Cr@p Swimmers R Us

Swimming Support Thread

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30/03/2009 at 22:39
Thanks Blondie. My crawl is faster but I can't do it for long, need a rest every few lengths- just training I guess and some coaching, read back in the thread a bit and that seems to be a common theme.
PSC    pirate
31/03/2009 at 08:32
OO, sounds like you are going into oxygen debt if you are having to stop every couple of lengths.  Slow down........ as in slow your stroke rate down.  What breathing do you do - bilateral (every 3rd stroke) or every other stroke?  Practice counting strokes so that you know how many you do a length when swimming at a sensible training pace.  Then stick to that stroke count.  Get some coaching to make your stroke more efficient...  bent arm uderwater, high elbow in recovery, long glide phase etc etc... all these elements help to  make you more efficient (ie faster and less energy).  And, as Will says, the more time you spend in the water, the better you get.........
31/03/2009 at 09:45

Yes I still have to stop for a breather every two to four lengths.  I've watched the coach teaching my children front crawl and when he shows them the water entry bit with his arm, he is pushing his whole shoulder as a follow through to the arm going into the water, and gliding that same arm. 

I've tried breathing every third stroke, but was too breathless and have settled on every other stroke on the same side now.  It's just trial and error to find what suits you. 

Oh and when I asked the coach why I couldn't do more than a couple of lengths before having to stop, he just said 'you're swim unfit - just swim more often'.  Mind you he is a p*ss-taker of a coach. 

Edited: 31/03/2009 at 09:48
31/03/2009 at 09:47
Olney one - just the same as running. To get faster you need to GO faster. Do intervals rather than just getting in and swimming the same set each time. Use what you know from running to structure a swim set with hard intervals and active recoveries.
WildWill    pirate
31/03/2009 at 15:03
I do 3 different sessions as 2 of them are in my lunch time so i have limited time, they are (normally) -

Drill Session - Warm up then drills
Interval Session - shorter intervals
long session - Longer intervals OR non stop swim

Bionic Ironwolf    pirate
31/03/2009 at 16:01

Olney - listen to Dr. Nic, she's the resident Channel swimmer and knows a thing or two about training.

Our trainer gives us lots of fast intervals work as well as steady swims and some drills.

Edited: 31/03/2009 at 16:01
Bionic Ironwolf    pirate
01/04/2009 at 07:34

Tri club swim last night was really really tough!

400m warmup
6 x (15m sprint/35m easy)
100m TT
200m recovery
200m TT
800m (200 normal, 100m left arm only, 100m right arm only, 200m breaststroke, 200m normal)
2 x 400m (100m fast, 100m fist drill, 200m catch-up drill with pull-bouy)

400m cooldown.

My 100m TT was another PB, 1:59:03 - that's my first ever swim under 2mins, and a whole 8 seconds faster than last week. Our coach is amazing, she said before the swim, you're going under 2min tonight, to which I thought "Huh". And I felt like I was really swimming poorly, thought I would get a slow time.

WildWill    pirate
01/04/2009 at 07:41
well done on the PB
Bionic Ironwolf    pirate
01/04/2009 at 07:47
Thanks - I am really really pleased.
WildWill    pirate
01/04/2009 at 07:59
Im hoping to get a lunchtime drill session tomorow and a longer swim on Friday
PSC    pirate
01/04/2009 at 08:25

this is an interesting article... and runs contrary to what many on here believe (including me).

X Tri swim training article

01/04/2009 at 09:18
Great article PSC. I only say great because it is how I think about it
Bionic Ironwolf    pirate
01/04/2009 at 12:07
Don't agree with the article. Less skilled swimmers use a lot more effort and energy, yes, but if you don't do some drills to work on your motor skills your stroke remains poor. Novice swimmers should never be advised to use paddles, for reasons some of us already listed previously. Many of our masters group have improved their tri swims enormously by attending the tri club coached swimming , which generally runs between 3000m and 4000m per session. I personally reduced my 1500m tri time by over 6 minutes last season. Proof of the pudding?
01/04/2009 at 13:45

I don't think the guy is saying if your technique is poor don't improve it. To me he is saying working only on your technique (especially on low mileage) isn't going to make you a quicker swimmer. From reading this thread it is clear that you don't only work on technique but do lots of interval stuff as well.

I don't do much drill work but do sessions where I focus my attention on improving certain aspects of my stroke and I tend to do interval sessions as well. I have improved by 16 minutes on my 1500 metres time in under 2 years but don't see that it proves much.

Stick with what you enjoy and what works for you, but don't be blinkered to thinking there is one right way.

Bionic Ironwolf    pirate
01/04/2009 at 15:54
I'm not blinkered - just like in most things, there's no one size fits all answer. But all the things I've read from top pros and old pros like Macca, Stadler, Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Gordo etc. all seem to say you need to concentrate on one sport at a time, with the odd "brick" of two sports or in their case, 3 in one day. Most of us just can't manage that, both for time and body reasons. Some of the training plans I've looked at even say to sometimes do maybe a whole week of just one sport, then change to one of the others. There's so much variation. What it comes down to is what works for you.
01/04/2009 at 16:18

UW - I don't see that the article is actually saying anything different than you! It would seem good advice to say if you have limited time to swim (3 x 2000 metres is limited compared to the guys you list) then don't use it all doing drills, rather make sure you are also working on speed. t some point if you want to swim quciker you are going to have practice swimming quicker and not just work on your technique (I know you do). Maybe I misunderstood the article but to me it doesn't say don't work on your technique (do drills) but don't use all your limited time on this.

To me a good balance approach is the one WildWill mentioned on the last page.

01/04/2009 at 16:19

WildWills approach:

Drill Session - Warm up then drills
Interval Session - shorter intervals
long session - Longer intervals OR non stop swim

PSC    pirate
01/04/2009 at 18:22
I've read his other articles on X Tri too and I rather like his approach to tri in general although initially found some of comments a bit odd.  He treats runbikeswim as the sport rather than the three elements indivually.  Therefore you need to train to link them together and perhaps recognise that you won't ever achieve max success at any one.  On that basis I support his approach, however, as i do all of my swim training with a swim club I am now firmly in the groove of swim training to swim rather than swim training to tri....   and this is perhaps where the conflict exists.  I do mix it up a bit - concentrate on the arms, do drills and rarely put in a long swim.  I also do intervals as to swim faster you need to swim fast (I think that's one of your quotes IW).  So, on that basis, and having read the article 3 times now.... I think old Sergio has it about right.  That doesn't help the breathless ones on here.....
01/04/2009 at 20:56

30 lengths of front crawl tonight.  It began as it always does with a heart attack impression after every two lengths, heart rate going through the roof, then something interesting happened at length 18 (pay attention OO) I reached equilibrium.  My input was matching my output and I was slower than when I started, but I was not out of breath (well not too much) and was able to stand for about 10 seconds or so at each end (not the deep end, as this would mean drowning ) and then go straight into another length.  I stopped at 30 lengths because I ran out of time.  Never thought I'd be posting that!  

We had a wally in the lane tonight, he started off on one side of the lane (bearing in mind you can just about fit three people across the lane) and as he went along he moved further and further over to the other side, the other side that people were swimming up.  Nobody was brave enough to tell him what he was doing - he genuinely had no idea.  Bless...   

PSC    pirate
02/04/2009 at 06:40
woohoo well done Blondiee...
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