Electronic Shifting and wheels?

is it worth it.

21 to 40 of 43 messages
Doner Kebab    pirate
09/01/2012 at 00:16

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/wheel-sets/product/review-zipp-404-firecrest-carbon-clinchers-11-45315

 if i was you, i would research what i actually want and WHY, and not let salesmen sway you - then its your mistake, no good blaming the salesman because your brakes are grabby or not that effective after you just spent 2.5k on wheels.

saying that though - if your spending about £7-8k(?) on a bike you can afford to sell the mistakes - ill give 1k for your wheels if you dont like them 

cougie    pirate
09/01/2012 at 00:40
Yes considering you're ordering on Tuesday - you seem a bit vague.
I spend months working out exactly what I want - its the best bit !
What do you ride now ?
Dubai Dave    pirate
09/01/2012 at 04:45

I cant say how long Zipps last for in the grime and dirt of the UK road system, but my 404's which are so old they are pre dimples have survived the best part of 10,000 miles without going out of true or any other problems. Of course these are not firecrest and therefore do not have carbon braking surfaces but in my experience Zipps Will last just as long as any other wheel if ridden daily, they just cost more. I don't see the point of keeping Zipps for race day only, you have spent all that money on a set of wheels so you might as well use them, otherwise you will have probably retired before you ever get near to wearing them out.

I certainly haven't paid 1400 pounds for either the set of 404's or 808's, admittedly I avoid VAT but you have to dive in when these things are on offer. The 808 front wheel which is a 2010 pre carbon rim / firecrest clincher was under 450 pounds in December 2011 from Wiggle.

Its all subjective anyway, no different to buying a car when very few people buy the most economical or the most practical model but do buy the one that looks good in their eyes and if you can have a few extras like bling wheels, air con, sun roof, leather seats etc all well and good. You don't then buy a second cheap car to keep the good one for  the weekends do you? In other words squeakz  if you can afford it buy whatever you want.

Darkness    pirate
09/01/2012 at 06:46
I fitted DI2 to my tri bike and feel it really is superb. I only did so though because neither I nor my LBS could adequately solve a cable run problem on the bike which meant shifting was less accurate than I wanted. DI2 is always precise, doesn't degrade over time as cables get dirty and will get the chain on and off the big ring even if you have left it later than you should have to change. If I am ever splashing big cash on a bike again I will definitely go electronic, and by way of comparison I have Super Record on my road bike but prefer the DI2. There is no need for it though as a well set up mechanical Dura Ace also operates brilliantly on a road bike without complicated cable routing. I am not a fan of SRAM.

Good luck with your choice, enjoy!



Cheerful Dave    pirate
09/01/2012 at 09:04
Dubai Dave wrote (see)
I don't see the point of keeping Zipps for race day only, you have spent all that money on a set of wheels so you might as well use them, otherwise you will have probably retired before you ever get near to wearing them out.

Yebbut you have nice smooth roads and decent weather, not the potholes we have here.  Use them more than just race day for sure, but all year round?  Nope. 
cougie    pirate
09/01/2012 at 09:29
You can pick up decent wheels for £200 or less. I would use those for every day training and save the nice wheels for summer and races. The roads round here ate in a shocking state and we've not yet had winter.
09/01/2012 at 10:18

t's difficult because it's your money and why not spend it on a flash bike if that's what you want - nothing against that at all.  But at the same time you want the right tool for the job - the most expensive doesn't necessarily mean best depending on what you want it for.

For wheels the out and out fastest on a flat course and still conditions is usually going to be a disc and tri spoke or similar - but you obviously aren't going to do all your riding on them.   I would take the advice of some on here and compromise on getting two sets of wheels - one for race day, sportives etc and then one for training - that way you can get a set of full carbon rims such as your zipps, Dura Ace 50mm tubulars etc and then if you want you can still buy nice clincher wheels for training and you can then use them if you race a technical course in the wet - the Dura Ace shallow section always get good reviews - obviously you can get good wheels for less but they are top end of that kind of wheel.

The Venge is really a road racing bike not designed for TTs or Triathlon but if you want that why not.   If you don't want a tri bike then the other alternatives would be the bikes designed to double up - the Cervelo S series (think they still have a flippable seat post?) and I think the Neil Pryde bikes (DD has one I think ?).    If you can get a good position with tri bars on the Venge though and that's what floats your boat then nothing wrong with it (though as Cougs says it's probably very stiff).   I know I'm not really flexible enough to get the best out of a full on TT bike even though I do have one - though having said that I am faster on it than a road bike with clip ons so it must make some difference.

 Whatever you get though at that kind of level it's going to be very nice - there is no perfect bike that does everything so whatever you get it's going to be some kind of compromise for most of the riding you do - the alternative is multiple bikes and multiple wheelsets.  

09/01/2012 at 10:18
if you're looking at carbon Zipp 404's then a word of warning. on our recent bike trip to Colombia, one of the guys had a set on his Pinarello - the front wheel lasted 3 days before it fell apart. the roads in Colombia were not a lot worse than many of the UK's finest with potholes galore, although at times the road surface would disappear altogether!!

in summary, they may not last the course if you use them for training - fine for racing on smooth roads, but not for everyday use imho.

as an aside to that - his Pinarello frame also eventually failed - it was a top end carbon one and the chainstay broke. shall we say, he had an expensive trip......

so - carbon is fine but make sure it can stand the rigours of everyday riding on crappy road surfaces

also on the trip we had one bike with Di2 shifters (on a Cervelo P2) - that lasted the trip fine and I don't think the rider had any problems. BUT if something had gone wrong she would have been stuffed trying to get it fixed in Colombia as dealers and mechanics for it are as rare as rocking horse crap. so again - if you go electronic, look at where you ride it and what backup is available if something goes wrong.

and as a further aside - both the Pinarello rider and the Di2 rider were medics. more money than sense maybe???

Edited: 09/01/2012 at 10:23
09/01/2012 at 13:42
cougie wrote (see)
Yes considering you're ordering on Tuesday - you seem a bit vague. I spend months working out exactly what I want - its the best bit ! What do you ride now ?


stock felt AR4 at the moment which is an ok bike imho, chosen on looks rather than anything else being honest. The venge I really like the look of so my other half has decided to treat me.
The components I like such as the zipps, to be honest I do so for the appearance as much as anything, but the guys in the shop has questioned this based on durability as such I felt it was worth checking with people more experienced than myself.
The electronic shifters consideration is simply because im a geek and thought it was really cool but wished to know the reality of living with them.

Im neither fast or over competitive in my running or biking, I like the venge because it makes me smile, I think its a lovely looking bike, wish I could be more knowledgeable about these things but im not at this time... The biggest thing I wished to establish I think was if zipp wheels and electronic gearset was going to effect my enjoyment of the bike greatly which is the single biggest thing for me.

Thanks for the help and advise everyone, ill get some pictures of the bike up soon as its in my hands

cougie    pirate
09/01/2012 at 13:51
You can mix and match the groupset too - use the Ultegra DI2 shifting system - levers and mechs as they've been refined over the first DA incarnation.
Use the DA chainset as its lighter than the Ultegra version. And use whatever brakes you fancy really. Will save your other half a fair bit of money over DA.

If you're not ultra competitive then I'd just go with normal tyres over tubs. Much easier to live with.
09/01/2012 at 14:08
"the alternative is multiple bikes and multiple wheelsets"

and I guess that's the solution for many of us who want specific bikes for specific tasks as no "one size fits all". I guess if I was to tot up the costs of all my bikes and spend it on one bike, then a Venge would be "cheap", but I prefer compromises on a value for money basis.

and would I get any better performance for spending more on one bike?? perhaps, but I suspect it would be marginal, so I'll stick with the n+1 principle...


and I'll wait to get my hands on the Campag EPS groupo......
cougie    pirate
09/01/2012 at 14:17
I'd say that for the cost of the Venge you'd be able to get three cracking bikes for different purposes. The one bike that gets the most use out of all of mine is a cheap steel fixed wheel. Full mudguards and lights on it - so it gets the winter duties and commuting. And its as much fun to ride as any other bike I've had. And I've had custom built steel with top of the range groupsets before. Its not so much what you ride as the journeys you make on it. If that makes sense ?
Bouncing Barlist    pirate
09/01/2012 at 14:41

You dont have to be fast or competitive to ride a nice bike, im a relatively slow cyclist but 3 years ago I bought a Cervelo P3 with all the best kit at the time.  The bike is still running perfectly but only comes out from the spring and on race day.  Had I been riding it as a training bike im sure it would be wrecked by now.

I bought the bike as I knew what I wanted and had researched it for a considerable time.  I spent a whole day in a bike shop having the bike made to measure etc etc.  Aside from the cervelo I have another bike I use for training which is pretty bomb proof.  This means its a pleasure to get on the P3 when the weather is better.

I know Dubai Daves rates the durability of Zipp 404's but with carbon braking surfaces like mine id not fancy them lasting long with road the amount of road salt and grit in the UK over winter.  With carbon surfaces you need specific brakes like the SwissStop I suggested earlier, average rubber pads can grab, tear themselves apart and or melt under heavy braking (as I found nearly to my cost a couple of years ago.

By all means get the Venge and get it with the kit you want, just make sure it fits you and is the right tool for the job you want it to do.

Im not going to rule out being in a similar position to you in a couple of years (i.e. looking to buy a new bike), ive currently got my eye on a Cervelo S5 frame and just waiting to justify the expense of another bling bike.  The P5 would complement my training bike & TT bike, be for summer training, sportives and hillier long course races.   I guess im using this as an example to say that I wont be going ahead with such a significant and costly purchase until ive fully researched the bike and suitability down to every component.

14/01/2012 at 14:36
Picking the bike up tommorow ended up with two sets of zip 404 firecrests, Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 electronic shifting, S-Works carbon crankset. I will get some pics up
Dubai Dave    pirate
14/01/2012 at 14:47
nice
Dustboy    pirate
14/01/2012 at 14:55
Specialist bling bikes make you feel special, even if you are absolutely useless. I should know...

You knock yourself out Squeakz and enjoy it.

I am off to google Venge. But I'll stick with me Cyfac...
15/01/2012 at 14:17
Here it is... I got a S-works venge Di2 in htc colours (sorry for the backdrop, decorating at the moment)




Im using s-works shoes with look pedals, s-works prevail helmet. Garmin have some pedals coming out with ant+ compatability im really interested inso in using cheap pedals until these are released.

Really happy with the Dura-Ace Di2 electronic gear set, as am I with the firecrest zipps, the whole bike goes really well

Also considering a s-works shiv and a dogma as well, but going to have to read some reviews, they seem to go really well though and appear to be half decent bikes
Edited: 15/01/2012 at 15:08
cougie    pirate
15/01/2012 at 15:36
Oh very nice. Why two sets of firecrests though ?
Darkness    pirate
15/01/2012 at 15:44
A great looking bike! (that deserves not to have a hulking great big ugly saddle bag on it. Use a water bottle for your tools? Just my opinion!) Enjoy.
Darkness    pirate
15/01/2012 at 15:48
Do you mean a pinarello grall? Or do you want two top end road bikes?
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