Fink for Outlaw 2012

Razor - Steady says take it steady.
Better to get sorted out now than push on and end up sidelined and unable to train when you really want/need to. I know because I am just getting over a muscle imbalance and spasm that has been going on a long time (years) and didnot know that it was a problem until it got painful and stopped me running, osteo has straightened me out and told me which exercises I need to do twice a day every day until muscles learn the correct behaviour.

Soupy and others, I swim using a nose clip and ear plugs. I used to get horrible chlorine sinus headaches, only down side is I can't hear what the coach says too clearly and have to lip read.

I have swapped days around a bit so off shortly to do 30min bike and 15 min run as per Wed on Intermediate.

Saffers and Soupy - what about asking on the crap swimmers thread? Someone there might have some ideas?

Hello everyone BTW.  Am in for Outlaw - my third long distance.  Just spent a happy 15 mins reading the thread back from the beginning and it's brill seeing everyone's excitement.  From my experience, the training can seem interminable at times - 30 weeks IS a long time to stay focussed - but all of a sudden you're clad in rubber with 1500 other people wearing silly hats at 6 o'clock in the morning about to DO IT.

Re max HR, am so glad Meldy said not to do the 220 minus your age thing.  It only works for about 30% of the population.  My max HR is much higher than 220-age suggests and I'd have been working in completely the wrong zones - just not working hard enough.

Fink is pretty straight forward with zones so even though I train more with Friel, I use Fink's HR zones. A good way (they're all painful ...) to get your max HR is to go along to a Park Run or other 5k and do a max effort. In your last k your HR will be maxed out.

I'm another one who doesn't like to do a long run the day after a long bike. I'm sure it's partly  because of my great age and pathetic recovery ability, but I just couldn't cope with a long run on tired legs. It would a) increase likelihood of injury because tired, tight muscles are more likely to tear and a knackered core is unlikely to help you hold good running form... which also increases injury likelihood.

Also the long run is a key session which means you need to get the most out of it to get a good training effect. If you're knackered and just about managing the time on your feet you won't always be working at a rate that is doing you some good and building your endurance. I know not everyone agrees but I think if you're not exactly a whipper snapper it's something to consider when trying to work out how to fit it all in.

Swimming - I'm not a fast swimmer but I'm not crap either. My IM swims have been 1.16 and 1.21. I haven't properly swum since August but will start again in Jan with a masters coached session on a Monday night (which I hate because it means I finish past my bed time, but it makes me do a session and work hard) then another steady swim during the week when I usually bung in some sort of fartlek/tempo type sessions. THen as soon as the lake opens I'll be in there doing my second swim OW. That's the one I build up, usually doing the full distance every three weeks or so.

Biking is where it's at for me because I'm not strong. But I'm getting stronger. This year I WILL go sub-7.  There. HAve said it.

Sorry for going on and on. I just remember it being interesting knowing what sort of other training had worked for other people.   And I DO go on and on...

I'd put in a huge plug for pilates or some sort of core strength programme.  I've done pilates for about three years now and have seen my niggle levels plummet. It might also be that because I'm doing IM and less pure running, but I'm convinced it's one of the most important aspects of IM training.  If all the pros do it it must be important! Try not to see it as something that's a nice to have... it'll help keep you training.

Oooh it's very exciting

AH - thanks for sharing that.  Its really helpful to have people's experience and opinions who've done the distance before. Interested in the core strength thing.  The physio department at the hospital where I work are just about to start a staff core strength training programme over 10 weeks for £30. I might go along and then after the 10 weeks I should have enough strength/knowledge to do my own without paying out for a class.

Soupy that is a GREAT deal. DO IT!  I do one class every week and now I do other bits and pieces to try to build up glutes etc but all I really did for two years was one class a week and I know it made a difference - it makes you aware of your body and how it works which is a great boon.

all you sufferers get into the nose clips and ear plugs I was always suffering with water behind the ear drum and ear infections not a problem any more , you could also try breathing out through the nose which could clear out the sinuses, although I aint doing an IM next year I miss the structured training so I may leap into the Fink get you round programme  from December to keep things ticking over for next year

Hi AH! Loved hearing all your thoughts and plans. Thanks.

Soupy - that sounds a great class to join.

Bike and swim today

I already breathe out through my nose so don't want a nose clip either but thanks for the suggestions. I'm fine today thankfully, but swimming tomorrow so will see. It does happen in open water so not just chlorine.

1 hour bike (but slow cos schools were turning out (grrrrr) followed by a QC 15 min run. I'm trying to do a whole week of Fink's intermediate plan to fine tweak my training times etc.  I think I'll be doing the long run midweek, probably Friday with Sat as a rest day.

AH thanks for your input into the thread it's exactly what this thread needs people with their experiences posting telling us all their tips pros/cons

Well I'm two days into intermediate week 1 lol so rest day done and 30 minute zone2 run done although very cold wind today. I actually started Sat with the 1hr bike and Sun with 45 minute run will be doing first 3 weeks on a repeat till 5 December. I'm already finding it hard to train to time instead of distance although finding my new HR monitor good to use (not had one before) I worked mine out on a 5k max instead of 220

Take it easy Razor training doesn't start proper till 5december so get your self fit for then

I'm still waiting to recover from Henley which appears to be occurring quite slowly! Was hoping to start base training at the beginning of November but it might end up being mid to late November after tired legs from a 5M run yesterday! (or I need to find some nice slower people to go proper easy running with...)

Thanks guys,....  physio says the problem is a nerve in my back which is travelling down my leg. So I've got to arrange some physio sessions..........the good news is I can train as long as it's not painful and if I run it's got to be on soft ground to cushion the impact on my leg. Should be fine on the bike and swimming...

So I will get the bike out tomorrow and see how it goes...

Tried to set my HR monitor by age but everything I did sent my HR above my so called max so next time I do parkrun I will do what AH and ST  says and max out the last K to see if that works out better.

AH.......I've been reading Friel but I find it all a bit confusing or am I just thick?....

Razor - The less-than-helpful thing about Friel is the lack of actual programme... which is why I based my rough volumes around Fink Intermediate for IM number 1.  However, I think Friel/Gordo Byrne speak good sense as regards taking it slowly etc.  I keep going back to Friel and finding new nuances. For eg from now till Xmas I'm trying to do more weight training - so I've had a look at that section in Friel for the first time.

Without going to get the book out, the key things I like about Friel are:

• for your first IM - and prob your first three or four - you can do a really good IM off endurance training without any quality efforts/zone 3 or 4.
• if you really are tired, take some time off, no sense in getting injured.You've got a long way to go ... which leads to the next one:
• consistency is key.
• don't do a long run the day after a long bike
• always do some sort of run, even if only 10/15 mins, after a long bike.

There's prob more but those are great principles, I think.

WW - I've taken ages to get over IMRE I think.  It's hard to tell after a while, isn't it? You don't know if you're just being pathetic or if you're genuinely still not recovered.  Hope you're on the way, though!  No hurry.

Hi AH, good to see you on here sharing your experience with us.   Had my first tri club turbo session this season. Great session, always hard.  Next week they are doing max HR testing so that should be fun....NOT, I best take a sick bucket.

With regards to the swimming, I have tried a nose clip but can't get seem to get it to stay on.

I am loving the training at the moment.......I am sure that will change in time.

Taper week for me. I currently run 3x a week and try to swim 2x. I'll start to bring the bike online after this weekend's marathon. It's ballbuster in 3 weeks!

I have suffered with ear infections after swimming but not at the moment. I keep thinking ear plugs...

Razor51 wrote (see)

Thanks guys,....  physio says the problem is a nerve in my back which is travelling down my leg.

Ouch. Sciatic nerve?

Hen - I took my MHR from a 5k effort. I'ts quite high, but I'm sure I can get it higher!

+1 for a nose clip
I used to get horrendous sinus issues- all sorted with a clip

another +1 for gordo and friel - lots of good advice, no set program but more than enough info to make one up
Ie
Key sessions
Long bike- build from 2 hrs to 6 over the next 20-30 weeks
Long run- build from 30 mins to 2 1/2 hrs
Long swim- build to 90 mins Confucius swimming

All other sessions (up to 3 in tital inc above per sport) support the above. Drop them if necessary but not the above long sessions

3 weeks foward, one week recover( ie long ride back to 2 hrs)

Consistency is king- you will get fitter, just don't too much too soon

Ignore other people if they( ie me) say they are doing mega sessions. Everyone is in a different place, have different time available, different goals etc

Run tempo sessions/ intervals/ speed work. Unless you are a speedy marathon runner, forget it. Until you can run the whole IM marathon without slowing, then just keeping running is the most important thing. Aerobic running- zones upper 1&2 is where it's at

Run/walk strategy. I use it, (run 8-10 mins, walk 1 min) on all runs > 1hr,and on race day. Others tried it this year, at regensburg, they may comment on how it went for them

Nutrition- plenty of time yet, but start eating/ drinking regularly on long bikes/runs. I eat something every 30 mins, and run with a camel pack in training and drink something on every walk bit

Weights- I dropped those in yr 1, but maintained them last year..
I think core / functional type stuff is worth it, as is yoga/ pilates

However. You also need to have a life - be realistic on how many hrs you have to exercise




I like gordos polystrene cup analogy

Blimey I go on a bit

Anyway the polystyrene cup thing- its something along the lines that IM training is like turning a polystyrene cup inside out. Do it slowly over a long period and hey presto, the cup is inside out
Do it quickly/ rush it and the cup rips
You *are* the cup

ThanksOC - makes a lot of sense  and I'm liking the all zone upper 1/2 bit.

<puts Friel on order>

<repeats - I am a polystyrene cup>

Got Friel beside the bed at the moment, can't find my Fink... I'm great at reading the books, just struggle to put it all into practice !