Lance folds on drug charges

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flyaway    pirate
11/10/2012 at 15:27

I think to have built such a public front of being a clean team, that he should have done some looking into Barry's past. No, quite obviously he should not have taken Barry's word for it. Barry could have consented to the UCI releasing stored blood samples from the past, which could have been privately analysed. He could have asked other people, who were already speaking out. He could have asked Landis, or Kimmage, for more details.

To stand at the head of a team and guarantee that that team is anti-doping, and to do so based ONLY on the word of your employees, is, IMO, foolish at best.

11/10/2012 at 15:45

one word - hindsight.

I don't disagree with you and no doubt Brailsford's probably chewing his nails over this and being the control freak he is, I suspect he will be asking some very hard questions of the current team.  he doesn't want to be tarred by this LA issue which is going to go stellar and many many names who have been below the radar, or not even thought to be involved, will be wondering what they are going to get implicated in.

I guess there may be an EPO production technician somewhere who is feeling guilty for their involvement in the whole scandal.

 

11/10/2012 at 15:46

If you were at USPS its virtually a bolt on certainty you juiced. see also Astana.

11/10/2012 at 15:48
Think Brailsford needs to give Alex Dowsett a quick clip round the ear after his comments on the BBC news at lunch time
11/10/2012 at 15:49

I think once LA has worked out how to get the most out of it he will come clean.  The next best thing after surviving a life threatening desease is redemption-it's worked for Millar.  It's just a matter of a) the numbers being right b) optimal revenge opportunity

When this happens and LA spills his guts the shit will really hit the fan and it will be thrown far and wide and not just within cycling.  I saw Dave Brailsford on the box last night and he did not look comfortable.

LA will have known this could happen to him one day, I wonder what plan B will be?

11/10/2012 at 16:00

I heard about Dowsett.... one eyebrow rose in a Roger Moore style.

11/10/2012 at 16:05

Dowsett's view is unsurprising given how he got in to cycling. The fact that he opened his mouth is He's going to get ripped a new one I suspect.

11/10/2012 at 16:08

Sometimes it is wiser to keep your thoughts to yourself. I imagine, as you say, that advice may be passed on to him fairly forcefully.

11/10/2012 at 16:15

Dowsett has since clarified his thoughts on twitter - he sounds much more reasonable now - to be fair to him he was probably asked for a snap reaction while he was lining up for the Tour of Beijing or something.  

And to be fair to Brailsford what's he supposed to do - he can't not employ people because he suspects they may have doped or somebody else says they did - they work on the basis they haven't been formally found to have doped and that their recent blood values look genuine - and it seems taking their word on it.   I'm sure he knows full well that Barry doped along with some of the others staff.   The dodgy one is Yates - he was involved with Armstrong until relatively recently and in a management capacity - but you could argue Armstrong offered him a way back into cycling when he didn't have other options.  

11/10/2012 at 16:17

Dowsett was just about to start stage 3 and he has clarified that he thinks what Lance has done is completely unacceptable. Brailsford is pretty good at typing with his hand up his riders butt

flyaway    pirate
11/10/2012 at 16:18
FB: but that's my point - there were years of "hindsight" to take advantage of, several opportunities to "learn a lesson". Everybody lies - so if you're putting your name to a guarantee, you damn well ought to do more than ask the guy who's going to lose his job if he responds in the affirmative. Now, doubts hang over everyone, and it's time for some honesty and patience (mentioning no names, just sideburns) in answering the questions - verbally, and through transparent testing - that will keep coming, and coming, because, as the saying goes, Cheat me once, shame on you - cheat me twice, shame on me. Suck it up, BC, and SHOW us you're clean until we are sick of being told.
11/10/2012 at 16:19

Enevitably this will all come full circle and you can see the beginning of it with Dowsett's comments along the lines of 'Lance couldn't have done this alone'.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point LA's people attempt to deflect the onslaught onto the UCI and others, even big business.

flyaway    pirate
11/10/2012 at 16:23
popsider wrote (see)

And to be fair to Brailsford what's he supposed to do - he can't not employ people because he suspects they may have doped or somebody else says they did

Yes, yes he can. He can NOT hire people over whom there is suspicion, because time and time again, there has been no smoke without fire. He hires someone new, and clean, instead. That was a perfectly acceptable option. He put his head in the sand two years ago, cos he didnt want to know.

11/10/2012 at 16:28

FA i disagree strongly with you. Two years ago Barry said he did not cheat and there was no evidence to say that he did. It is encumbent upon the governing body to find cheats. Were Brailsford to go on some kind of witchhunt at that time he himself would have been accused of unfairness and inequality.

I really don't buy this whole no smoke without fire argument. That can be so badly abused in all walks of life.

flyaway    pirate
11/10/2012 at 16:51
Well, we can disagree, then. There was evidence, Landis was talking. The resultant investigations turned up more. It's not really a shock to discover that if you don't bother pursuing something, you don't find out what you'd rather not know.

And are you suggesting it's "incumbent on" the UCI (governing body) to find the cheats???!!! Ha ha ha ha ha...... Man, that's funny!
11/10/2012 at 17:00

" He hires someone new, and clean, instead."

and there is the nub of Brailsford's dilemma - who could he trust to be clean??  If he wanted experience - and he clearly did - then whoever he hired would have come from a culture of doping teams, unless he absolutley knew their pedigree as he did with the likes of Wiggo, Cav, Thomas et al who had come through the GB track squads so he could pretty well guarantee they were fine.  But others??  He would have to rely on their, or his advisors, words.    Sure, he could have gone out and hired a much younger rider who could be pretty well guaranteed to be clean, but at the expense of weakening the squad - and he was out to win, simple as, not develop.  It was a risk strategy that Brailsford had to adopt and something that was alien to a non-risk taker as he is, so he had to compromise - and it's bitten him on the arse sadly.  I bet he won't do that again.    And if I was Yates, or Sutton, or Julich who are on his management team - I'd be fearing some tongue lashing and my job as they all come from a drug culture era.  How far can he now trust them??

 

11/10/2012 at 17:19

I dont dispute DB was caught on the horns of a dilemma. But rumours about Barry had been doing the rounds lets be honest. For what MB brought to the party he could have played safer.  

I also realise that any DS/ management dudes are likely to have come from an era of cera, and it would be very hard to find guaranteed clean team management. Lets face it   Cav and Zabel. Cav and Aldag. Wiggins and Cofodis, in fact anyone apart from Moncoutie and Cofodis.

Its a toughie. I understand DBs position. But management arent out there riding. Barry was, and he (DB) chose to ignore the rumours. It wouldnt be an issue at Garmin say, who set their team up to be clean clean clean, but have signed previous dopers. Its the fact that sky bang on about a no drugs policy (wouldnt sign Millar for instance) but took a less than calculated risk on a nigh on finished rider with lots of suspicion around him who came from a team who were all dirty.

11/10/2012 at 17:29

what we don't know Mr B is who else DB was courting at the time he signed Barry - maybe he had other options he would have preferred, but he was unable to get their signature for whatever reason, so chose to go with his 3rd, 4th, whatever'th choice as perhaps Barry was.  DB needed to get a winning team put together so he had to make compromises but that's the nature of any business - you never know until the race is over if you made the right choice

as you say, it's a toughie - DB was to an extent damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

12/10/2012 at 12:04

If this didn't involve LA would it have made such news?

In every sport the teams, players, coach's, doctors are trying to invent the next best way to win and then governing bodies, drug testers, rule makers are always playing catch up.

 

flyaway    pirate
12/10/2012 at 12:22

If it didnt involve Lance? You mean if it didnt involve a decade of negated race results? If it didnt involve federal, and national crimes? If it didnt involve systematic bullying and the ruination of several people's careers? If it hadnt been denied over and over and over? If it hadnt come down to lawsuits? If journalists weren't sued over it?

Well, no, then probably not. If he hadnt doped, you probably wouldnt know who Lance was - pre-cancer he wasnt really all that hot. 

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