Electronic Shifting and wheels?

is it worth it.

1 to 20 of 43 messages
08/01/2012 at 16:59
Im having my new bike built at this moment and was thinking towards going with sram red however the shop is telling me to go with dura ace di2, what would you go with and why?

Im also considering zip 404 wheels, as i stated that I will be training on this bike as well as racing on it, the shop is suggesting that these wheels are a little harsh for training and advise me to consider this, does anyone have experience of training on this wheel... what all round wheel would you choose.

The bike is based on a venge frame if that makes any difference..... got to tell them what to put on it on tuesday
08/01/2012 at 17:13
I think with the cost of 404's, I'd be worried about damaging them if I used them all the time
Edited: 08/01/2012 at 17:13
08/01/2012 at 17:25
What would be your wheel of choice then Dave?.. im really not knowledgeable regarding wheels, I like the look of the zips and they seem to be well respected.. the guys in the shop though are trying to point me towards roval wheels and suggest that the zipps are not suitable for a all round/purpose wheel and should be kept only for racing.. are you aware of anyone who uses zip wheels on their bike and trains with them, do you know if they have any issues.
Edited: 08/01/2012 at 17:29
Cheerful Dave    pirate
08/01/2012 at 17:32

Di2 is a very expensive piece of kit for a training bike.  If I had the cash and the bike to match it I'd consider it on a TT bike if I could put shift buttons in both hand positions, but for a road bike I'd probably not bother.  Super Record looks better anyway.

Have they suggested the newer Ultegra electronic set, or are they just offering the most expensive stuff?

As for the wheels, I'd consider Hed Jet 6's as an alternative to 404s, which are overpriced in any case.  In fact for the price difference you could get a second set of wheels for training on.

08/01/2012 at 17:39
Its the electronic set, they had a bike on rollers which had it, it felt really nice and slick to me, but i wanted to get the perspective of people who have more knowledge and experience than myself if it has any issues, problems or is simply not worth it.
Thanks for the wheel reccomendation, I will look at them.

So excited about getting the bike, I just want to get it right so I can enjoy it
Dubai Dave    pirate
08/01/2012 at 17:45

I ride at all times on either Zipp 404 (road bike) or Zipp 808 (TT bike) I have never had any issues at all but then I ride on silky smooth roads with no potholes. I also have a set of Ksyruim elites which I occasionally use on the road bike, yes the Ksyruims are quicker up hill but slower on all other terrain and there is no vast difference in how they feel in terms of road buzz etc. I have had no problems in cross winds with the 404's either though the 808 can be frisky in a wind.

In terms of reliability my 404's have done somewhere around 15,000K's now and have had one new set of bearings front and rear, the 808's are relatively new but have so far been trouble free. I don't believe there is anything better than Zipp's so if you can afford them then go for it.

As for di2 I decided against it on my latest bike, having ridden a few bikes with di2 i concluded that yes it is good and the self trimming bit is great as are shifters on the bull bars but for the extra cost its not worth it, Ultrega di2 could be tempting but as yet they haven't brought out bull bar shifters for that set. The other plus of a manual set up is being able to jump half way across the cassette in one go when you have screwed up your gear changing and are now hopelessly in the wrong gear.

cougie    pirate
08/01/2012 at 17:49
Yes very nice bike.
I'd go for the ultegra version though. Dura ace came out first and I believe it's been refined further on ultegra and it's cheaper.

That said mechanical still let's you change down faster than electronic and it's lighter.
cougie    pirate
08/01/2012 at 17:51
Oh cross post with Dave.
08/01/2012 at 17:55
Thanks for the help guys, very much appeciated
08/01/2012 at 18:03
I'm no technical expert but it seems an awful lot more cash to part with. My summer road bike has Dura Ace 9 speed on ( 2005 time ) and it is still perfect in my eye. I'm sure others will say it is outdated but it is still positive and tight and I'm more than confident in it that it will do the job required.
Bouncing Barlist    pirate
08/01/2012 at 18:05
SRAM Red & Di2 are both excellent groupsets, personally given the choice id go for Di2,the benefit of no brake cables to stretch and positioning options for adding duel controls on hoods and tribars makes them a no brainer.

404's are a very good set of wheels but unless youve got money to replace them in a couple of yeears id hesistate to suggest training on them through the winter/wet weather grime, especially if you go for the set with carbon rims.  Why not buy a set of training wheels and save the Zipps for the good weather and racing?  I dont know anyone who trains on Zipps or HEDs, these kind of wheels are not really build for day in/day out wear and tear in my opinion.  I dont see the real need to have to train on a £1400 set of wheels?

With 404's no point scrimping on the tyres so youre looking at another £120 for good rubber like Continental Competition, If you go for carbon rims then a good set of brake pads like swissstop yellow are another £30.

Unless youre going to be racing hilly courses then a set of 606's (404 front 808 back) are probably a better all round set-up for race day?

HEDs are certainly cheaper, how good 404's are vs HEDs is debateable but if you want the bling kit then go for Zipp.  You dont see HED rolling up at Ironman races renting out 200/300 sets of wheels for the day like 'Race Day Wheels' do with Zipps!  Nor do you see many of the field on HEDs, to me this means either HED is the best kept secret in Tri or everyone riding Zipps are bling sheep. 

If youre going to be racing triathlon on a venge frame, have you given any thought to the cockpit set-up, positioning for tribars, race position etc.  Just wondering as the aero advantage of a good set-up (or even a TT frame/set-up) will deliver more advantages than 404's or Di.
Cheerful Dave    pirate
08/01/2012 at 18:55
Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)
Nor do you see many of the field on HEDs, to me this means either HED is the best kept secret in Tri or everyone riding Zipps are bling sheep. 

Chrissie uses HEDs, of course.  And triathlon's chock full of bling sheep, given two equal pieces of kit many seem to opt for the more expensive because obviously it'll be faster.  Chrissie uses the HED jets rather than the more expensive Stinger tubulars, mind you she's had problems fixing flats in the past...

I think it was Robbie McEwan who when asked what his favourite bike was said "the one I'm paid to ride".

08/01/2012 at 19:15
It does partly depend on what you want the bike for - road racing, triathlon, sportives, leisure rides etc.

With the groupset I think the question would be do you want electronic or normal shifting - if I was going for a money no object road bike I'd be tempted by Di2 just to see what it's like - it's got more bling factor but I suppose a little extra to go wrong.

For the wheels - what depth rim do you want and are you happy with a carbon braking surface, clinchers or tubs, and then look at the brands that fit your requirements.
Doner Kebab    pirate
08/01/2012 at 19:52
imo get cable shifting and use the money saved from Di2 to get some coaching or something, i kind of think that unless your trying for kona there were plenty guys that was winning last year that got by without electrics, is it any lighter? a few grammes maybe? maybe even heavier?
and like people have said the only real benefit is shifting in 2 places - that may save you 20 seconds on your 112mile jolly. i can why shops want to push electrics - when someone walks into my shop i try to sell them a bit more than they originally wanted, triathlon is all about bling and shopowners know it - its an easy sell. just my onion
OrangeCannon kona-5    pirate
08/01/2012 at 20:10
SRAM red, heds, mavic askiums for training, and hire a coach for a year

Ps are you IM ing or olying.......
IronCat5    pirate
08/01/2012 at 20:34

I've no experience of SRAM doubletap, but if it shifts as positively as the SRAM TT shifters then I'd go for that over Shimano any day.

I guess one advatage of DI2 is you could run standard drop bars and then also use clip on TT bars with the DI2 TT shifters.

08/01/2012 at 21:19
Good point - that'd be a big advantage - well not that big but at the level of paying big money for small gains that's about as big a gain as you'd get.
cougie    pirate
08/01/2012 at 23:15
There's bugger all advantage in the electric shifting really.
It's heavier, slower and more expensive.
It is very cool though !

What is the bike for ? If it's for triathlon you'd be better off saving your money and buy two bikes. One tt and one road. A cheaper tt bike will be faster than the venge.
08/01/2012 at 23:41
The bike is intended to be used for a bit of everything to be honest, i selected the venge frame on looks as much as anything, if I had to say one event that I would like a competent bike for it would be the box hill dualathlon.

Im not a great fan of the tt style bikes, they are a little bit extreme for my liking.

Popsider mentioned carbon braking surfaces, does this make a massive difference to the feel or stopping power as its something I have not considered at this point.
Edited: 08/01/2012 at 23:42
cougie    pirate
08/01/2012 at 23:49
The venge is their top of the range road bike - great for racing on - its a real super bike.
Have you ridden it ? It could be so stiff that it's a bit of a bumpy ride ?
And don't get the di2 - it's like twice the price for an older version of the ultegra electronic.
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