A B and C Race

15 messages
xxxpancho    pirate
26/11/2012 at 22:54

some members who do an Ironman competion often do a (B) Race 70.3 some weeks before the main (A) Race. 

what would you do for a ( b ) race if you are training for a 70.3 ???

27/11/2012 at 09:26

sprint / standard / 70.3 / IM all good practice, the secret is to train through but still race hard.

When the gun goes - there's no B & C!

What you want to be able to do is to start training right afterwards, depends upon how serious you are, how far apart the races are etc etc.

MTRIumphant    pirate
27/11/2012 at 12:07
Race hard, it's not the way I approached it.

For my first IM, I did two 70.3's in build up, and treated both as training sessions, not races, with the aim of testing logistics, different transitions, pacing, kit, nutrition etc
flyaway    pirate
27/11/2012 at 13:10

For your first IM, there is masses to gain from doing a 70.3 as training, because you may not have run all 3 elements together and as MRI says, you can practice transition, nutrition etc.
After your first year though, I dont think this is so important, and now, I would never just "train" through a 70.3, purely because its way too much cash to spend on a training session. If I'm in a race, I'm going to race. Training can be done on your own, and after the first one, you also want to experience the higher intensity of actually racing.
So, to answer the original question, if a 70.3 was my A race, I would probably do a couple of Olympic or sprint distances in the build up, but I would certainly race them, there is zero point, IMO, in treating an Oly or sprint as a training session.

Train hard, then race hard. NFRS. Where have I heard that before...?

TR
27/11/2012 at 13:34

Also consider doing some run races on tired legs, i do a few a year where I deliberately do a longish and hard ride on the Saturday and then run a 10M or 1/2 mara on the Sunday.

flyaway    pirate
27/11/2012 at 14:49

I guess on most things, TR, it seems we are destined to disagree - but thats not to say that I think you are wrong, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat!

For me, again, I would think it a bit of a waste of money to race, if I couldnt race properly. I would run 10 - 13.1 miles on tired legs in training, sure, but I wouldnt pay for the privilage! I know people talk a lot about running on tired legs, the day after a long bike, and how this mimics the IM, but again, IMO (which, when it comes down to it, may be worth precisely squat) in an IM, you are dealing with acute fatigue, from what you've been doing the previous 6 hours or so. The day after a hard session, you have chronic fatigue, and it is different and as such, you dont get as much benefit from those back-to-back sessions as some people make out. Personally, I prefer to seperate my long bike and run by a couple of days, because I feel I get better training from them that way, but I know this isnt possible for everyone, so ultimately, you do what works for you.
I guess overall, i just think you ought to know WHY you are doing a session, and that includes in relation to other sessions.

Even I am now bored of the sound of my own typing, so I shall be quiet now.

TR
27/11/2012 at 15:04

Flyaway - different strokes for different folks indeed. I'm not the best at doing hard running in training very often, so find doing the odd run race tired replicates the heavy legged running of a triathlon and makes me push myself. Also I have not put any specific run race prep into these races so already know its not going to be a stellar performance. To be fair I dont think I'm much slower than I would be fresh anyway. Maybe it would be better to finish the bike ride 5mins before the run race starts.

27/11/2012 at 15:17

Good slightly off-topic discussions there....

I raced Bala before my first IM and smashed it, felt worse at the end than i did at the IM. Went into it thinking I'd do IM pacing etc - too competitive I suppose.

I've training run a mara at IM effort before and I've also run a mara as part of a 4 day training block, back out on the bike the next day but I'd usually not pay for my long runs. Although I've trained through all my running races recently. Its sometimes good to go out hard but that doesn't mean you need to be fresh.

This year I'm doing sprints, standards, full and halfs as build up to my A race and I'll train through them all but still race as hard as possible.

So there's 3 options from 3 people - do whatever you feel comfortable with and tailor to your goals.

TR
27/11/2012 at 15:47

Sorry, I should have pointed out that I mainly do 1/2 IM and the question was asked re that distance. 1/2 IM run pace is quite hard running (~MP ?) so I do the odd "tired" 1/2 mara in the build up which works out at bit faster than MP. Might be a daft idea, but it seems to work for me as I seem to run pretty well at 1/2IM although I'm a stronger runner than swimmer or biker anyway.
I've also done some evening 5K races in a local summer series where I do my usual days training and the just hammer the 5k as fast as I can on the day. Again might be daft, but I'm not going to win the races or set any WR's even if I was fresh,

meface    pirate
27/11/2012 at 22:30

Just to add more questions to the mix.

How do view the 70.3?
Is it harder than you have ever done in any discipline? Do you view as an acheivement just to complete the 70.3 (which is not a walk in the park apart from for the loonies on here).

How many triathlons have you done?
None, 1, lots

What I am thinking
If you think a 70.3 is almost impossible then an Olympic will give you confidence on the distances. If you have run 8 marathons and done 43 century rides and swam the channel then the distances of a 70.3 are hardly going to terrify you. In which case a few Sprints would give you the confidence and the skills to get through the transitions both practically and athletically. You could race Sprints back to back for a couple of weeks and it shouldn't affect training too much.

I also agree with Gary, train through, hardly taper for the event, the day off before is OK and don't nail a big session 2 days before. Then race hard, an olympic will not take long to recover from but a day off and an easy day to get back would be sensible.

Yes many doing IMs use a 70.3 as a pacing/nutrition session but equally as many will race a 70.3 hard as part fo the build-up. The more experience the more likely they are to use it to race hard as they don't see the need for a pacing/nutrition check.

Hope this helps

M..eface

28/11/2012 at 10:40

*like*

28/11/2012 at 11:53

I came very close to doing two tris in a day last year - a sprint in the morning; an off road standard in the afternoon - but sadly the time to get from one venue to the other was too short to make it viable as I wouldn't have got to the start of the 2nd in time.   it was going to be a test of how my body managed on the day as I do tend to go balls out at both those distances.  

pity it never came off - could have been an interesting test!

28/11/2012 at 13:50

I'm planning a standard on Sat and full on Sunday this year plus a couple of big training days in the lead up - could be interesting!

citizen 146    pirate
28/11/2012 at 14:45

fb, you should do this when scheduling allows ,let us lesser mortals know how it goes as this is the stuff of inspiration , mix and match!

meface    pirate
28/11/2012 at 22:18

I suggested it on here for the Vachery. Road sprint in the morning, off-road sprint in the afternoon. Didn't do it due to low wife approval.


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