Armstrong Ban

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14/06/2012 at 11:10

(Most likely already said elsewhere)

CAS perhaps already checking the 2017 diary for any gaps to squeeze this one in?

Interesting to note back in '10 the UCI gave Mr Armstrong a 4 out of 10 score for those it suspected of doping.

AndrewSmith    pirate
14/06/2012 at 11:13

And that 'score table' listing was a joke and was widely criticised!

AndrewSmith    pirate
14/06/2012 at 11:13

To add, not because of just Armstrong but the whole principle of it.

Dubai Dave    pirate
14/06/2012 at 11:33

Whatever the merits of the case how come Contador was allowed to continue racing until his case was heard and Armstrong can't race whilst under investigation?

oii
14/06/2012 at 11:51
fat buddha wrote (see)

here's another interesting article - http://inrng.com/2012/06/usada-charges-armstrong/

I like this bit at the end:

  • Like loyal footsoldiers, fans will take their cues and soon start tearing strips off each other. I can understand both sides. But go for a ride to let off steam as there’s little new evidence here for now.
  • Finally there is a good chance this all drags on and on, ending up in the Court of Arbitration for Sport in 2013 or beyond.

FB - this article is good reading, especially the leaked charge letter.

Just seems like a witch hunt (as previously mentioned). USADA still reacting from when Tyler Hamilton said on CBS that he had seen LA using EPO and more than once.... But are the two riders coming forwards and grassing on LA, a result of LA being a totally uber competitive piece of work and rubbing fellow riders up the wrong way? Or did he dope? As previously mentioned on this thread, he is a phenomenal athlete either way. Surely you would have to be pretty special in the first place, to be that good on a small amount of naughtiness - as if you did loads of illegal you would get caught early?

Reading that charge letter, there are some huge names in trouble hey? Trying to explain this to people at work who are pretending to look interested.

I am annoyed they have stopped him racing, as i really enjoyed following his antics as a pro cyclist and was doubly loving him killing it in 70.3 (after a couple of outings that can hardly be called failures). Was looking forward to getting in the long run early next sunday morning and following the live stream from IM France next Sunday.

Edited: 14/06/2012 at 11:53
14/06/2012 at 12:00
Dubai Dave wrote (see)

Whatever the merits of the case how come Contador was allowed to continue racing until his case was heard and Armstrong can't race whilst under investigation?

they are covered under separate rules.  Contador was allowed as he was under UCI jurisdiction which allows racing until proven guilty; LA is racing tri as a WTC pro and WTC have banned him racing WTC events under their rules - banned whilst "under investigation".  but that ban is also "subject to review" to add extra interest!!!

that doesn't stop LA racing non WTC events unless USAT have the same rule but I don't see LA doing that - his focus was on IM and he was a WTC ambassador.

14/06/2012 at 13:28

 He doped, everyone that has any real interest in cycling knows that or else is wilfully ignoring the evidence. 

He wasn't the only one that doped of course - he won by the unwritten rules of the peloton at that time - though of course not everyone that dopes benefits to the same amount and it seems likely Armstrong benefitted more than most.  

But most of his rivals have now been banned at some point - so it's his turn.   He actually came back and it seems now was doping during his comeback when the peloton seems to have been trying to clean itself up - the argument they were all at it is perhaps no longer applicable by 2009.  THere are also plenty who have presented convincing arguments that he's made quite a bit of personal gain out of his cancer charity.   Plus the way he treated Simeoni for talking about doping.   

So all in he deserves all he gets over this - I'd have more respect if he could be a man and fess up.

14/06/2012 at 16:24

Very very few sportspeople do confess, there is alway mitigating circumstances, or the sportsperson received a drug without their knowledge. Is it my imagination or didn't he test positive for EPO in or around 1999 before it was put on the banned list? 

Cheerful Dave    pirate
14/06/2012 at 16:40
popsider wrote (see)
 Plus the way he treated Simeoni for talking about doping.   

That's always grated with me TBH, it said more about him as a person than any of the denials.  I've never realy understood why he would behave like that when he knew the cameras were on him.

Plus he overtook me once at the Boston Marathon, obviously due to performance-enhancing stimulants.  Deserves all he gets I say.

14/06/2012 at 16:58
Cheerful Dave wrote (see)
popsider wrote (see)
 Plus the way he treated Simeoni for talking about doping.   

That's always grated with me TBH, it said more about him as a person than any of the denials.  I've never realy understood why he would behave like that when he knew the cameras were on him.

 

Me too.  I thought that was completely appalling behaviour, and showed his true colours.

Opinions will vary on whether he doped, but that behaviour proved he is a complete shit.

14/06/2012 at 17:08

I don't think LA is any more arrogant than many other top sportspeople with lots of money - think of the multi-millionaire shits who play wendyball and their utter arrogance.

it's almost a given that you have to be a twat at the highest sporting excellence whether that's the way you treat other people, the way you conduct your life, the way you deny taking drugs etc etc etc

of course, that's a sweeping generalisation - there are many humble ones as well - but you rarely hear of them.

Doner Kebab    pirate
14/06/2012 at 17:10

i dont give a poo

tbh watching cycling, swimming or running on TV bores me after 30 minutes, triathlons can hold me for maybe an hour. I love the events that I enter and the events that people I know take place in but apart from that - no thanks - Am I alone in this point view or do most of you follow everything tri related?

14/06/2012 at 17:18

I love watching cycling and have done for years, I feel that most fans understand that at some point the whole peleton were on the gear....even today i bet the line between legal or not is constantly being tested.

The whole LA thing is sad purely from the Livestrong charity side...if he cheated to win TdeF then strip him, void that year and move on, don't bother giving to someone else now.

But if this turn out to be BS and he is cleared again..then please can this be the end of it.

14/06/2012 at 21:12
Doner Kebab wrote (see)

i dont give a poo

tbh watching cycling, swimming or running on TV bores me after 30 minutes, triathlons can hold me for maybe an hour. I love the events that I enter and the events that people I know take place in but apart from that - no thanks - Am I alone in this point view or do most of you follow everything tri related?

I don't watch sport either, of any kind. 

Watching a bunch of strangers do sport doesn't do it for me, but I read, and Bad Blood (about the TdF) was very interesting.

meface    pirate
14/06/2012 at 21:45

I have always wondered if maybe he didn't dope but clearly was taking drugs during his cancer treatment - at least I assume he was. That treatment, clearly medically required, may have had some long term benefits. At the very least it may change his perception of pain threshold.

This latest bout is pathetic, one sample that 'may' be suspect but even the lab won't stand behind the sample.

Given the amount of attempts they have all had at pinning something on him and failed I think WTC should allow him to race. If it proves positive, which is unlikely, then strip him.

WTC should admit there may be a case to answer and state that if guilty then he will be dishonourably discharged and kicked in the nuts. Until then race away.

To be honest I suspect that many of the triathlon pros may take banned substances in the future (given flu remedy is on the banned list) and therefore shouldn't be allowed to race ever - ban all the pros!!

M.eface

Now for the silly bit.

May favorite bit is the British Triathlon Federation ban anything that is performance enhancing which always makes me laugh. TT bikes are performance enhancing, as is a good diet, and even training. The Brownlees have even gone on record to say they have trained - it is clearly perfromance enhancing so ban them.

 

Dark Vader    pirate
14/06/2012 at 21:46

An interesting development in the story...:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18441436

 

Doner Kebab    pirate
14/06/2012 at 21:49
That's ok then. I haven't got a TT bike, my diet is crap and my training is even worse , I'm their model triafleet
15/06/2012 at 09:25

I didn't realise that the USADA have only charged him and don't have the power to ban him from competing...so it looks like the IM france lot have taking that decision and excluded him from their race....does seem rather odd

Cheerful Dave    pirate
15/06/2012 at 09:36
m.eface wrote (see)
May favorite bit is the British Triathlon Federation ban anything that is performance enhancing which always makes me laugh. TT bikes are performance enhancing, as is a good diet, and even training. The Brownlees have even gone on record to say they have trained - it is clearly perfromance enhancing so ban them.

The triathlon magazines are chock full of adverts for gels, supplements, drinks etc all sold on the basis that they'll improve performance or aid recovery.  Which is exactly what the banned stuff is supposed to do.  The line has to be drawn somewhere, it just seems a bit arbitrary sometimes.  I mean, caffeine is OK (up to a point) but LSD isn't?

Flat Foo.ted wrote (see)

I didn't realise that the USADA have only charged him and don't have the power to ban him from competing...so it looks like the IM france lot have taking that decision and excluded him from their race....does seem rather odd

It's the WTC that have banned him from all of their events rather than the IMFr organisers specifically.  Perhaps he'll come & race the Outlaw instead.

15/06/2012 at 09:37

DV - the charge against the doctors has been there from the start if you look at the document leaked by the NY Times.  essentially USADA are charging key figures in what was the old US Postal Team - that includes LA, Johann Bruyneel (team manager) and the quacks - which was party government funded.   that's the nub if USADA's charges

FF - WTC have a clause in their pro contracts (which LA is racing IM events under) which bans any athlete "under investigation" from racing in their events - although there is a rider that states "and is subject to review" which could allow him back in.   UCI/ITU/USAT rules allow athletes to continue racing while under investigation - the ban only comes when they are proven guilty and can be retrospective (as per Contador etc) but of course LA isn't racing their events.

there is a curious parellel with Marion Jones who was always suspected of doping but always tested clean - she only got banned on her own admission of doing so and through that she helped finger a large number of others involved in supplying and cover up.

IF LA was to do the same, assuming of course he DID dope (let the jury decide), then it might help clear the sport clean up but at the same time he has so much to lose, let alone credibility.

Edited: 15/06/2012 at 09:38
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