Cut off times in races

How to best decide?

13 messages
kittenkat    pirate
07/03/2012 at 07:23
What do you think should be the main determining factors for these, especially when you get to ultra long distance?

Safety? Cost? The integrity of the race? The amount the competitor has paid in entry?

I think there can be many reasons why it's not as straight forward decision as it first looks??

Do you think they have been about right for the races you have done/are thinking of doing? And why?
D74
07/03/2012 at 08:09

1) Safety

2) Safety

3) See 1+2

That's it.  'Integrety of the race?'.  Sorry, but by who's standards are you going to judge that?  What about the 70 year old age group national rep?  I personally would only see the cut offs as being needed for the safety of the competitors or of the crew (in terms of requiring the swim crew to be available on the run / in the finish area (safety of competitors) or being out on the course stood still, in possible inclement weather (safety of crew).

Plum    pirate
07/03/2012 at 08:26

Agreed 

And I think it should be the organisers standard of safety that is the rule that is adherd to, after all it is they who carry the can if it goes wrong.     If they say it is not safe to carry on after a certain time period because of lighting/traffic/marshalling or whatever other issues that affect the safety of either the competitors or the mrshalls thn that is the rule and anyone wanting to carry on off their own back should be made to sign to that effect. It is not just the competitors who are affectd by th conditions but all the support services put in place for that event

07/03/2012 at 11:00

A lot of club-organised races struggle to find members willing to marshal, and even more so to find people willing be marshals on the last part of the course.

A club which organises a well-respected marathon couldn't find enough volunteers from their own club - so my club volunteered some help.

Having stood in the pouring rain a mile before the finish, waiting for the last few to come in, I dearly wished for a tighter cut-off time!

I did notice that the race director stuck the volunteers from another club on the tail end of the race, and put his own members in the 'better' positions!

07/03/2012 at 11:02
+2 for safety

I guess D74 and I as tri refs have this instilled in us - safety is always the first concern for race directors and refs. anything else is supplementary to that
07/03/2012 at 11:28
It's a combination of things isn't it. You have to ensure safety but you might also consider the volunteer marshalls stood out there for hours on end, other races might even stick cut offs in there as part of the challenge.
kittenkat    pirate
07/03/2012 at 19:53
popsider wrote (see)
It's a combination of things isn't it. You have to ensure safety but you might also consider the volunteer marshalls stood out there for hours on end, other races might even stick cut offs in there as part of the challenge.

'Part of the challenge' was kind of what I was getting at with integrity, but I'm not sure I used the best word and D74 (good to see you, how's the knee? Was it your knee, it's been so long!) came back with a really good response about age group.

Wilkie I know about the whole volunteer thing, and it always ends up being the same people.

But we all know that's true of committee members etc etc...

We have a very successful tri club and a very successful main running club here, with combined membership of hundreds... But you see the same faces on the committees and marshaling, organising etc..

That's not meant as a 'wholier than thou' or criticism of people who take part in events but I think that if people belong to a club and take part in often subsidesed good training sessions for members, then they should give back, in however small a way.

D74
07/03/2012 at 22:33

(was ankle.  First race back was supposed to have been last Saturday, but sadly the weather turned that into a half race on Sunday. Still a cyclist that races in triathlons though.......    )

08/03/2012 at 22:42
become a race director, set a race up, decide on a cut off, wait for entries, if you think you can't make the cut off, don't enter,

schimples, its all in the mind, if you think you can, you will.
22/03/2012 at 11:34

Thread resurrection alert....

I'm the organiser of the Celtman Extreme Tri (www.cxtri.com) this Summer, and this has question has been one that's foremost in my mind.

I decided on cut offs almost entirely on the basis of safety, for both competitors and volunteers. I don't want people still on the mountain after dark (even though we will most likely have some leeway as the race is a long way north, and on midsummer weekend).

 I've also included a physical cut-off. If you're judged (by the race medics) to be in an unsuitable condition to go up the mountain, we'll divert you onto the low leve route, or stop you completely. It's a potentially dangerous environment anyway, and certainly so if someone's in bits by then.

I don't want my marshalls up there for longer than necessary either. The guys on the hill will be Mountain Rescue Team, and so well equipped. But, even for them there's a limit....

 I want as many people as possible to complete the high level ('Blue Shirt') route, but this can't be open-ended - it's just not safe.

Safety, safety, safety. They're the only important factors.

Cheers

Paul

meface    pirate
22/03/2012 at 21:00

So we are all agreed:

1. Safety - Marshals

2. Safety - Competitors

3. Safety - Spectators

4. Practicality (road/traffic restrictions, cost)

5. Event target demographic/Elitism/History (e.g. Boston or Comrades)

 Did you know that there is a great event you can do called the Celtman Extreme Tri. It is Triathlon, Extreme, andnot available to women, or men who aren't Celts. Good news is it can't be expensive as they aren't even bothering to pay for adverts.

23/03/2012 at 09:14

 Did you know that there is a great event you can do called the Celtman Extreme Tri. It is Triathlon, Extreme, andnot available to women, or men who aren't Celts. Good news is it can't be expensive as they aren't even bothering to pay for adverts.

And one that's sold out, and has nothing to gain from advertising   I just thought I might take some time to respond to a question that's been asked, as I have a perspective on this that no-one else had covered. That's the point of forums, right?.

Someone a little overtired?.

Cheers

Paul

meface    pirate
26/03/2012 at 22:48
Paul McG wrote (see)

 Did you know that there is a great event you can do called the Celtman Extreme Tri. It is Triathlon, Extreme, andnot available to women, or men who aren't Celts. Good news is it can't be expensive as they aren't even bothering to pay for adverts.

And one that's sold out, and has nothing to gain from advertising   I just thought I might take some time to respond to a question that's been asked, as I have a perspective on this that no-one else had covered. That's the point of forums, right?.

Someone a little overtired?.

Cheers

Paul

Paul,

We welcome your input.

A company that has nothing to gain from advertising, really. Must tell that cola company and the fruit based technology company what muppets they are!

Did you read the terms and conditions when you signed up to the forum to make your 4 posts (2 of which are in this thread and mention your event and handily include links) The other 2 are identical and include links to 5 of your events.

So a total of 4 posts and 12 links to your events. Quite an outstanding contribution to the forum, I really don't know what we would with out you

T&Cs

E.15 In addition complying with the restrictions in Conditions G.1, G.2 and G.3 you confirm that you shall not upload or post on this website any informational or other materials:

(a) that have the primary purpose of promoting any goods or services that you or anyone connected with you supplies, or of denigrating the goods or services of any of your competitors;

 G.1 c also worth a read as you may have inadvertantly handed over copyright to such things as your event names!

 I suppose you could claim with this post that it wasn't the primary purpose but the other two you basically state that is what you are doing:


Paul McG wrote (see)

Hi All

Yes, 1st post and I'm punting something already .


 So am I a little over-tired. No not really, if you mean in the physical sense. However if you mean in the, am I tired of people self promoting their own events without paying the approporiate fees to runnersworld, then probably I am.

Anyway as I said we really appreciate your input to the forums via your 4 self promoting posts.

 M.eface


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