

Possibly I'm as highly aerobically trained as I'm ever going to get, and trying to go back to basics is wasting time?

Not sure though and just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?
09/10/2005 at 19:13
A couple of thoughts, Mike...

But didn't switching the focus of your training get you from 2:33 to 2:30 at FLM?

Also, once you are highly aerobically trained and you have the marathon time to show it (like you have) then for me it is improving the 10k time which then gives you extra capacity to improve your marathon time in relationship to your new 10k pb.

Also, are you planning to be at Mansfield this year for the XC relays (12th Nov)?
09/10/2005 at 19:19
Mansfield 1st, am looking at my options, booked to work that day but got a fair bit of leave outstanding. Now that my TU have been good enough to send next year's diary I can plan january and feb (by when I need to use my leave) and if I've got any left mansfield will be what I do.

I haven't actually run for a week. Did bristol with an ear infection and wanted to let that go completely and co-incide it with some kind of end of season break.

Will have a week of low mileage easy running (maybe 30 mins tomorrow, 40, then 50 a day) then start to build the volume up.

I'm still convinced that very high volume for 12 - 16 weeks, then a lower volume, slightly more specific phase is the way I want to try things this year.
09/10/2005 at 19:44
does a tight relationship between 5k,10k,1/2m, and M distances really mean that you have fully maximised your aerobic ability @ 70%, 75%, 80% HRs ?

I.e. is it no possible to continue to improve by returning to <70%, < 75%,<80%,etc. time and time again to try and squeeze out some further improvement.
09/10/2005 at 20:05
I was really asking that cartman, I don't know very much about the subject.
09/10/2005 at 23:11
Thanks URR, fascinating stuff.
It seems dedication and a long-term approach is one common element amongst all the top runners, whatever their techniques. Clearly even with talent it takes years and too many races are not good either.

Patience is something I am having to teach myself at the moment after numerous injuries. The worst time is after a good race. In that sense, a Hadd approach might well be the best for me but I was interested in the top non English-speaking runners.
09/10/2005 at 23:17
Interestingly, the article URR linked to says that it is difficult to transfer programs from one athlete to another. I think we all need to bear this in mind when making claims about what a particular training program can do - its a bit like diets.
10/10/2005 at 04:57
Some breaking news...

just to add another data point in support of Hadd's approach, a buddy of mine started training Hadd's way about 6 months ago. Along the way he's set new PRs at the mile (a road mile), 5k (twice), 5M, and half-marathon, and today, at 43, he lowered his marathon PR from 2:50:45 to 2:43:23 in Chicago.

To be fair, he's a relative "novice," only having about three years of serious running, but still, more evidence to support that Hadd's approach is a good one (not the ONLY one, but a GOOD one).
10/10/2005 at 05:17
Cartman wrote:

"does a tight relationship between 5k,10k,1/2m, and M distances really mean that you have fully maximised your aerobic ability @ 70%, 75%, 80% HRs ?"

When I started this a couple of years ago, my PR relationship from 5k to HM was pretty good. The marathon time was (and still is, as I haven't run one since) poor compared to the others, but the others wll lined up pretty well.

I've since lowered all of the others, and, ironically, my performance relationship is a little bit "worse" than it was before. But I'm faster at all distances.

So I think for most people there's probably still room to improve, unless you truly HAVE reached your peak aerobic fitness. In my case, while the relationship was good, I had committed the two mortal sins of too little mileage (25-40 mpw typically back then, with buildups to about 55 for marathons) too fast (nearly all mileage was run faster than M-pace).

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