Lance folds on drug charges

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03/10/2012 at 18:11

I was reading that Landis thing earlier after Dr Hutch tweeted it - I guffawed when it mentioned "full of shit".

it's got a touch of the schoolyard and sticks and stones about it eh?......

03/10/2012 at 18:35

The different responses to drugs how is that different to different responses to training techniques we are all different - some can never make it but even those that have the potential one size doesn't fit all.  Regardless of how much benefit someone may or may not get from it they are equal idiots for doing it.

I am not defending the drug taking really just the witch hunt when it seem apparent that the majority of the higher placing riders were doping as well at the time.  It isn't going to change anything now when others caught at different times to winning events have kept their titles. 

Can any of us say that the sport really is clean now - the drug testing will always be a step behind what is being developed and used

meface    pirate
03/10/2012 at 20:51

I thought the buying off of the UCI was a load of crock. The results are sent to the UCI and the IOC simultaneously - unless he bought off the IOC as well.

I don't care whether he doped or not really. However it has gone on for so long with no real evidence it is starting to annoy me. 

The guy who tested the positive said that the evidence was inconclusive and he wouldn't go to court with it. IT needed another sample but there were issues with it.

If they have evidence then present it. If not then either drop it or get the evidence. Other than that it does seem like they are just a bunch of whingers on witch hunt.

flyaway    pirate
04/10/2012 at 13:09

Maddy - thats the entire point of sport, isnt it? People are different, some are more "talented" (have better genes or whatever) and combined with a bit of skill/ intelligence/ luck/ gucci kit (depending on the sport in question) more often that not, that person wins. Your point was that if everyone is allowed to dope, the playing field is leveled, and winning is dependant only on tactics/ luck/ having the best wheels. Which it wouldnt be.

04/10/2012 at 15:15

Wow. Am amazed that so many people still believe and trust in the 'legend' of Lance. One of the reasons the 'man who never quits' quit his fight, was in an attempt to ensure that the actual real evidence that has been systematically gathered by USADA, stays in a file and is not exposed to any judicial process.

The point of his action was to be able to maintain a high-ground where he could accuse USADA of conducting a witch-hunt against him, rather than having to argue about real evidence from drugs tests, team managers and team mate's affidavits.

The fact that Lance has lied, bullied, cheated and misled people for years is the real scandal here and we will look back on this case in a few years time and shake our heads. No one likes to lose a hero, or a legend to make us aspire to. But it's much worse to have been subjected to an organised conspiracy to fool us all.

He is not a nice guy. He deserves what is surely coming to him. Perhaps this sounds harsh and opinionated but i didn't feel like this a couple of months ago. I was quite a fan. But I started reading a lot of background info, scholarly articles, journalists reports, team mate's testimony etc. Helped by the UCI, he was able to fob off testers, get early warnings, have dodgy results buried, lost or contaminated, while he threatened or buried junior team members who wouldn't play along.

Why did Lance pay $100.000 to the UCI in 2005? Doesn't that seem a bit weird to anyone?

04/10/2012 at 15:30
But no one has seen any evidence from USADA
04/10/2012 at 16:48

I was in the 'oh well they probably all did it' camp, why rake up old stuff etc etc then I read David Millers book and thought it was obvious he was careful not to say anything about Lance - which made me wonder, but thought it was mainly about him rather than the other riders - v good read BTW.

Then read Tyler Hamilton's book...... Blimey!  Even if he is bitter, angry, testifying to save himself - whatever - it's pretty strong stuff. I have only been been following the sport relatively recently - If I were a die hard fan - Hamilton's book would have made me furious.

 

Can't even bring myself to even go on the Live Strong website now. Everything LA has touched is now tainted in my mind.

 

It shows how far this brings all sport into disrepute that I (along with others obviously) raise an eyebrow at folks like Bolt. Which is a real shame.

04/10/2012 at 17:28
Ah so Hamiltons book has loads of proper "stand up in court" evidence ?
04/10/2012 at 18:02

Well as he isn't prosecuting LA, just writing a book, who knows.

 

But as for there being actual proper evidence?  I will be pretty amazed if some isn't forthcoming during the next while. Only time will tell.

04/10/2012 at 18:03

It is amazing how the did he didn't he dope has captured the worlds imagination; there is a wealth of opinion on every cycling forum site with passionate argument either way. I should not really be surprised that it is mirrored here. I have contributed my opinion for what it is worth elsewhere. But if you have not looked already; have a look at www.52x12.com this has a lot of stuff from the Dr who is alleged to have doped Lance. The science is frighteningly complex and makes me think this bad smell could hang around for a long time to come.  Come on USADA publish your stuff....please! 

04/10/2012 at 18:03
They have been saying there is evidence for the last 10 years !

Would be nice if someone produced some
04/10/2012 at 18:13

I totally agree.  

It's not about the bike makes LA sound pretty arrogant, not very likeable but certainly a character and never ever a quitter.

So when he quit! 

 

But they do need to put up or shut up, and I am saying that as someone who thinks LA is guilty as sin.

cougie    pirate
04/10/2012 at 18:23

Havent we seen the positive EPO test results already ? And the accounts from several sources ? 

OK so its not gone to court - but theres plenty of stuff out there. 

Not read the Hamilton book - must have a look. 

04/10/2012 at 18:45
We have Cougie, but nothing that would stand up in court !

Not decided either way, but with all the smoke there hasn't been a fire proved
04/10/2012 at 18:48

The whole time I was reading Hamilton's book I was driving my husband insane ...'omg listen to this'... etc etc  

meface    pirate
04/10/2012 at 20:48

$100,000 isn't that much if you are in Lance's league.

No evidence has been proffered that he bribed the IOC as well so bribing the UCI would be pointless.

If there isn't hard evidence then they should shut up, if there is then they should publish it. As they haven't published it is because they aren't confident in their evidence.

Not really a Lance fan but it is innocent until proven guilty and there is nothing proven.

There is lots of evidence of aliens coming to earth and taking people away, feeling them up, messing with their heads and using probes. But would that evidence stand up in court.

 

05/10/2012 at 06:41
Currently wading through the Hamilton book its very interesting already points the finger at another of my favorites Big George Hincapie the interesting thing is its not just Hamilton flinging crap there are statements from other US postal riders also hamilton didnt testify to save homself he was already cooked IIRC (i havent got to this part in the book) he didnt dish the dirt until he had to make a statement under oath and you would be daft to lie on that unless you like the taste of prison food
I have slways been a massive Lance fan and as. DTS rightly says where is the evidence but the circumstancial stuff has made me get my head out of the sand regarding Lance
I thought the book would be a one man mud slinging thing but its far from that and is proving a much more enligtening read than the Millar book which was good but totally skirted the Lance issue
05/10/2012 at 09:19

Yeah and Jimmy Saville should be resurrected and booked as a children's entertainer for every party in the land.  I mean he's never been found guilty.  Maybe with Ken Bailey as a sidekick to make sure the boys don't get left out.

WTF has Lance's wealth go to do with how much is a lot of money to another unconnected organisation?  So Lance is rich and that means the UCI don't think a six figure sum is useful?  Mmmm..does not compute.  £100 probably isn't a lot to a powerful pimp but it would probably entice some desperate ho to do something she ordinarily wouldn't.

The IOC have as much if not more to lose than the UCI over positives and their track record of honesty and integrity in terms of voting and bribes a neptotistic awarding of lucrative contracts around the Olympics isn't exactly admirable.  Take a look at the carp broadcasting of the Olympic road race we all 'enjoyed' and who owns the company you HAVE to use if you win the bid.  So they don't hold a lot of credibility either.

The evidence is obviously in the USADA files and that's why Lance quit and didn't contest the charges of systematic doping.  The files are supposed to be released by 15th October so there's not long to wait. 

As you were.

05/10/2012 at 09:40
Awaiting 15th october with interest
05/10/2012 at 09:55

What CRAB says is pretty much correct - the UCI is corrupt as hell - I hadn't realised the Olympic broadcast was tied into a company on which Verbruggen is a Director (until I just googled it) but it's just another example.   I think there is enough evidence to suggest fairly strongly that they were complicit in covering up what Armstrong was up to.    

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