Fink for outlaw 2013

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29/01/2013 at 10:11

Horse riding last night my little bit of sanctuary and then 1 1/4 hrs run this morning.

Got up easier than recently but then spent the first 2 miles wishing I hadn't, 3rd mile hating eveything to do with Fink and IM and the last 2 miles quite cheerful.

It's amazing how my attitude changes once the sun comes up!

Double day today so swimming afterwork tonight.

Edited: 29/01/2013 at 10:15
seren nos    pirate
29/01/2013 at 11:16

MW22..I have struggled to slow down on the run.I have a high max HR and  ahigh HR and had to run 11 min miling to keep my Hr low...................but was suprised that I got a 8 mile PB on Sunday so have faith.........

when you say your bike HR is high.what are you working out your zones on.what is your max HR.......

I had a forced rest day uesterday apart froma  squash game as rcovering after my race.....

today hit the pool and actually managed the hour and felt I COULD HAVE STAYED IN FOR MORE...... wow...didn't though.i had a sauna instead

29/01/2013 at 11:39

Hi Seren.
Zones were just defined by garmin based on my max and resting.
It doesnt (at the minute) bother me that its high, as I'm working hard... same when I was running.. I'd just tweak the pace and effort to make sure I could do the distance I intended.

I've just always trained on the basis of threshold and interval stuff... if you've worked hard - the body then rebuilds stronger (and consequently when you want to run at a slower pace - its much easier as your used to going faster).

So this keeping it slow seems foreign to me and I can't get my head around how it works (both on a pyhsical and mental level).


29/01/2013 at 12:18

There's arguments both ways MW22 but I'd strongly suggest you train in the zones you will be racing in. That will not be Zones 4 and 5 that's for sure! Be disciplined and stick to zone 2. You will get quicker at that hr believe me. It's hard for everyone at the beginning (my Z2 run hr is currently @ 10m/mi!) The point is that your ratio of glycogen vs fat usage is much greater at higher intensity. You cannot consume enough calories to keep this going for an IM. You can alter this ratio by keeping the intensity down so that more of your energy comes from the fat reserves. The more you train at this intensity the more efficient you become at utilising your fat stores.

29/01/2013 at 12:40

Ok thanks Badger.. thats kinda the information I was after.

Having never done any longer rides (in the great outdoors) with HR monitored I hadn't really considered what zone I'd be in for the full distance.

So I can take on board the energy from fat comments... something I need to train the body to do - so will incorporate that.

You touch on the other point "I will get quicker at that HR". How much?? I appreciate that is entirely subjective... but what kinda of returns have you seen?

I commute by bike all week so I can easily tone down the rides there... just need to get my head around going slower to go faster!


Doner Kebab    pirate
29/01/2013 at 15:06

MW22 - if your doing a half in under 5 hours id say fook the HR zones and keep training how you are


29/01/2013 at 16:20

Just a quick point - do the Garmin zones actually correspond with the Fink ones? I'd guess not if they have five for a start - so read the chapter where Fink explains why training in the correct zone is important and then input the correct zones into your Garmin might not change much but could well explain the discrepancy 

29/01/2013 at 16:36

 Thanks DK - made me laugh.

Hmmm..... very valid point Little Miss..... was just making assumptions with all this HR stuff. I will go investigate.


29/01/2013 at 17:19

Yep Garmins also use %HRR which is different to %HR. Thankfully you can set them via just BPM for the zones so at least you can work out the fink HR zones and what the BPM are for the top and bottom for each zone and set it that way.

I set my garmin zones 1-4 to match fink using BPM and then Z5 I set at 95%-100% HRR as Garmin wanted a 5th zone to be happy and that was all that wasn't already used up, I don't intend to use it!

Did take me a couple of hours to work it all out though.

When I did my marathon training my Z2 run times improved by a massive 2 mins per mile. But then for me that is only going for 12 min miles to 10 min miles.

I guess quicker people would see less of a jump?

Cortina5    pirate
29/01/2013 at 21:53

Fink is all about building 7 months of base training, then throwing in some speed work to keep the body guessing. You will get faster over the 7 months.

That said, DK also has a valid point. At the pointy end I'm led to believe they reverse-periodise. They get the speed work done first to the race pace, then they add the endurance on afterwards to stretch race pace to however long it takes to do the each leg.

Before starting IM training in Dec2011 I did my first mara in Oct (started training in July). So a fair few months base training, which has stood me in good stead for the speed work I started back in Oct 2012.

Also it is likely that your turbo HR is higher at a given speed than on the road due to cooling. Of course, on the road there may be a stonking wind like Outlaw last year...

Edited: 29/01/2013 at 21:55
seren nos    pirate
30/01/2013 at 07:17 time for guilt in the week..just move on.sometimes we need to be sensible and rest..I did that on monday and then Tuesdays training went really well........i might fit in the missed sessions on my rest day on saturday or I might not......doesn't matter as they were not my loing sessions.good luck for you .xxx

Hoping for a break in the rain so i can get out on the bike

PSC    pirate
30/01/2013 at 07:23

+1 on that.... don't chase lost sessions. The plan is solid enough to allow you to miss a few bits through illness/life/work/family etc.

30/01/2013 at 08:30
That is good to hear. Missed yesterday's run as I did not get out of the office until after 9am and have a stag do in Portugal this weekend. Planning on taking my running gear and if I can get a couple of runs in it will only be Saturday's bike session I miss. Still gutted though as I had a 100% record up until last night.
Doner Kebab    pirate
30/01/2013 at 09:07
IronCat5 in the Hat wrote (see)

That said, DK also has a valid point. At the pointy end I'm led to believe they reverse-periodise. They get the speed work done first to the race pace, then they add the endurance on afterwards to stretch race pace to however long it takes to do the each leg.

its not just that Cat, last year i didnt do a lot of speed work thanks to Fink and lost a load of speed so this year i put the speed work in from the start and it is working. One consideration is that speedwork is normally associated with injury and i dont want to train for 5 months then get injured just before my race, by putting in the speed sessions early any injury that is likely would come to a head months before your big day. Obviously im not saying for newbies to go out and trash themselves but MW22 dont fall into that category

Nurse Ratched    pirate
30/01/2013 at 15:10

30mins on turbo & 15min run yesterday, utterly pants swim & 30 min run today.  I'm thinking "Just Finish" is an accurate description!

Tired Badger    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:22

I know this goes against the fink programme but i've been continuing to put in the speed sessions, hill e.t.c once a week with the running club, the rest of the sessions i'm doing as per fink. I'm doing it thinking that it will support doing some quicker stuff later in the plan.

Iron Muffin    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:23

Good debate on speed work. I did none last year as an IM newbie, even when Fink started dropping it in, I didn't really do much.

This year I have a base plan with much more in. Time will tell what it does for performance but it is working in terms of weight loss and general motivation.

I think the high intensity stuff gets the happy exercise chemicals going.

30/01/2013 at 16:44

Like Tired Badger, Ive been doing 1 session a week of speedwork with the tri club, It's a session I always enjoy and thats more important than following the plan to the letter.

rest of my training is all done at lower intensity though, I like low intensity, if I didnt train with others occassionally I probably would pretty much only do low intensity stuff. guess that's why i'm training for ironman distance and not sprint.

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 16:45
Cortina5    pirate
30/01/2013 at 18:00

Fingers crossed EP.

I guess TB and MW will likely finish and think that 30 weeks was too long. They'll probably find out that it isn't about the bike, but about the run. I think if you're already doing half-mara distances or longer, with speedwork then the Fink running may not need to be followed.

Of course, the added stress of swimming 3 x a week and loads of cycling may cause the running to be scaled back. I had a few weeks where I'd have to run off a hard bike, only to have to spin out the hard run and so on.

Luckily sprints for me this year!

30/01/2013 at 20:31

For a solid sub 12 IM, speed work is pointless until you can knock out the ironman basic week without it killing you.

Once you have built your endurance to do that at z2 effort, then you can start to through some faster efforts in

Basic IM week in build period

  • 75 m swim
  • 6 hr bike
  • 2.5 hr run

These are in seperate sessions accross the week.
If these wipe you out then just keep building base endurance

If these feel ok, start adding 30 min steady blocks into the runs, or 3*30 min upper z2 on the bike.

In the mean time, do at least 1 interval / turbo session a week,  This complements the long ride, adding power to the muscular endurance from the long ride.

Lastly, how have you set your zones?  Ones based straight on a % of max hr are as likely to e wrong as right.
Friel uses a 30 min functional test (max sustainable hr for 30 mins) to give a baseline then you plug that figure into a table and it gives you z1- z5 etc etc
You need to seperate tests for running and biking
And you need to repeat these on a monthly basis as things change.

This is quite a good read I found today about the benefits of base training and why it works
base training

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