Lance folds on drug charges

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10/10/2012 at 17:33

USADA are just doing what they need to do with them Dave irrespective of their current racing status.  it's procedural.

10/10/2012 at 17:39
Yeah I know... Just that most of the people involved have reached the end of the road.
JD.    pirate
10/10/2012 at 19:45

I wonder how Phil & Paul are taking it.  Not sure of the reach of ITV commentary but Phil was quite happy to vouch for Lance over the years.  He never mentioned the business interests he apparently has with Lance.

Wonder if Jens will be up next.  I hope not.

JD.
10/10/2012 at 19:50

Another sad day, watching more of my boyhood hereos and people that motivated me to get into cycling come out and say they doped.

Does this mean Johan Bryneel (sp?) is implicated

10/10/2012 at 19:52
Yep Johan is in the frame as well
10/10/2012 at 19:56

Reminds when Dave Duffield bombed out some viewer for suggesting that Marco Pantani was doping. Embarrassing in the light of things. Mind you I feel sad about Marco. I won a substantial bet down the bookies for backing him each way to win the T de F. 

10/10/2012 at 21:25
Johan Bruyneel is one of those going to arbitration against USADA. He's still fighting for his professional life as he continues to get his living from the sport.

Yes Faster Than Before Engineer, good call. 2008.

Now the facts are on the table it will be interesting to see who rallies around Lance and who gives him a wide berth. I think he'll become toxic sooner or later and that isn't supposed to be a sick pun.
10/10/2012 at 22:00

Now if Jens Voight were to be implicated, that would be a death kneel to all the heroes of the recent past/present (bearing in mind he's still going strong at 40 something!)  Oh please, no!

10/10/2012 at 22:26
If Jensie goes down I'm selling my bikes and taking up knitting
11/10/2012 at 06:06
Sorry to burst another bubble but no way did Jens race clean. Get real - virtually no one raced clean from well before Festina to the end of LA's reign. Certainly not anyone you've heard of anyway. It was systemic not a choice from a few ruthless riders or corrupt teams.

Pick a rider, assume their guilt then see if there's enough proof to make you believe on the vast probability he didn't dope a la Lemond. You won't have a very long list of riders from that era and it'll stop you being disappointed and feeling like you've been let down...repeatedly.

As USADA were.
Edited: 11/10/2012 at 06:16
Cheerful Dave    pirate
11/10/2012 at 08:31

From Hincapie's blog:

"Early in my professional career, it became clear to me that, given the widespread use of performance enhancing drugs by cyclists at the top of the profession, it was not possible to compete at the highest level without them.

...I have competed clean and have not used any performance enhancing drugs or processes for the past six years. Since 2006, I have been working hard within the sport of cycling to rid it of banned substances. During this time, I continued to successfully compete at the highest level of cycling while mentoring young professional riders on the right choices to make to ensure that the culture of cycling had changed."

That's all very well George, but what about the young professional riders of your era who had to give up on trying to make it as a pro because they had higher moral standards than you did?  Your 'we were all at it' defence stinks - no doubt there were those who chose not to dope but as m'learned crustacean friend points out, we've never heard of them because you and your doping mates made it impossible.

flyaway    pirate
11/10/2012 at 08:37

Bruyneel is more than "implicated", there is a 9 page section detailing the evidence against him. From the Reasoned Decision:

"The overwhelming evidence in this case is that Johan Bruyneel was intimately involved in all significant details of the U.S. Postal team’s doping program..... He was on top of the details for organizing blood transfusion programs before the
major Tours, and he knew when athletes needed to take EPO to regenerate their blood supply after extracting blood.  He was present when blood transfusions were given.  He even personally provided drugs to the riders on occasion.
Most perniciously, Johan Bruyneel learned how to introduce young men to performance enhancing drugs, becoming adept at leading them down the path from newly minted professional rider to veteran drug user"

seren nos yn canu    pirate
11/10/2012 at 09:46

I know nothing on how this all works.but it seems like everyone apart from Lance has admitted now to using drugs........

could this be linked to his healthcare bill............if he actually admits that he was taking them.but didn't disclose that at the time he was having all the cancer treatment etc...could the medical company demand he repays all the bills because he hid vital information from them that could have affected their assessment of paying the original bill...............I would think that would amount to millions over there

 

or am i totally off track on that one

11/10/2012 at 10:07

Seren. Several people who were in his room during cancer treatment have testified that he admitted to doctors in the room he had used epo, testosterone, growth hormone, corticosteroids etc.

He then said they were making it up and hounded them out of the game.

11/10/2012 at 10:10

doesn't look as if Nike have given up on LA yet - they're still supporting him via Livestrong - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nike-show-continued-support-for-armstrong-after-usada-report

Maybe Nike "think" they're distancing themselves from LA by choosing the Livestrong thing but frankly if they think that, they need to do a reality check.  

 

11/10/2012 at 10:19
Just finished the Hamilton book and found it a very balanced read far from the slam Lance from every angle rant that i feared i always took the hes never failed a test argument but after reading this, Big Georges confession and various other articles this week i personally am in no doubt Armstrong is up to his neck in it. He hasways come across as a bit of an arse and a bully but this saddens me to think i brought into the lie
Lets pray we are not having this conversation in 10 years time about Wiggo , Cav etc
11/10/2012 at 10:29

I think there are some cyclists who have raced clean through that era that we've heard of.   Everyone seems convinced Moncoutie has never taken banned substances - even Millar picks him out in his autobiography as someone that never gave in to that temptation.    No doubt there will be some others, and probably quite a few that did dabble but weren't habitual cheats, though I'm sure the majority were at it as part and parcel of the job.   

Seren - I don't think you are that far off track - not that he'll have to pay back medical bills but he made contracts and collected bonuses which were conditional on him not being doped - I don't follow it that closely as my interest is in the racing rather than the politics but I think he stands to have to pay millions and possibly even face criminal proceedings for fraud - maybe others can confirm that ?

Cheerful Dave    pirate
11/10/2012 at 10:40

Pops, one of the justifications USADA give for chasing him is that since his team was sponsored by US Postal, effectively he was receiving funding from the US taxpayers.  The postal service isn't entirely funded by taxpayers, but there was talk of trying to claim some of that back.

11/10/2012 at 11:02

Pops - When I said anyone you've ever heard of I was talking about people who know very little of cycling and have only heard of the Hollywood names...and get most of that knowledge from the BS that gets spouted from the corrupt mouths of those protecting the myth.  To be fair anyone with any knowledge realises there is a pretty clear understanding that Moncoutie was clean beyond reasonable doubt.  That's massive given the reasonable doubt (/clear evidence) that exists over so many others.

LA is probably worth over $100m.  I doubt he's that bothered about the cost of some cancer treatment.  He's more bothered about his legacy and the fact the whole Livestrong charade still makes him a lot of money via the blurring of the lines between the for profit and the not for profit sides.  Pretty sure he hires himself (.com) out to speak on cancer awareness and his private jet to get him there essentiallly from himself with money raised from the charitable side (.org).

Let's really not think that such a nasty piece of work and proven cheat and bully really isn't really going to be adverse to a bit of nest feathering.  Given what we now know and the lie we've all been sold do we really think he gives a flying fig about the public or right and wrong?

As you are.
 

flyaway    pirate
11/10/2012 at 11:04

Re: bonus etc:

Tailwind Sports (company co-owned by Armstrong that ran the USPS team) took out a contract with SCA Promotions, insuring themselves against the possibility of Postal (via Lance) winning the TdF multiple times. Lance's contract was such that if he won two more consectutive tours, he would get a $3million bonus, three tours and it was $6million, $10million for four.Tailwind paid $420,000 in what was part insurance premium, part bet.

In 2004, SCA got a bit suspicious cos of all the talk about doping and didnt want to pay the $5million bonus to LA himself. LA sued, and there was a hearing in 2005 (first time the Andreu's, LeMond and Armstrong were deposed). SCA eventually settled, as without the UCI removing the title, they were stuck in a legal loophole that technically, LA had won the TdF and they had to pay not only the $5million, but $2.5million in interest and fees.

If Armstrong is now stripped of those titles, I can see some executives being rather interested in attempting to recover some of that cash.

EDIT: meant to add, this information came from The Secret Race, but is part of what Daniel Coyle wrote, not Hamilton himself.

Edited: 11/10/2012 at 11:06
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