IM Switzerland 2007

Anyone in?

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cougie    pirate
29/11/2006 at 23:37
Fitn40 - you dont need to kick for an ironman swim. Just use your arms and literally crawl over the water. Even if you're pants like me - it'll be over in 90ish mins and then the proper hard stuff begins.
30/11/2006 at 01:07
F4l - I just stopped kicking and my 400 time came down by 30 seconds! At some point I will be adapted to not kicking wrongly, then I will learn kicking correctly. Watch your back, JAn Sibbersen ;-)

And the wetsuit is like a pull boye around you.
30/11/2006 at 02:02
I agree with Cougs, get use to swimming with your arms!!

As Lars said, the wetsuit is like a pull bouye. Once you swim in one the bouyancy puts your body in the correct position, thus stops the swimming up hill phenomenen?? This is where your body position is wrong and you find yourself kicking too low in the water. Try to maintain the kick just breaking the water, you will use a lot less energy and therefore find the swimming a lot easier.

But be warned, don't rely on the wetsuit as if the water temp is too warm, they are not aloud.

30/11/2006 at 14:10
I think for a good kick (not that I have one, I seem to go from the front of my training to the back as soon as kick sets start) you just need to have nice and relaxed ankles. I can't kick to save my life and I've got webbed toes.

As the guys said I think it's best just to concentrate on arms, the legs will have a lot of work to do later!!!

I'm knitting a scarf for my girlfriend's Xmas present (what a loser I am)
30/11/2006 at 14:17
I HATE pullbouys. They make crap swimmers. They're great training aids and can be used with paddles for strength work but don't rely on them to get a decent position.

PB's don't make you swim like you've got a wetsuit on, swimming with a wetsuit makes you do that. The kick balances the movements made by your arms. Dragging your legs (supported by a PB or wetusit) will just make you "fishtail" down the pool / lake / sea and cause a whole lot of unwanted drag.

Learn to swim properly and use a PB rarely.

Why struggle around the swim and waste 10-15 minutes when you'd be gutted spending that time in TX or the bike or the run.

Granted for IM your kick is minimised in terms of % propulsion gained but it is still important.
30/11/2006 at 15:21
I disagree that pullbouys make crap swimmers, they are a great training aid that do wonders for the endurance in your shoulders.

I agree that dragging legs (not using them) is a bad idea as this will cause an ineffiecent stroke. But when using a pullbouy and using a good stroke technique fishtailing shouldn't be a problem.
30/11/2006 at 15:37
In my pool the people who use the most "aids" tend to have very average technique. I'm not a fan of pull buoy - it encourages people with bad technique to think they are doing something useful.
30/11/2006 at 15:38
FWIW (I am not a good swimmer) I used to thinking kicking was not important in a IM. But now think it is for the reasons that Lars points out. No matter what you think, you will kick during the IM swim and even if yon don't it is very likely that your kick/feet are causing drag.

I tend to do at least 2-3x100m with a kick board each session I do now. Was amazed at just how crap I was at it to.
30/11/2006 at 16:05
aaargh kickboards...do diagonal kick!

HJ - why do PB's make stronger shoulders?

If only 11% of propulsion comes from kicking then why suddenly stopping kicking will make you stronger?

Swimming harder or using paddles will do that. Not artifically raising your legs with a float. I know a reasonably fast swimmer who is 1 second per 25m faster with a PB than without. Not because his shoulders are stronger but because he's so used to using this "aid" that he swims poorly without it.
30/11/2006 at 16:06
Interesting, the swimming coach in the tri sessions HATES kick boards, but does the odd pool bouy swim to work the arms.

I do a silly sort of breast stroke crawl kick, so the feet go out causing a restriction in the flow.

Dont think wetsuits are often used in Zurich unfortunately.
30/11/2006 at 16:09
so Joe, what tips do you have on learning to kick properly? Do flippers help you to get the correct feel? My legs really do just drag behind/below me if I dont do that stupid kick, but its ineffective, so wonder what is worse.
30/11/2006 at 16:09
wots a diagonal kick?
30/11/2006 at 16:29
Best google that and read some stuff.
not that I'm into TI but there's a good image here

Kick boards are great for
a) Talking to your lane mates
b) Working the muscles needed for cycling
30/11/2006 at 16:33
see his legs are completely straight in that diagonal kicking, thats kicking from the hips I presume ?? Thats really hard, dont think I ve ever got that right. Perhaps oneday the switch will turn on, will just keep plugging away, but there must be someway of getting the feeling of what those legs should be doing, surely??
30/11/2006 at 16:41
Go to the deep end of the pool, stand straight and kick to tread water. Keep you shoulders above the water. For fun try raising your hands above your head.

Fins can help when doing lots of kick drills and some slower drills to aid propulsion.
30/11/2006 at 16:41
http://www.the-race-movie.com/therace.htm

how do you give a link a different name?
30/11/2006 at 16:42
{url=http://www.thelinkyouwant.com}LINK NAME{/url}

replace { } for [ ]
30/11/2006 at 16:43
30/11/2006 at 16:44
thanks
30/11/2006 at 16:51
not working......what did I do wrong??
{url=http://www.the-race-movie.com/}The Race{/url}
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